Article: Defensive Reactions

[USAFChief]

True, but I think it's more of a late inning defensive substitution where they make sense. I wouldn't start either of those guys other than giving someone else the occasional day off, but having options to improve the defense when there's a lead certainly makes sense.

There are 3 (2 if they carry 13 pitchers) bench spots not counting catcher. You're going to dedicate 2 of those spots to late inning defensive replacements? Including OF?

 

That doesn't make sense to me.

[USAFChief]

Did he move off of SS, because of arm strength or range? If he didn't have the arm for SS I don't think you can move him to 3B.

Dozier doesn't have enough arm to play on the left side of the infield.

[Doomtints]

I think improving the defense is a great first step. I disagree that Castro's defense is good, but I like the premise in this article that shoring up the defense is a priority. Unfortunately there are limited things the Twins can do defensively as there are some big bats they want to keep in the lineup, bats that are attached to some rather iffy defenders.

 

In any case, improving defense + improving starting pitching could be done concurrently....

Edited February 8, 2017 by Doomtints

[nicksaviking]

 

I agree with the FO strategy here. I think SS and CF specifically should value defense over offense. 

 

SS perhaps, but I'd think there are going to be more times where the team needs a bat off the bench late in the game than there will be times when they need a defensive upgrade at the OF position.

 

[USAFChief]

I think my ideal usage for Polanco, at this point in time, would be sort of a roving infielder. Start at short with fly ball guys on the mound, start at third (with Sano at DH) with more GB-centric starters. Occasionally spell Dozier at second. Seems unlikely though because then what is Escobar doing on the roster.

 

 

If they truly are committed to improving the defense, they start Adrianza at SS, with Polanco moving to utility infielder. Santana is gone, possibly Escobar as well.

 

If not, I guess Adrianza could replace Santana/Escobar, but then they're not really committed to improving the defense.

[mikelink45]

We have not addressed any meaningful change, we just get names to talk about as we hope for the next season, but Stubbs and Shuck and Adrianza represent mediocre players for last place teams.  I hope all three are beat out.  Give Polanco a full year.  Give Sano a full year.  Let these players learn and develop.  I went to Stubbs baseball record and it is easy to see why he was available. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stubbdr01.shtml  He has been with numerous teams the last two years and his days are over.  Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Grossman are the outfield. Adrianza had one decent year in four http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/adriaeh01.shtml  and SF did not want to keep him.  In four seasons he accumulated a 0.4 defensive war. 

 

J. B. Shuck has an accumulated Defensive WAR of -1.3 over five seasons and an offensive WAR of 0.1 for the same five years.  Where is there upgrade?

[bird]

 

If they truly are committed to improving the defense, they start Adrianza at SS, with Polanco moving to utility infielder. Santana is gone, possibly Escobar as well.

If not, I guess Adrianza could replace Santana/Escobar, but then they're not really committed to improving the defense.

 

It will be interesting to see if what we're seeing is an effort to improve defensively simply from a roster construction point of view. Let's see what the game day lineup looks like I guess, but I'd view it as an over-correction from a roster construction standpoint if Stubbs makes the roster and has a role as a defensive replacement in the OF.

 

Castro is unarguably a defensive improvement over Suzuki regardless of how we rate his defense beyond pitch framing. It was perhaps the single most glaring position player weakness and FA was the best avenue to fix it, so they overpaid slightly perhaps. He'll make a difference on game day, and we'll see about Adrianza in that regard I suppose.

 

Falvey was painted into a corner. The paint was wet when he was issued his employee badge and won't completely set until next off-season. In the meantime, we have to expect to see him reach out of the corner to try to fix problems. Because of this, I'm actually impressed with the Adrianza move and find the Stubbs signing to be a function of having rather limited options. I hope they cut him and maybe pick up a better 4th OF option when spring training casualties hit the market.

Edited February 8, 2017 by birdwatcher

[Doomtints]

 

SS perhaps, but I'd think there are going to be more times where the team needs a bat off the bench late in the game than there will be times when they need a defensive upgrade at the OF position.

 

I think the Ryan II-era Twins proved very well how important good CF defense is. Without Aaron Hicks out there the defense was costing them games. Unfortunately, with him out there his bat was costing them games....

[USAFChief]

I think the Ryan II-era Twins proved very well how important good CF defense is. Without Aaron Hicks out there the defense was costing them games. Unfortunately, with him out there his bat was costing them games....

Since I expect 155 games in CF from Buxton (given health), I'm not concerned with CF defense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Castro isn't a great fielder; he's just good at pitch framing, which will remain a valuable skill only if umpires fail or are unable to learn from their mistakes, now that they are featured so much (and he's a K machine).

I don't buy into this line of thought, as it's predicated on the idea that pitch framing involves tricking the umpire.

 

It doesn't. Pitch framing isn't only about turning a negative into a positive, it's also about keeping a positive a positive.

 

Pitch framing is as much about convincing the umpire a strike is a strike as it is convincing an umpire a ball is a strike.

[bird]

 

Since I expect 155 games in CF from Buxton (given health), I'm not concerned with CF defense.

 

 

Knowing your thinking, Chief, if Buxton runs himself onto the DL, you have high conviction that Zack Granite and Tanner English are money in the bank.

[Doomtints]

 

Since I expect 155 games in CF from Buxton (given health), I'm not concerned with CF defense.

 

I'm not concerned with the CF defense either, though I would be surprised if Buxton plays 155 games out there.

[USAFChief]

I'm not concerned with the CF defense either, though I would be surprised if Buxton plays 155 games out there.

Why?

[Doomtints]

 

Why?

 

He has to both stay healthy and hit well enough. Both have been elusive for him so far.

 

Considering his history, if I were in charge I don't think I'd even want him out there 155 games yet.  

[GP830]

I'm still not convinced that an athletic, 23 year old with a lifetime of baseball experience cannot improve his defense at Short Stop if he set his mind to it. I feel that Polanco is the SS for time being, and blown away that the team that thought Sano could play RF doesn't think Polanco can play SS. Two wrongs obviously don't make a right- but I just don't understand the lack of urgency in getting him to figure it out. 

 

Polanco is young and can hit-- is he a primadonna who refuses to work on his defense? If so, then why not get rid of him? 

[USAFChief]

He has to both stay healthy and hit well enough. Both have been elusive for him so far.

 

Considering his history, if I were in charge I don't think I'd even want him out there 155 games yet.

 

He has to stay healthy, like every player, but I don't believe in "injury prone." Some players have chronic problems (Thome's back), but outside that, it's random chance.

 

And he's at the point where he should be in CF almost no matter what he hits. It's time to find out one way or the other. He represents a good part of the future, if he can't hit, at least they'll be pretty sure of it.

[Doomtints]

 

He has to stay healthy, like every player, but I don't believe in "injury prone." Some players have chronic problems (Thome's back), but outside that, it's random chance.

And he's at the point where he should be in CF almost no matter what he hits. It's time to find out one way or the other. He represents a good part of the future, if he can't hit, at least they'll be pretty sure of it.

 

"Injury prone" is a strong term that I would not use to describe Buxton, at least not yet. Still, I would not have the expectation for him to play a full season. He still has not been good for more than a month at a time and he has had some injuries. He would be a guy who I would rest every two weeks, at least in 2017. If he gets injured or suffers through another a long slump he isn't helping anybody. If he plays 135 games in 2017, then you can push for 155 next year.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Doomtints

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm still not convinced that an athletic, 23 year old with a lifetime of baseball experience cannot improve his defense at Short Stop if he set his mind to it. I feel that Polanco is the SS for time being, and blown away that the team that thought Sano could play RF doesn't think Polanco can play SS. Two wrongs obviously don't make a right- but I just don't understand the lack of urgency in getting him to figure it out. 

 

Polanco is young and can hit-- is he a primadonna who refuses to work on his defense? If so, then why not get rid of him? 

 

Isn't nearly every baseball player an athletic 23 year old with a lifetime of baseball? 

[TheLeviathan]

 

He has to stay healthy, like every player, but I don't believe in "injury prone." Some players have chronic problems (Thome's back), but outside that, it's random chance.

And he's at the point where he should be in CF almost no matter what he hits. It's time to find out one way or the other. He represents a good part of the future, if he can't hit, at least they'll be pretty sure of it.

 

I wouldn't call him injury prone, but we're close to that.  Some bodies absorb impact and avoid injury better than others.  So far, his track record isn't very good on that front.

 

It's a major concern i have about him.

[Guest]

I don't buy into this line of thought, as it's predicated on the idea that pitch framing involves tricking the umpire.

 

It doesn't. Pitch framing isn't only about turning a negative into a positive, it's also about keeping a positive a positive.

 

Pitch framing is as much about convincing the umpire a strike is a strike as it is convincing an umpire a ball is a strike.

It is reasonable to expect the league to push umpires to improve their ability to correctly call balls and strikes, regardless of catcher action, because it is now a prominent issue. The question is whether umpires are capable of improvement. If umpires do improve, the value of pitch framing will decrease.

[jimmer]

 

I get that, to an extent. The Sano-as-DH thing began even before those pop-ups were dropped. A lot of people view him as a DH because of his size.

 

Here's the thing, though: You WANT Sano to be a third baseman. A 40-homer third baseman is a lot rarer than a 40-homer first baseman or a 40-homer DH. And he has a ton of value if he simply plays average defense. 

And a lot of people viewed him as a DH cause they saw him play 3B.  

[jimmer]

 

I don't buy into this line of thought, as it's predicated on the idea that pitch framing involves tricking the umpire.

 

It doesn't. Pitch framing isn't only about turning a negative into a positive, it's also about keeping a positive a positive.

 

Pitch framing is as much about convincing the umpire a strike is a strike as it is convincing an umpire a ball is a strike.

exactly

[Loosey]

 

How often do you plan to bench Dozier, for that to work?

I think Adrianza at shortstop is a backfill role for the "Just in case we trade Dozier during the season".  A contending team is one 2B injury away from a making a trade for Dozier.

[Doomtints]

 

And a lot of people viewed him as a DH cause they saw him play 3B.  

 

Yeah. Guy blows out his arm and loses a year trying to throw from 3B. Guy has balls bounce off the top of his head while fielding at 3B.

 

Sano has no value as a defender, and if he gets injured while fielding then you've just lost his bat. Why risk that when the bat is all you care about?

Edited February 8, 2017 by Doomtints

[Guest]

If they truly are committed to improving the defense, they start Adrianza at SS, with Polanco moving to utility infielder. Santana is gone, possibly Escobar as well.

If not, I guess Adrianza could replace Santana/Escobar, but then they're not really committed to improving the defense.

You want to be careful about tilting playing time too far to glove specialists, or you end up like Seattle a few years ago, when they focused on getting good fielders like Franklin Gutierrez to support Ichiro, King Felix and the rest of a pretty good pitching staff. Felix won Cy Young in 2010, but the team lost 100+ that year and lost 95 in 2011.

 

If improving SS is really that important, it would have been better to pay up to get someone like Zack Cozart, who at least carries a passable stick to go with good defense, like another poster was pushing a few months ago, than to buy another Terry Ryan blue light twice-waived bargain bin special.

[Doomtints]

 

It is reasonable to expect the league to push umpires to improve their ability to correctly call balls and strikes, regardless of catcher action, because it is now a prominent issue. The question is whether umpires are capable of improvement. If umpires do improve, the value of pitch framing will decrease.

 

Umpiring has improved since pitch framing became a thing. It shows an umpire's tendencies just as much as it shows a catcher's. The crappier umpires don't like pitch framing one bit, but many of them have gotten better because of it.

[Loosey]

 

I don't buy into this line of thought, as it's predicated on the idea that pitch framing involves tricking the umpire.

 

It doesn't. Pitch framing isn't only about turning a negative into a positive, it's also about keeping a positive a positive.

 

Pitch framing is as much about convincing the umpire a strike is a strike as it is convincing an umpire a ball is a strike.

I'll start to worry about the pitch framing carrying too much weight when we get Robot Umpires.  But since Castro's deal is only 3 years, I don't think we will have to worry about it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think Adrianza at shortstop is a backfill role for the "Just in case we trade Dozier during the season".  A contending team is one 2B injury away from a making a trade for Dozier.

 

I was responding to the suggestion that Polanco should play some 2B.....

[d-mac]

 

The Sano at DH take is a visceral reaction to Miguel not being able to catch infield popups. He does have some talent there and an arm. It's just hard to lose the visual of those botched catches.

 

Catching pop ups does not require athletic ability. It's a learned skill that can be improved with reps. 

[GP830]

 

Isn't nearly every baseball player an athletic 23 year old with a lifetime of baseball? 

Touche' 

 

But yes- you're right. I just don't see how he's not taking reps at SS everyday. I know this was discussed in another thread-- but he's also hurting his own earning potential. How is he not doing everything to be a Major League Short Stop??? 

Edited February 8, 2017 by GP830