Article: Playoffs Or Bust?: Molitor's Murky Future

[Doomtints]

I would not be upset if Molitor sticks around. I think he is terrible at managing pitching but who the hell am I.

 

However, I would keep him on 1-year contracts because, like it or not, there are questions marks. He still has to prove himself, even 3 years in. If he won't accept that, I would let him walk.

[kusko_andy]

It's not like Jake will have a bunch of really tough decisions to make about his brother.  You think Joe will get pissed if he has to sit vs. a lefty every so often?  

 

Still, I think Doug M is my favorite candidate.  

[Doomtints]

Just say no to internal options. Hire the best, and the best can't be found within the organization.

 

I feel like the "Cheap people we already know and want to support" ship has sailed.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Doomtints

[Mr. Brooks]

It's not like Jake will have a bunch of really tough decisions to make about his brother. You think Joe will get pissed if he has to sit vs. a lefty every so often?

 

Still, I think Doug M is my favorite candidate.

And even if Joe doesn't like it, Jake is the older brother.

 

From someone with younger brothers, it's not going to bother Jake one bit to irritate his little bro.

[Thrylos]

About time the Twins have a younger manager who comes from a winning culture, understands the concept of win probability and the situational things that kill it (bunting, hitting and running etc), can get the best from his players by playing to their strengths (eg. Buxton's SB attempts compared to his speed is pathetic), understanding the concept of leverage while utilizing the pen, and be critical of his coaches.

 

That is not Molitor.

 

Allen would be fired by any other team after last season, and the pitching has not improved this season.  Molitor did not make the correct decision about him, as well.

 

He needs to go.  And I don't care whether he is from St. Paul or St. Maarten

[Mike Sixel]

 

I honestly can't.
Not trying to be snide, I just really fail to see how two professional adults would have a problem being objective.

I could see in a field like military, or firefighting, when a supervisor might have to choose someone to send into harms way. But in a profession like baseball, I just don't see it.

 

huh. well, bias happens every day in work, conscious or not. friends, people you don't like, people that you don't know.......and conflicts happen. And imagine all the second guessing from others on every move about Joe (including, most importantly, the rest of the team). It isn't just how they act, but how everyone else thinks they are acting. This is super, super, common in business, to have issues with how teams perceive a manager treats another team member, imagine how it would be with a relative. I mean, this is management 101 stuff that you have to think about every day with a team.

[Reider]

I don't think a playoffs or bust ultimatum is fair to Molitor, when the team is on the cusp of a possible wild card spot or better and Derek Falvey trades away a starting pitcher and the closer.

[chpettit19]

While Win-Loss record is the easiest way for the average person to judge a manager I don't think it's what's going to matter to Falvey and Levine. They're analytics people and this teams analytics are not great. As the original article here states, the Twins have been outscored by 50 runs this year, which is good enough for 21st in the majors and 4th in the division. They've been quite successful in 1 run games, but one would expect that to regress to the mean next year and the Win-Loss record would reflect that. The front office's job is to take a big picture approach and be realistic about where this team is at. That's why they quickly flipped to sellers at the deadline when it was clear the Twins couldn't hang with the elite teams they'd be facing in the playoffs. 

​When it comes to making a decision on Molitor I'm sure a big part of it will come down to how well he aligns with their thought processes. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that Falvey and Levine cringe every time Molitor bunts and wastes an out. Molitor appears to still have quite a bit of an "old school" approach to the game and I'm not sure that mixes well with the approach of this front office. I'm not sure what he bases his lineups on, but if the, seemingly, constant tweaking is based on anything other than numbers I'd be willing to guess that the front office doesn't really agree with that either. 

​I, personally, don't think Molitor is the right manager for this team, but as many others have said, I don't know enough to be 100% confident in that position. I'd enjoy seeing a more "21st century" style of play from the manager and wouldn't be surprised at all if the front office makes a move to a guy who approaches the game differently than Molitor. I don't think Molitor kills this team by being manager, but I also don't think his game strategies make them the best team possible. Overachieving Win-Loss record or not.

[chpettit19]

 

huh. well, bias happens every day in work, conscious or not. friends, people you don't like, people that you don't know.......and conflicts happen. And imagine all the second guessing from others on every move about Joe (including, most importantly, the rest of the team). It isn't just how they act, but how everyone else thinks they are acting. This is super, super, common in business, to have issues with how teams perceive a manager treats another team member, imagine how it would be with a relative. I mean, this is management 101 stuff that you have to think about every day with a team.

Totally agree that outsiders, and other players on the club, would have doubts in the back of their minds about why decisions are being made about Joe by his brother. I don't think that Jake would consciously make decisions based off Joe being his brother, though. And I think plenty of people already question decisions being made about Joe right now and for the last number of years as he declines but continues to hit in the heart of the order. That is something the powers that be would need to take into consideration, but if all their other assessments point to Jake being the best possible candidate to help this team succeed then you can't let the doubts of some outsiders stop you from making that move. If it's a close call then those doubts could swing things against Jake. But you don't pass up on the most talented candidate because of that. I don't believe Jake is head and shoulders above others, but just in general, you take the best candidate because talent is still talent.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just say no to internal options. Hire the best, and the best can't be found within the organization.

 

I feel like the "Cheap people we already know and want to support" ship has sailed.

I might be okay with Glynn but would prefer an outside candidate.

[Mr. Brooks]

huh. well, bias happens every day in work, conscious or not. friends, people you don't like, people that you don't know.......and conflicts happen. And imagine all the second guessing from others on every move about Joe (including, most importantly, the rest of the team). It isn't just how they act, but how everyone else thinks they are acting. This is super, super, common in business, to have issues with how teams perceive a manager treats another team member, imagine how it would be with a relative. I mean, this is management 101 stuff that you have to think about every day with a team.

Well I guess every group is different.

I've brought 2 different family members aboard in the 7 years that I've owned my business and the only awkwardness it brought was remembering to call my father by his name while on the job.

 

Like I said, it depends how professional those involved are. If you are open, honest and fair 100% of the time, your team will never doubt your intentions.

 

If someone is not a good leader, well, in that case it won't matter, they'll fail either way.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well I guess every group is different.
I've brought 2 different family members aboard in the 7 years that I've owned my business and the only awkwardness it brought was remembering to call my father by his name while on the job.

Like I said, it depends how professional those involved are. If you are open, honest and fair 100% of the time, your team will never doubt your intentions.

If someone is not a good leader, well, in that case it won't matter, they'll fail either way.

 

You can't see how that is different in a small, family owned business, vs a very public company like a baseball team? And yes, we have very different experiences. In all 4 places I've worked over the last 30 years, people questioned moves of management. Over and over. Nearly every week in some companies. But then, I work with dozens and dozens of management types and their people.

[chpettit19]

 

You can't see how that is different in a small, family owned business, vs a very public company like a baseball team? And yes, we have very different experiences. In all 4 places I've worked over the last 30 years, people questioned moves of management. Over and over. Nearly every week in some companies. But then, I work with dozens and dozens of management types and their people.

That's not quite apples to apples there. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you or I or anyone outside the clubhouse questions the managers moves. If Jake is open and honest with the other 24 guys on the roster that's all that matters. If "random scout A" or "season ticket salesman B" questions Jake or anyone else in a management position who cares? The manager's job is to get the best out of the 25 guys on the roster at any given time.

A lot of this, I assume, is based off the idea that Jake would continue hitting Joe in the heart of the order. What if Jake comes in and tells Joe he's hitting 7th cuz he's just not fit to hit 3rd anymore? Would there be concern then? As long as the manager is clear with his bosses and the team on why he's doing things the rest shouldn't matter. So it really is more like a small, family owned business in that sense.

[Major League Ready]

 

huh. well, bias happens every day in work, conscious or not. friends, people you don't like, people that you don't know.......and conflicts happen. And imagine all the second guessing from others on every move about Joe (including, most importantly, the rest of the team). It isn't just how they act, but how everyone else thinks they are acting. This is super, super, common in business, to have issues with how teams perceive a manager treats another team member, imagine how it would be with a relative. I mean, this is management 101 stuff that you have to think about every day with a team.

 

Could not agree more.  Why make a move with significant potential to create a problem.  If they really want Jake Mauer, craft a plan to put him in that seat in 2019. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Major Leauge Ready

[Major League Ready]

 

That's not quite apples to apples there. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you or I or anyone outside the clubhouse questions the managers moves. If Jake is open and honest with the other 24 guys on the roster that's all that matters. If "random scout A" or "season ticket salesman B" questions Jake or anyone else in a management position who cares? The manager's job is to get the best out of the 25 guys on the roster at any given time.

A lot of this, I assume, is based off the idea that Jake would continue hitting Joe in the heart of the order. What if Jake comes in and tells Joe he's hitting 7th cuz he's just not fit to hit 3rd anymore? Would there be concern then? As long as the manager is clear with his bosses and the team on why he's doing things the rest shouldn't matter. So it really is more like a small, family owned business in that sense.

 

Your family business is not constantly scrutinized by the media and your decisions are also not discussed on the internet by thousands of people who think they know how to run the business better than you do.  You don't have public figures for employees and I doubt the minimum salary of your employees is in excess of $500K.  There is nothing about managing a major league professional sports team that is more like a small, family owned business.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Major Leauge Ready

[Mr. Brooks]

You can't see how that is different in a small, family owned business, vs a very public company like a baseball team? And yes, we have very different experiences. In all 4 places I've worked over the last 30 years, people questioned moves of management. Over and over. Nearly every week in some companies. But then, I work with dozens and dozens of management types and their people.

I think a 25 man, plus a few coaches, locker room, is actually much more akin to a small family business than it is a corporate structure.

 

I think in this case it wouldn't be an issue, and not even a little bit, IMO.

 

If Joe was an up and comer, then maybe I could see a problem, but at this point in his career - he's made his money, he's had a full career.

Im just struggling to see a specific (people have only given vague, general feelings) decision that could cause an issue.

 

In baseball, the stats are there for everyone to see, so I think it's a lot easier for everyone to be mostly on the same page, without second guessing ("what does the boss see in this guy that nobody else does").

 

Most of these guys have played for Jake at one time or another. If he's the leader that everyone raves about, I just don't think it would be an issue.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I think Jake has always had aspirations to be an MLB manager.

That being the case, I don't think he would stay in our organization this long if he got the feeling he would always be a non candidate as long as Joe is here.

[Mr. Brooks]

Your family business is not constantly scrutinized by the media and your decisions are also not discussed on the internet by thousands of people who think they know how to run the business better than you do. You don't have public figures for employees and I doubt the minimum salary of your employees is in excess of $500K. There is nothing about managing a major league professional sports team that is more like a small, family owned business.

Well most of those things have nothing to do with whether there would be a conflict of interest or not.

Example: You don't make decisions based on what fan forums are saying, that's just noise.

[chpettit19]

 

Your family business is not constantly scrutinized by the media and your decisions are also not discussed on the internet by thousands of people who think they know how to run the business better than you do.  You don't have public figures for employees and I doubt the minimum salary of your employees is in excess of $500K.  There is nothing about managing a major league professional sports team that is more like a small, family owned business.

Managing a professional baseball team involves dealing with 25 players and a handful of coaches. That's a small business. Every manager in baseball is scrutinized by the media and fans. If you can't handle that then you weren't the person for the job in the first place. To suggest that Jake Mauer shouldn't be hired simply because his brother is on the team is to suggest that Jake Mauer couldn't manage 25 players and a handful of coaches and their opinions about him and his brother. That is managing a small business with a family member involved, not running a corporation. The manager is not the president of baseball operations or GM or owner or any of that. His job is simply to get the best out of the 25 players he has.

​This article and message board is literally based around us questioning the current manager of the Twins. A number of people on this site question the use of Joe Mauer already. If Falvey and Levine are going to make all their decisions on hires, fires, signings, etc. based off what the media and fans say and not what they've decided is the best answer then it's time for a new front office already.

[yarnivek1972]

Cal Ripken Sr managed Jr for a year or so - in Ripken's prime. I'm not sure this would be any different. The only difference is that there are more "talking heads" out there than now. btw, not really advocating for Jake. Just consider the "conflict" to be a non-issue.

[USAFChief]

I think it's pretty much guaranteed that Mauer managing Mauer will result in uncomfortable situations for both of them, and be a subject of constant discussion.  

 

Not my team, but I wouldn't do that.  Too much potential for trouble, inside and outside the organization.

 

[Monkeypaws]

As a Minnesotan, I like the cool, calm demeanor of Molitor. Makes him seem more cerebral than he is, when I listen to him talk.

 

I want a players' guy. Maybe that's Dougie M. I don't like Molitor's short leash for young players, although it has turned a rebuild season not a contention season.

 

Hell, what do I know....

 

Pretty hard to let him go if this season continues to trend positively.

[Thrylos]

 

They've been quite successful in 1 run games, but one would expect that to regress to the mean next year

 

There is no mean for 1-run games win % to regress towards.  It is not BABIP, HR/FB, or LOB%

 

Good teams win close games.  Bad teams lose them.  That's that.  No regression.

[Thrylos]

 

Cal Ripken Sr managed Jr for a year or so - in Ripken's prime

 

He managed both his sons in that team.   As a matter of fact so did Sandy Alomar, albeit in the minors.

 

I just don't get that much sensitive, esp. for a team that drafts and keeps around sons and nephews of managers and coaches without merit.

[Major League Ready]

 

Managing a professional baseball team involves dealing with 25 players and a handful of coaches. That's a small business. Every manager in baseball is scrutinized by the media and fans. If you can't handle that then you weren't the person for the job in the first place. To suggest that Jake Mauer shouldn't be hired simply because his brother is on the team is to suggest that Jake Mauer couldn't manage 25 players and a handful of coaches and their opinions about him and his brother. That is managing a small business with a family member involved, not running a corporation. The manager is not the president of baseball operations or GM or owner or any of that. His job is simply to get the best out of the 25 players he has.

​This article and message board is literally based around us questioning the current manager of the Twins. A number of people on this site question the use of Joe Mauer already. If Falvey and Levine are going to make all their decisions on hires, fires, signings, etc. based off what the media and fans say and not what they've decided is the best answer then it's time for a new front office already.

 

This is not only a different context, it’s a different discussion.  The number of direct reports is completely irrelevant to the question of … Is the Minnesota Twins Organization more like a small business or a large / high profile business.   If I manage a small group at Exxon, is that like a small business.  Perhaps you meant to make a different point but the size of the group managed is simply not relevant to the stature or type of business.

[DJSim22]

Ozzie Guillen for entertainment purposes.

[Kwak]

The Twins went "outside" to redirect their organization, this trend should continue.  The "old gang" created the mess continue the change.  The public is looking for excitement--not "hope". The "ya never know" mentality has been worn-out.  The new standard in professional sports is the "super team"--and that's what will be needed to create the requisite excitement.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Would 2017 have been so surprising if 2016 hadn't been so bad? (Surprising in the wrong direction)

 

Feels like Molitor is getting credit based on the low expectations for which he should share the blame.

[Mr. Brooks]

There is no mean for 1-run games win % to regress towards. It is not BABIP, HR/FB, or LOB%

 

Good teams win close games. Bad teams lose them. That's that. No regression.

I think this is backwards actually.

I think good teams and bad teams are typically right around .500 in close games, but good teams blow teams out more often than they get blown out.

[DocBauer]

The Twins went "outside" to redirect their organization, this trend should continue.  The "old gang" created the mess continue the change.  The public is looking for excitement--not "hope". The "ya never know" mentality has been worn-out.  The new standard in professional sports is the "super team"--and that's what will be needed to create the requisite excitement.

 

Not sure I can concur. Molitor did play with the Twins, and did serve as an instructor with the Twins, but he also played for Toronto, worked with Seattle and was a lifetime Brewer. I'm just not sure he qualifies as "old gang." I think he's a really good Basball man, and the debate is still whether he is the RIGHT MAN for the future.

[USAFChief]

Another really...questionable job of managing a bullpen tonight.  Pulls Busenitz to let Boshers face two LHers (which I can understand), then after Boshers retires neither of the LHers, lets Boshers give up a 3 run jack to a RH hitter.

 

Terrible.  If you're pulling Busenitz to get through the inning, then there is no way Boshers faces a RH hitter with 2 on.  

 

No. Way.