Park or Polka... Pick your Poison... Vargas should be DFAd... asaP

[jokin]

When Molly pinch hit for Vargas in the 7th, I immediately spoke up and noted that although he was Playing the Percentages vs. the lefty- the skiPPer had now forfeited a potential chance for Vargas vs. Hererra in the 9th.

 

I like Escobar, but certainly not as a pinch hitter or designated hitter- in what world does a utility player double as the team's catch-all strategic pinch hitter and part-time DH? Especially considering what Vargas had just done in the previous game.

 

Seriously, since it seems that the manager doesn't think much of Vargas's potential to contribute to the team, they may as well move on from Kennys and bring up Park or Polka on Monday.

[Otto von Ballpark]

We'll actually need another startin pitcher Monday, so it might be more likely that Vargas is optioned for that. Although that starter could be exchanged for a position player on Tuesday (but Mejia could need a permanent spot too, he is only the 26th man today).

[jokin]

Yep. They Twins kinda/sorta screwed that one up too. Why didn't they just reschedule the rainout with KC for a Split DH during Labor Day weekend?--- Expanded roster, bigger gate potential, straightened out pitching rotation (hopefully).

[stringer bell]

I don't think the Twins screwed this up at all except the scheduling part, which was predicated by the vote of the players to not have a split doubleheader. They get Meíja for free (26th man-he can be optioned and recalled for his next start), so that they can keep an eight-man bullpen. If they get rained out in Baltimore tomorrow, they have starters lined up on regular rest. If they play, Gibson for one of the relievers or maybe Vargas, I guess.

 

I don't like the Escobar for Vargas move much for two reasons. One is small sample size, but I will grant Molitor has seen much more of these guys and knows who is swinging well lefty or righty and who isn't and the second part is that I think Escobar is most likely to hit a homer when he's just trying to make contact. Putting him in as a pinch hitter pretty much asks him to hit one out.

[yarnivek1972]

When Molly pinch hit for Vargas in the 7th, I immediately spoke up and noted that although he was Playing the Percentages vs. the lefty- the skiPPer had now forfeited a potential chance for Vargas vs. Hererra in the 9th.

 

I like Escobar, but certainly not as a pinch hitter or designated hitter- in what world does a utility player double as the team's catch-all strategic pinch hitter and part-time DH? Especially considering what Vargas had just done in the previous game.

 

Seriously, since it seems that the manager doesn't think much of Vargas's potential to contribute to the team, they may as well move on from Kennys and bring up Park or Polka on Monday.

Better idea: fire Paul Molitor. I'm pretty sure Falvey didn't put Vargas on the roster for Paulie to pinch hit his utility infielder for him.

[Dozier's Glorious Hair]

 

Better idea: fire Paul Molitor. I'm pretty sure Falvey didn't put Vargas on the roster for Paulie to pinch hit his utility infielder for him.

 

The Twins are currently on pace to win 89 games in 2017, a 30-game improvement from the year before. They're even in 1st place in their division. Then again, the team's manager did pinch hit one okay-but-not-great hitter for another okay-but-not-great hitter, SO OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!

 

I like Vargas, but let's not pretend he's Harmon Killebrew. And while we're at it, let's not pretend Escobar is Danny Santana.   

[jokin]

 

 

The Twins are currently on pace to win 89 games in 2017, a 30-game improvement from the year before. They're even in 1st place in their division. Then again, the team's manager did pinch hit one okay-but-not-great hitter for another okay-but-not-great hitter, SO OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!

 

I like Vargas, but let's not pretend he's Harmon Killebrew. And while we're at it, let's not pretend Escobar is Danny Santana.   

 

Objects in post may be closer (or farther) apart than you think...

 

Vargas OPS+ 108 (2017) 103 (career) 68 (as PH)

Escobar OPS+ 94 (2017) 87 (career) 43 (as PH)

Santana OPS+ 60 (2017) 87 (career) 55 (as PH)

[DJSim22]

I've seen nothing from Palka or Park to suggest they will be some sort of everyday DH in the bigs.  They look like a little bit better versions of ABW from afar to me.

[Darius]

Escobar has been pretty good from the right side, has some pop, and you don't know if another situation is going to come around. Vargas is anemic from the right side.

 

I see the point, but I thought there were worse moves in that game:

 

Letting Wilk go out for the 8th after getting it back to 1 was a bad move. I said as much before the home run. It may well have worked out OK just the same. But for me, I burn one of my high leverage guys there. Second game be damned. You can't plan ahead like that.

 

Pinch hitting Grossman for Buxton is ridiculous. Buxton is supposed to be a franchise cornerstone, and has been very good over the last few weeks. At one point in May, before hitting another little mini-skid, he was hitting something like .333/.440/.500 for the month. Grossman has been alright, but you have to let Buxton go there.

 

I know this isn't Paul's decision. I'm sure it's not even Falvey's decision. But, for the love of God, why do they keep running Hughes out there every 5th day? Today was brutal. The worst offensive team in basball banged him around the yard like they were murderer's row. You can find better starters walking the street right now.

 

They threw that first game away today, and that irks me. If we look back at the end of the year, and they're 2-3 games out of a wildcard, you can look at games like today as the difference.

 

I'm by no means calling for Paul's head, here. I actually like him for the most part. I think I was one of only handful around here who wanted to stick with him last year.

[David HK]

 

Better idea: fire Paul Molitor. I'm pretty sure Falvey didn't put Vargas on the roster for Paulie to pinch hit his utility infielder for him.

I'm not saying off with his head for this decision alone, but-  but Gawd Awmightie, it's just another in the long, long, line of 'WTF can Molly possibly be thinking' kind of decisions.  I've been tired of those kinds of things for 2 years now.

[jokin]

 

I don't think the Twins screwed this up at all except the scheduling part, which was predicated by the vote of the players to not have a split doubleheader. They get Meíja for free (26th man-he can be optioned and recalled for his next start), so that they can keep an eight-man bullpen. If they get rained out in Baltimore tomorrow, they have starters lined up on regular rest. If they play, Gibson for one of the relievers or maybe Vargas, I guess.

 

I don't like the Escobar for Vargas move much for two reasons. One is small sample size, but I will grant Molitor has seen much more of these guys and knows who is swinging well lefty or righty and who isn't and the second part is that I think Escobar is most likely to hit a homer when he's just trying to make contact. Putting him in as a pinch hitter pretty much asks him to hit one out.

 

I don't know the rules on doubleheader "democracy". How often do the players have veto power on split doubleheaders? Playing a doubleheader early in September makes financial and competitive sense. The rotation is in a shambles right now.

 

What is the line on who throws tomorrow night?

 

Since you mention Baltimore weather for the series opener, have the Twins built an advanced statistical model on rainout probabilities and playing the odds that a Monday night washout is bankable? They already used up their long RP today- so no bullpen game tomorrow.

[Darius]

I've seen nothing from Palka or Park to suggest they will be some sort of everyday DH in the bigs. They look like a little bit better versions of ABW from afar to me.

Serious question....have you actually seen them play?

 

I mean, Park was the team's best player for a month last year before his wrist injury. He has some of the longest HRs in Target Field history, IIRC. He would have been very useful off the bench in that first game today when the Twins needed a long ball off of a lefty.

 

I wanted Park to get a shot to start the season. If he can show he can stay healthy, and keep hitting at AAA, there is no reason why he shouldn't get a shot.

 

I can't speak for Palka. Hardly seen the guy play, and mainly have just box-score watched since he arrived.

[drivlikejehu]

Park has a .713 OPS in AAA. He's not going to be in Minnesota any time soon. Palka isn't much better.

[jokin]

 

 

I've seen nothing from Palka or Park to suggest they will be some sort of everyday DH in the bigs.  They look like a little bit better versions of ABW from afar to me.

 

Exactly. I'm right with you- the Twins are in a most unenviable position of picking their poison.

 

They clearly have little interest in increasing Vargas's role, Escobar, although occasionally streaky hot, is just above Futility level at the plate overall, and it's highly likely that Park or Palka would fall flat on their face given 200+ PAs.

 

Curious that everyone is ragging on Vargas's lack of production from the right side of the plate as THE REASON for his limited PAs, and yet, over his career here're his splits:

 

Rt-handed- OPS+ 110

Lf-handed- OPS+ 94

 

Regardless of that fact and the clear ML evidence that Vargas is the superior hitter, the Twins still can't even come to the conclusion that Vargas is the best of 4 less than optimal options.

[jokin]

 

 

Serious question....have you actually seen them play?

I mean, Park was the team's best player for a month last year before his wrist injury. He has some of the longest HRs in Target Field history, IIRC. He would have been very useful off the bench in that first game today when the Twins needed a long ball off of a lefty.

I wanted Park to get a shot to start the season. If he can show he can stay healthy, and keep hitting at AAA, there is no reason why he shouldn't get a shot.

I can't speak for Palka. Hardly seen the guy play, and mainly have just box-score watched since he arrived.

 

You don't kick your previous season's "Big FA Signing" off of the major league roster, leaving him exposed to 29 other teams, if you think he's the obvious long-term answer at the DH/1B role.

 

As of now, he's little more than emergency filler if or when Mauer has a recurrence of bilateral leg weakness.

[Old Twins Cap]

Rob Antony said on the radio that MLB contract reads that ownership and players must negotiate after three day/night double-headers scheduled in a season.  I think Twins are already at four.  They talked and the players wanted to get to the East Coast at a reasonable hour tonight.

 

Fun to see two games back-to-back like that, first time here since 2001 for the Twinks.

[stringer bell]

 

I don't know the rules on doubleheader "democracy". How often do the players have veto power on split doubleheaders? Playing a doubleheader early in September makes financial and competitive sense. The rotation is in a shambles right now.

 

What is the line on who throws tomorrow night?

 

Since you mention Baltimore weather for the series opener, have the Twins built an advanced statistical model on rainout probabilities and playing the odds that a Monday night washout is bankable? They already used up their long RP today- so no bullpen game tomorrow.

After three split doubleheaders, the players vote over whether to schedule another split doubleheader. The Twins voted for a traditional double dip today.

 

They do have Haley available tomorrow, along with Pressly, Belisle and Kintzler (I suppose). Rogers is probably available tomorrow as well. I doubt they know for sure if they get tomorrow's game in.

[DJSim22]

 

Serious question....have you actually seen them play?

I mean, Park was the team's best player for a month last year before his wrist injury. He has some of the longest HRs in Target Field history, IIRC. He would have been very useful off the bench in that first game today when the Twins needed a long ball off of a lefty.

I wanted Park to get a shot to start the season. If he can show he can stay healthy, and keep hitting at AAA, there is no reason why he shouldn't get a shot.

I can't speak for Palka. Hardly seen the guy play, and mainly have just box-score watched since he arrived.

 

Park was a horrible signing to begin with and outside of spring training, he hasn't done much more than Vargas.  Can't say I blame him, statniks take out the human part of the game and his transition to a new life.  I guess if that month of 6 home runs gives you a woody so be it.  He also struck out 33% of the time with an on base of .288. 

 

Palka is another guy who hits some home runs and strikes out far too much.  I think some people want this team to turn into some sort of men's softball team.

 

So yes, I've seen them play a little. 

[DJSim22]

 

 

Exactly. I'm right with you- the Twins are in a most unenviable position of picking their poison.

 

They clearly have little interest in increasing Vargas's role, Escobar, although occasionally streaky hot, is just above Futility level at the plate overall, and it's highly likely that Park or Palka would fall flat on their face given 200+ PAs.

 

Curious that everyone is ragging on Vargas's lack of production from the right side of the plate as THE REASON for his limited PAs, and yet, over his career here're his splits:

 

Rt-handed- OPS+ 110

Lf-handed- OPS+ 94

 

Regardless of that fact and the clear ML evidence that Vargas is the superior hitter, the Twins still can't even come to the conclusion that Vargas is the best of 4 less than optimal options.

 

No argument here, I think I like Vargas more than the Twins do.  I think he's the best option of the group, but you are right, the Twins don't seem so sure. 

 

[jokin]

 

After three split doubleheaders, the players vote over whether to schedule another split doubleheader. The Twins voted for a traditional double dip today.

 

They do have Haley available tomorrow, along with Pressly, Belisle and Kintzler (I suppose). Rogers is probably available tomorrow as well. I doubt they know for sure if they get tomorrow's game in.

 

Rob Antony said on the radio that MLB contract reads that ownership and players must negotiate after three day/night double-headers scheduled in a season.  I think Twins are already at four.  They talked and the players wanted to get to the East Coast at a reasonable hour tonight.

 

Fun to see two games back-to-back like that, first time here since 2001 for the Twinks.

 

I kinda like an old fashioned doubleheader once in a while, too (especially when miserable weather leaves out other extra-curricular options).

 

Thanks for the update and clarification. I appreciate the player's position on this, but it still leaves the rotation in flux as they hit the road, and a September 2nd doubleheader would have found the team at full strength... plus an expanded roster of Red Wing/Lookout arms.

 

A BP game would be interesting, but at the current pace- Pressly, Belisle and especially Kintzler are going to be arm-weary by August- all 3 appearing in half, or nearly half of the games, so far.

[Rosterman]

Well, at some point between productivity, salary and position, the Twins are evaluating players for 2018 and beyond. Is Vargas the better choice to keep around if someone will eat the salary of Park? Is Palka a potential or another Adam Walker. When will Escobar become to expensive. Who's playing second and short in 2018, let alone 2019. What will eventually happen with Joe Mauer (will he retired, need to stay on the Twins roster for a few more years, or end his career elsewhere).

 

And EVERYONE on the roster has to be playing not only for a job with the Twins, but to open the eyes of someone, anyone, elsewhere. 

 

We have to give our new front office a bit of evaluation time. We have to hope that the Twins can still compete by winning games against the teams they have yet to play, at least taking a series or splitting...maybe that will keep Molitor around.

 

Still wonder if they have done a full evaluation of the coaching in the system, as well as figured out the major league level. Remember, the new coaches are dealing with guys that came up under the old system.

 

But, yes, one can start questioning Molitor at every turn. Saldy, but true.

 

[Danchat]

Park is just rusty and will probably start going on a tear pretty soon. I don't think he's an option to call up and I don't think the Twins need him right now. Palka needs more time at AAA, and I'm starting to think he'll need a full season of AAA before he'll be ready.

 

Also, it's definitely not time to DFA Vargas.

[The Wise One]

 

 

Exactly. I'm right with you- the Twins are in a most unenviable position of picking their poison.

 

They clearly have little interest in increasing Vargas's role, Escobar, although occasionally streaky hot, is just above Futility level at the plate overall, and it's highly likely that Park or Palka would fall flat on their face given 200+ PAs.

 

Curious that everyone is ragging on Vargas's lack of production from the right side of the plate as THE REASON for his limited PAs, and yet, over his career here're his splits:

 

Rt-handed- OPS+ 110

Lf-handed- OPS+ 94

 

Regardless of that fact and the clear ML evidence that Vargas is the superior hitter, the Twins still can't even come to the conclusion that Vargas is the best of 4 less than optimal options.

What is Escobar's OPS+ split?

[kab21]

I pick Vargas

[The Wise One]

It would seem rather strange to replace a player with a major league ops of 771 with a player with a AAA ops of 740 or 664.  That the major league player was pinch hit for as a reason to dfa fits a strange. It is the entertaining part of forums

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Objects in post may be closer (or farther) apart than you think...

 

Vargas OPS+ 108 (2017) 103 (career) 68 (as PH)

Escobar OPS+ 94 (2017) 87 (career) 43 (as PH)

Santana OPS+ 60 (2017) 87 (career) 55 (as PH)

I suppose we could ignore DanSan's Atlanta stats, since neither Vargas or Escobar are going anywhere any time soon (though as a big Esco fan, I fear he may not survive the season either, provided we keep Dozier and given the play of Polanco and now Adrianza)

[DJSim22]

 

It would seem rather strange to replace a player with a major league ops of 771 with a player with a AAA ops of 740 or 664.  That the major league player was pinch hit for as a reason to dfa fits a strange. It is the entertaining part of forums

 

If I could give this post ten likes, I would.

[jokin]

 

It would seem rather strange to replace a player with a major league ops of 771 with a player with a AAA ops of 740 or 664.  That the major league player was pinch hit for as a reason to dfa fits a strange. It is the entertaining part of forums

 

Strange, yes. The "strangeness" of this whole situation is precisely the point of this tongue in cheek thread.

[DaveW]

I'm in London, so missed these game, what did Vargas do to earn a DFA!?!?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Park has a .713 OPS in AAA. He's not going to be in Minnesota any time soon. Palka isn't much better.

He has played 10 games since missing a month. Probably too soon to bury the guy.