Article: Playoffs Or Bust?: Molitor's Murky Future

[Mr. Brooks]

"The complainers" he says about anyone who dare question a strategic move by the manager.

 

A perfectly legit criticism, mind you, based on Boshers career platoon splits.

[USAFChief]

The people here can set up all of the no win scenarios they want on Molitor.   At time when behind Molitor uses his lower leverage relievers about 20 pitches each sort of like a bullpen session.  The complainers here have yet to post who was warmed up in the bullpen in the event that Boshers did not get 1 of 2 lefthand hitters out.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't consider "failure to look two hitters ahead" to be a compelling defense. I don't remember if there was a RHer warmed or not, but either way it's no excuse for Boshers giving up a 3 run jack.

 

And I DO know there was at least one RHer available, because Pressly pitched later that night. In an 8-1 game, which is another point not in Molitors favor.

[drjim]

 

"The complainers" he says about anyone who dare question a strategic move by the manager.

A perfectly legit criticism, mind you, based on Boshers career platoon splits.

 

It's fine criticism, but trying to steal an extra out or two with a lefty when behind is really not a bad move either. This is especially true considering the talent of the options, he wasn't exactly leaving shutdown guys on the bench.

[drjim]

 

Call me crazy, but I don't consider "failure to look two hitters ahead" to be a compelling defense. I don't remember if there was a RHer warmed or not, but either way it's no excuse for Boshers giving up a 3 run jack.

And I DO know there was at least one RHer available, because Pressly pitched later that night. In an 8-1 game, which is another point not in Molitors favor.

 

Molitor followed your advice today, didn't exactly work out either.

[USAFChief]

It's fine criticism, but trying to steal an extra out or two with a lefty when behind is really not a bad move either. This is especially true considering the talent of the options, he wasn't exactly leaving shutdown guys on the bench.

It was 3-1 Jim, in a fairly important game. With a pen coming off an off day. That's a bad move.

[drjim]

 

It was 3-1 Jim, in a fairly important game. With a pen coming off an off day. That's a bad move.

 

Sure, and he did the exact sequence you called for and had the same result. I think he is kind of no win with the talent he has.

[USAFChief]

Molitor followed your advice today, didn't exactly work out either.

Seriously?

 

You're better than this, Jim.

 

He doesn't have great options, but that doesn't excuse not using the ones he has in the best possible manner. In fact, just the opposite. He needs to try to squeeze every ounce out of what few options he has.

 

I won't fault him for Pressly not getting a job done, if Pressly is the best option. Boshers wasn't.

[drjim]

 

Sure, and he did the exact sequence you called for and had the same result. I think he is kind of no win with the talent he has.

 

And to build on that, while he did have an off day, I don't think he would manage for an off day the next day, thinking he has two more games against this team, which are also important games. He can't blow his arms in the first game. Trying to steal an out or two when trailing is defensible.

[USAFChief]

And to build on that, while he did have an off day, I don't think he would manage for an off day the next day, thinking he has two more games against this team, which are also important games. He can't blow his arms in the first game. Trying to steal an out or two when trailing is defensible.

Jim...he used a Pressly that night anyway.

[drjim]

 

Seriously?

You're better than this, Jim.

He doesn't have great options, but that doesn't excuse not using the ones he has in the best possible manner. In fact, just the opposite. He needs to try to squeeze every ounce out of what few options he has.

I won't fault him for Pressly not getting a job done, if Pressly is the best option. Boshers wasn't.

 

What are you talking about? 

 

We had basically the same sequence play out twice, he tried both ways of navigating it, and they both blew up. Doesn't that tell us something?

[Mr. Brooks]

It's fine criticism, but trying to steal an extra out or two with a lefty when behind is really not a bad move either. This is especially true considering the talent of the options, he wasn't exactly leaving shutdown guys on the bench.

Sure, that's a fair stance.

What's not fair is old nurse's stance that it's not even a worthy criticism. That it's so far from a valid critique, that anyone who even brings it up is just a complainer.

 

I guess every thread should just be a bunch of people simultaneously applauding every single move the manager and FO make, I bet that would pull in a ton of traffic to a discussion board.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Mr. Brooks

[drjim]

 

Jim...he used a Pressly that night anyway.

 

He had to use someone after Boshers didn't get enough outs. I do think if he knew the result he would have pulled Boshers earlier.

[Mr. Brooks]

What are you talking about?

 

We had basically the same sequence play out twice, he tried both ways of navigating it, and they both blew up. Doesn't that tell us something?

Sometimes the right move doesn't work.

In fact, in baseball, it often doesn't work.

If you pinch hit Sano for Gimenez and he strikes out, that doesn't prove it was the wrong move.

[drjim]

 

Sure, that's a fair stance.
What's not fair is old nurse's stance that it's not even a worthy criticism. That it's so far from a valid certiorari critique, that anyone who even brings it up is just a complainer.

I guess every thread should just be a bunch of people simultaneously apparition every single move the manager and FO make, I bet that would pull in a ton of traffic to a discussion board.

 

I won't defend the words of the other poster, I'm not especially interested in that type of parsing or trying to control specific debate. I quite enjoy bullpen usage debate.

 

It is a fair criticism, but probably does need to be balanced with the fact that the move that was criticized was remedied today yet had the same result.

 

I personally don't think it's a terrible use of a loogy.

[yarnivek1972]

It's fine criticism, but trying to steal an extra out or two with a lefty when behind is really not a bad move either. This is especially true considering the talent of the options, he wasn't exactly leaving shutdown guys on the bench.

Molitor wasn't trying to steal an extra out. He brought in Boshers to get one out. Specifically, one lefty.

 

The bottom line is that Molitor either should have let Busenitz finish the inning if he felt the game was already unwinnable or he should not have allowed Boshers to face Jackson if he felt the game was winnable. Either way, it was a bad decision.

[old nurse]

 

Isn't it Molitor's job to make sure someone is ready if that scenario plays out?

If you repeatedly have a pitcher warmed up just in case you will blow through your pullpen every day because it is not common practice to repeatedly warm up a pitcher. . No win scenarios for the manager.

[yarnivek1972]

If you repeatedly have a pitcher warmed up just in case you will blow through your pullpen every day because it is not common practice to repeatedly warm up a pitcher. . No win scenarios for the manager.

The flaw in that logic is that Boshers shouldn't be facing a RHB in a close game anyway. Someone else should be preparing to face Jackson. Either that inning or in the next. So, that pitcher you have warming eventually will be brought in.

 

Managers that are good managing bullpens figure this stuff out without much trouble.

[drjim]

The flaw in that logic is that Boshers shouldn't be facing a RHB in a close game anyway. Someone else should be preparing to face Jackson. Either that inning or in the next. So, that pitcher you have warming eventually will be brought in.

 

Managers that are good managing bullpens figure this stuff out without much trouble.

Your last sentence refers to no actual manager. Shadow any other fan forum for a couple weeks.

[USAFChief]

Your last sentence refers to no actual manager. Shadow any other fan forum for a couple weeks.

That's completely unfair. Lots of managers find a way to limit their LOOGYs exposure to RH hitters in high leverage situations. You've never seen a team have more than one reliever up in the pen? Make more than one pitching change in an inning?

[yarnivek1972]

Your last sentence refers to no actual manager. Shadow any other fan forum for a couple weeks.

Fine. Tom Kelly, and about 1000 other guys that have figured out that a guy that can't get RHB out shouldn't be facing them in leverage situations. The list of guys that have figured this out is a lot longer than the list of those who have not.

 

PS: Do not tell me what to do.

Edited August 18, 2017 by yarnivek1972

[old nurse]

 

That's completely unfair. Lots of managers find a way to limit their LOOGYs exposure to RH hitters in high leverage situations. You've never seen a team have more than one reliever up in the pen? Make more than one pitching change in an inning?

The leverage  index when Boshered entered was 0.33. Low leverage.

[old nurse]

 

 

Fine. Tom Kelly, and about 1000 other guys that have figured out that a guy that can't get RHB out shouldn't be facing them in leverage situations. The list of guys that have figured this out is a lot longer than the list of those who have not.

PS: Do not tell me what to do.

Although every situation is a leveraged situation, 0.33 is low leverage

[yarnivek1972]

Although every situation is a leveraged situation, 0.33 is low leverage

Is that a season number for Boshers? Because I don't happen to believe a two run game with two on in the 7th is low leverage.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The leverage index when Boshered entered was 0.33. Low leverage.

The leverage index when Jackson batted with 2 runners on was 1.30. Above average leverage.

[old nurse]

 

The leverage index when Jackson batted with 2 runners on was 1.30. Above average leverage.

For the chance for Cleveland to win the game.

[old nurse]

 

 

Is that a season number for Boshers? Because I don't happen to believe a two run game with two on in the 7th is low leverage.

Believe what you want. Learn to look it up.

[yarnivek1972]

The leverage index when Jackson batted with 2 runners on was 1.30. Above average leverage.

Exactly. Not a sutuation in which Boshers should be facing a RHB.

[yarnivek1972]

Believe what you want. Learn to look it up.

You are the one who posted the number. Perhaps try stating what your number represents?

[old nurse]

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/li/

 

Edit: you can find Fangraphs' description of LI at this link.

[Kwak]

The bickering about the use of Boshers...  This bullpen is full of losers,  Keep tossing a new RP in the game and you'll find one.  Sure Boshers got nailed--but I've seen him get two consecutive outs with two on in a close game not long ago.  This bullpen is a crapshoot--literally!  Put better players on the team!  But also remember the other teams use professional players too--sometimes they will succeed and even faced by a pitched who is also RH.