North Short Nine: Pirates Should Target Dozier

[Seth Stohs]

North Shore Nine is a Pirates blog. They're doing a series on potential trade targets for the team, and Brian Dozier's name is on the list.

 

I find it interesting just because of the names that they would offer for Dozier, and compare it to what I would expect the Twins to acquire for Dozier. Comments interesting too.

 

http://northshorenine.com/EBH8y

 

[Vanimal46]

Out of the names they brought up, I'd put Taillon as the top target to trade for. I know others on the board are fascinated with Glasnow too. After the failed attempt to develop Alex Meyer, I'm not sure I want to dive back into the extremely tall pitcher pool.  

[goulik]

Give them Gibson to sweeten the deal and get the Potential Ace and possibly a Catcher?

[gunnarthor]

Well, Keller/Kuhl is not even close to what I'd want back.  Basically, that's Tommy Milone and maybe Stephen Gonsalves.  I think the fit is right but the offers in the comment section were a lot of 'our crap for your gold' type.  Someone like Cole, Glasnow or Taillon are what we should try and get back.  If we can't get guys like that, then there probably isn't a good fit with Pitt.

[old nurse]

Some of the publications that looked at the trades  of Cleveland and the Cubs the deals that turned out best were the deadline deals. Lots of scrap got dealt. Gems did rise out.  It took a while. Any Dozier trade that helps the club in the long run is likely going to involve players that probably are not going to help the team this decade. The best hope for quicker help is Ervin Santana having a very good year and being dealt to a contender at the deadline.  Same for Gibson.

[Ernestfickle22]

Taillon John Jaso and either Max Moroff or Kevin Kramer would be something I would love to see happen. 

[Steve Lein]

Any conversation with them from the Twins side should start and stop with Glasnow or Taillon.

 

Not sure Dozier by himself would entice them for that, but there's a lot of stuff in our system I'd add in to such a deal to make it happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Any conversation with them from the Twins side should start and stop with Glasnow or Taillon.

Agreed. The offer at the end of that blog post is laughably low. The Twins don't desperately need more mid-rotation or lower prospects. They already have several of those guys in minors.

[jimmer]

Give them Gibson to sweeten the deal and get the Potential Ace and possibly a Catcher?

adding a horrible pitcher sweetens the deal? Dozier and Gibson don't come close to getting a potential ace, much less also a catcher.

[Thrylos]

John Jaso?   Really?  The last thing the Twins need is a 33 year old catcher who cannot catch.

[Doomtints]

It's difficult to imagine Dozier going to the Pirates, even with the Twins recent history with trades with that organization.  But anything can happen.

 

What highfalutin teams need an upgrade at 2B?  I can't imagine a .500 team thinking that Dozier is the key to their success.  But a team that feels they are almost there could certainly be interested in Dozier.  He would come cheap, at least as far as dollars are concerned.  Teams that are in "win now" mode won't be as concerned about giving up some prospects to have 2B sewn up for a bit.  

[diehardtwinsfan]

In my man crush for Glasnow, I completely forgot about Taillon (thou to be fair I'd probably still prefer Glasnow over Taillon).  Agreed that a deal with Pittsburg would have to headline at least one of them. 

 

Problem is that I'm greedy and want more... though I do agree that I'd have no problems tossing in people from our system to even it out so to speak.  Not sure about Cole.  I wouldn't have a problem adding him in, but he's a couple years away from FA.  I want arms controllable for longer term, and I don't think the Pirates would give up Glasnow and Cole. 

[magiklair]

I don't think this organization has the guts to trade him.. So it's all fine and dandy to speculate. I just wouldn't spend too much time doing it. As he's likely to stay for the remainder of his contract..

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think this organization has the guts to trade him.. So it's all fine and dandy to speculate. I just wouldn't spend too much time doing it. As he's likely to stay for the remainder of his contract..

It's going to be completely new decision makers, with zero ties whatsoever with Dozier.

I don't know why you would think it's slam dunk that they wouldn't trade him.

[magiklair]

 

It's going to be completely new decision makers, with zero ties whatsoever with Dozier.
I don't know why you would think it's slam dunk that they wouldn't trade him.

 

St. Peter is still at the top.. That's why I think it's not going to happen.

[Thrylos]

 

St. Peter is still at the top.. That's why I think it's not going to happen.

 

St. Peter is holding the keys of heaven regarding which school football teams are going to destroy Target Field and what would be the preferred sausage vendor at Target Field and which is the next hick band that will play there.

 

As far as baseball goes...

[goulik]

adding a horrible pitcher sweetens the deal? Dozier and Gibson don't come close to getting a potential ace, much less also a catcher.

Did you read the article and comments? It was suggested that Dozier could bring back 3 prospects but one of the top two would probably require a potential mid rotation return. I was going with their thinking and adding the mid rotation potential guy they suggested in Gibson (I know he was not that this year but some still believe in that potential). Two catching prospects were also suggested as the second or even third level prospects by another one of their posters since they had two higher on the depth chart making them expendable. I didn't research the names. I just responded to the original article and comments Seth linked...

[nicksaviking]

St. Peter is still at the top.. That's why I think it's not going to happen.

His job requirements include organizing Brian Dozier bobblehead give-away day not Brian Dozier relocation day. St. Peter doesn't make these calls.

[Mr. Brooks]

St. Peter is still at the top.. That's why I think it's not going to happen.

Dave St. Peter is in a completely different department. He has no influence in player transactions.

[gunnarthor]

 

I don't think this organization has the guts to trade him.. So it's all fine and dandy to speculate. I just wouldn't spend too much time doing it. As he's likely to stay for the remainder of his contract..

Frankly, there's going to be a lot of speculating - that's what happens during the off season. 

[beckmt]

 

Frankly, there's going to be a lot of speculating - that's what happens during the off season. 

That what makes sites like this fun.  Best part of Dozier is the cheap price for a high quality player.  Even if you do not keep him after 2 years and the QO system still exists(and I believe it will in some form), you can put a QO on him and get a pick between 30 - 40 in a full draft(I also believe this will be part of the new system, though it maybe linked to FA after 5 years).  That would be worth it to a team like the Pirates(who may only have about a two year window to make the series before the whole team becomes too expensive).  

[diehardtwinsfan]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of offseason trades like BD get held up over the CBA.  That's my 2 cents, but the QO thing will need to be answered as it affects value for BD.  My guess is that the pick becomes a compensation pick and not a surrender of a pick... my 2 cents at least... or potentially you start surrendering the pick when you have other criteria in play, but I cannot imagine it being good for baseball when a guy like Ervin Santana is unemployed going into the season because no one wanted to surrender the pick.  That's just bad for baseball all around, and it's happened not only to Santana, but a few others over the years as well.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of offseason trades like BD get held up over the CBA.

That may be the case when trading for a one-year guy but I doubt the pending CBA will impact trades of guys like Dozier, who have 2+ years of control.

 

Teams are interested in winning and a potential draft pick isn't going to hold back a team trying to make a push at the postseason. If the CBA changes, Dozier's new team still has three opportunities to trade him: 2017 deadline, 2017 offseason, 2018 deadline.

[Mike Sixel]

Dozier can play 2B, DH, or 1B....so I think limiting your thoughts to JUST 2B needy teams is shorting your options. He is valuable at all three of those, and just look at some of the DHs out there....or even 1B.

[beckmt]

Contract is the reason I would hold out for a top flight starter prospect not too far from the majors, That would be a Tallion, Glasnow, Urias, or others of the same type.  You might get one just ready to start AA, but would not want to take one further away from that and then for that type would want more and better prospects because of the higher risk.

[Vanimal46]

 

Contract is the reason I would hold out for a top flight starter prospect not too far from the majors, That would be a Tallion, Glasnow, Urias, or others of the same type.  You might get one just ready to start AA, but would not want to take one further away from that and then for that type would want more and better prospects because of the higher risk.

Concur. If it also takes additional resources from the Twins such as 1 of Stewart, Romero, Jay, etc. I'm on board with that too in order to acquire a top flight starter. 

[jimmer]

Dozier can play 2B, DH, or 1B....so I think limiting your thoughts to JUST 2B needy teams is shorting your options. He is valuable at all three of those, and just look at some of the DHs out there....or even 1B.

doziers value stems from him being a power 2B who plays okay defense.

[Mike Sixel]

 

doziers value stems from him being a power 2B who plays okay defense.

 

don't agree, that offense plays at more than just 2B. Sure, he has MORE value as a 2B....but that O plays at DH or 1B also.

 

Looking only at offense, he had the 15th highest rating on Fangraphs....of all players. Would have been just behind Cabrera as a 1B, for 6th overall...3rd best DH overall.

 

And, he was way ahead of many of the 1B behind him on offense, way ahead. For many teams, it would be a huge upgrade.

[Doomtints]

 

doziers value stems from him being a power 2B who plays okay defense.

 

Yes.  And his power numbers are pretty empty.  Usually guys who smack 25+ home runs have an OPS better than .750.  At 42 homers he managed an .886 OPS, which still seems like it should be higher.

 

This doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good fit for a team that with a lot of high OBP guys but lacking a solid power guy.  

[jimmer]

don't agree, that offense plays at more than just 2B. Sure, he has MORE value as a 2B....but that O plays at DH or 1B also.

 

Looking only at offense, he had the 15th highest rating on Fangraphs....of all players. Would have been just behind Cabrera as a 1B, for 6th overall...3rd best DH overall.

 

And, he was way ahead of many of the 1B behind him on offense, way ahead. For many teams, it would be a huge upgrade.

you are looking at one years worth of data.

 

Additionally, isnt the point to trade him to a team where we woukd get the most value in return? That happens when we trade Dozier to a team that needs a 2B.