Who gets Sent Down when Plouffe Returns? Official: It's Buxton

[Halsey Hall]

Since Plouffe last played on July 1st the Twins have gone 18-11. That in a way confirms my thoughts on him all along the last few years.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sadly, this is the likely scenario, if no one wants Plouffe by the end of the month, I think.

If they get to the end of the month without moving Plouffe, he is staying on the roster until the end of the season, regardless of whether they plan to tender him or not.  (I still think they might, or at least might want to negotiate a non-tender/re-sign).

 

They couldn't even bring themselves to cut Aaron Thompson before the end of the season last year, and they didn't even recall him in September when rosters expanded and they were rather desperate for pitchers (AJ Achter, long relief!).  They're not cutting Plouffe before the end of the year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Since Plouffe last played on July 1st the Twins have gone 18-11. That in a way confirms my thoughts on him all along the last few years.

Of course, on the day Plouffe went on the DL earlier this year, we had a 4-9 record.  And we proceeded to go 4-9 again without Plouffe.

[alarp33]

 

I'd hate to send Vargas down considering he seems to be finally on track after last year.  Sano is struggling a bit but what about Buxton?  I mean he's hitting .195.  Horrible.

 

I'm not really a Vargas believer, he's already started to cool down.   I don't consider him part of the future, and would rather see Sano get at bats (DH), while Polanco also has room to play (3b)

[DJL44]

Send down Vargas, bring him back up when they can find someone to trade for Plouffe.

[alarp33]

 

I think this is the problem.  Sano is not the player everyone thinks he is.  His defense has always been bad.  Attitude and work ethic count for a lot.  The first indication of serious problem is his weight.  A Sano at 300 lbs has substantially reduced utility compared Sano at 240 lbs.  In addition, weight becomes a concern for injuries and career longevity. 

 

Are we all just adding 10 lbs to Sano's weight as each day goes on? He's going to be a "400lb Sano" by the end of the season

[ThejacKmp]

 

If they send Sano down this team is even dumber than I thought, Molitor needs to be fired. He might be the worst manager in all of baseball.

 

Not sure that Molitor will be the one making this decision, I imagine this is more of a GM call (with input from the coaching staff of course).

[stringer bell]

Mod note: There's already a thread about Sano. If you are talking about his weight, his attitude etc. make your thoughts known there.

[USAFChief]

IF Plouffe is reinstated, my guess is Vargas to AAA.

[Danchat]

When Plouffe is re-instated on Monday, I think they will send Polanco down. If not, then perhaps Buxton. I don't think it'll be Vargas because he's the primary DH and he's hitting really well.

[Mike Sixel]

My top choices:

 

1. DFA Plouffe. He shouldn't be on this roster next year, he shouldn't be blocking Vargas, Polanco, or Sano this year. Rotate Sano, Polanco, Vargas, etc.....so the young guys play 80% of the time.

 

2. DFA Santana. Polcanco is a better version of the same player. Not playing Polanco more at 3B or the OF in AAA is awful, unless they plan to trade Dozier or Polanco......just awful.

 

3. Send Vargas down, play Polanco at 3B, put Sano at DH.

...............

400000. Send Sano down. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'd probably send Buxton down. Rosario can man CF and Plouffe can spend time alternating between 3rd and OF until he's hopefully traded.  Buxton has hardly turned it around in his second stint and can use more time working on AAA pitching.

[mazeville]

Most likely scenario: Send down Vargas, play Plouffe most days in the coming week-10 days, then trade him for the bag of balls you're likely to get for him. 

 

It's a bummer for Vargas. You could theoretically send down Sano, but that would be stupid. And Vargas can come back up shortly, if not by September callup time. 

[glanzer]

Someone will conveniently get injured today, making it a moot point.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Most likely scenario: Send down Vargas, play Plouffe most days in the coming week-10 days, then trade him for the bag of balls you're likely to get for him. 

 

It's a bummer for Vargas. You could theoretically send down Sano, but that would be stupid. And Vargas can come back up shortly, if not by September callup time. 

 

Vargas' OPS since getting called up is north of 1.000. I really hope and pray to God they don't do that to accommodate Plouffe.  It's bad enough that they really need to give Park another shot and will have issues balancing Park, Vargas, and Mauer between 2 positions.

 

To me, it almost has to be Buxton (and sadly it won't happen).  Nothing against the guy, but he still isn't ready.  Perhaps they do Sano. Not a fan of that idea personally either as Sano has had far more success at this level.  Plouffe needs to come up and play so he can get traded for something... anything.

[stringer bell]

A small injury may in fact become disabling at this point. I expect they will give Plouffe enough at-bats to show he's healthy and swinging at least OK.

[mazeville]

 

 

To me, it almost has to be Buxton (and sadly it won't happen).  Nothing against the guy, but he still isn't ready.  Perhaps they do Sano. Not a fan of that idea personally either as Sano has had far more success at this level.  Plouffe needs to come up and play so he can get traded for something... anything.

 

So how are you going to give all of these guys playing time? Sano needs to play daily. You have to play Plouffe if you're going to trade him. Mauer is Mauer. Vargas needs playing time. Oh, and so does Jorge Polanco.

 

Meanwhile, you're going to send a guy down who has slowly improved every month, is striking out less and is walking more and plays all-world defense in a cavernous outfield. And you'll replace him with more Danny Santana? No thank you. 

 

In any event, let this be made perfectly clear: My idea here would be to get Plouffe back on the major league roster, demonstrate to other teams that he doesn't suck, then place him on waivers in the hopes of making an August trade. And then Vargas would come right back. 

[alarp33]

 

Vargas' OPS since getting called up is north of 1.000. I really hope and pray to God they don't do that to accommodate Plouffe.  It's bad enough that they really need to give Park another shot and will have issues balancing Park, Vargas, and Mauer between 2 positions.

 

To me, it almost has to be Buxton (and sadly it won't happen).  Nothing against the guy, but he still isn't ready.  Perhaps they do Sano. Not a fan of that idea personally either as Sano has had far more success at this level.  Plouffe needs to come up and play so he can get traded for something... anything.

 

Buxton has a clear spot to play every day in the majors, and should.  By sending him down, you are not only putting him in the minors, but blocking 2 of Vargas, Sano, Polanco (assuming Plouffe plays) in an indirect way.  Shouldn't the point be to play the young guys who are going to be a big part of 2017?

[laloesch]

 

Are we all just adding 10 lbs to Sano's weight as each day goes on? He's going to be a "400lb Sano" by the end of the season

 

Haha it's like the giant blueberry girl from willy wonka and the chocolate factory, just keeps growing bigger and bigger.

[Rosterman]

Okay, who to send down. Better yet, who do you want to have play and where.

 

We want to see Polanco play. Looks like it will be third, maybe short, a game or two at second between now and September. But having Plouffe on the roster means Plouffe plays third, or maybe first with Mauer DHing, then Vargas is out of a job. Whew, rotating players.

 

We want to see Sano. But he can't DH if we have Vargas, or if Plouffe plays 1st and Mauer at DH, and then Polanco sits on the bench, or maybe plays second or short that day. But Sano needs to up his skills playing third. I say let him do it for 15-20 games at Rochester, as well as work on his pitch selection. Seems viable at this point.

 

But we still have Polanco running around to different positions, Plouffe getting tryouts at different positions, and a full outfield.

 

Assuming we want Kepler and Rosario playing everyday. We also have Grossman, who has slowed a bit, but still is better in the lineup than sitting on the bench. We also have Santana doing, whatever, keeping a place warm on the bench in case Molly needs to sit during the game. Buxton ahs not been pulling his weight. I say send him down, too, to play 15-20 games in centerfield and work on his bunting exclusively, speed, taking pitches. He is a viable leadoff guy, but not right now in Minnesota. Let him lead-off in Rochester. Of course, who else can we bring up if we send down Buxton AND Sano.

 

I liked where someone said send down a starter. We only have four anyways. We seem to always have a start worked by the bullpen. We can send down any of the relief guys, hope Milone disappears. Anyways, we should be sending Duffey back down. Let's look at another possible body (heck, I would even accept the temporary second-coming of Albers at this point - looks like Darnell blew it again by going on the DL). 

 

We have four 40-man spots open. We could have a fifth (Milone). We could have a 6th (Suzuki). We could have a 7th (Plouffe).

 

Now I like Plouffe and all. But whoever has him on their major league roster at season's end needs to offer him year three of arbitration, or let him walk. I would rather make that another team's responsibility. Unless you, as the Twins general manager, sees him as such a fit that you call him into the office and offer him a 3-year contract today. But that could be anywhere's from $20 to the upside of $30 million. Where does he play. WHo doesn't play (Sano, Polanco, Vargas).

 

Like Milone, like Suzuki...you now have three players that you will probably get absolutely no return for today or after the season ends. If you let them walk today, you save salary if another team does grab them. Maybe you stick with Suzuki because he is the only one really playing and contributing. 

 

And we haven't even come to the dilemma of what do we do with Byung-Ho Park. Where can this guy play if we have Polanco at third, Mauer at first, Sano at DH (or Vargas).

 

Let's really complicate things. If we send out Sano (for Plouffe) and also Buxton. Who do we bring up to replace Buxton for the moment? Park (so we can dangle him out there on the waiver wire). Or perhaps an early look at Walker off the bench...who is another guy in the logjam of DH/OF/1B.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this...with four 40-man spots open on the rosters, the Twins have too much offense right now!

 

I say Sano down to work on fielding. He should understand that (how many games HAS he played at third in the last year...really). Buxton down to get better. Milone on waivers. Suzuki see if you can get a low-level prospect and salary relief at least (because we DO have to see Murphy catch some more). If you need to bring up Park for a week and see if he can pound the ball and then put him on waivers to see if there is interest, do so. He is more of a position problem right now, unless you are willing to let him linger at Rochester again next season, or flip Vargas at some point.

 

Polanco needs to play. At third. It would be nicer if he could handle shortstop fulltime and have Escobar be the utility guy. Plouffe needs to play...one/two games at major leagues...then goes or sits. Again, IS HE IN THE FUTURE PLANS. If he is, then trade off Sano or Park or Vargas. Or send Mauer down to the minors to work on base running skills.

 

I'm starting to get confused. Now the biggest question of all ... where can Danny Santana play. I'm sure that is the first name Molly wants to write in on the line-up card everyday!

[laloesch]

 

Buxton has a clear spot to play every day in the majors, and should.  By sending him down, you are not only putting him in the minors, but blocking 2 of Vargas, Sano, Polanco (assuming Plouffe plays) in an indirect way.  Shouldn't the point be to play the young guys who are going to be a big part of 2017?

 

Man I don't know.  If you can't hit .200 as an everyday player in the outfield it's hard to justify keeping him here.  Clearly he is not ready for major league pitching. 

[alarp33]

 

Man I don't know.  If you can't hit .200 as an everyday player in the outfield it's hard to justify keeping him here.  Clearly he is not ready for major league pitching. 

 

I don't know why in a lost season you wouldn't want him to get these last 2 months in the majors? He's proven he can hit AAA pitching. How does him spending more time there help the team in 2017

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't know why in a lost season you wouldn't want him to get these last 2 months in the majors? He's proven he can hit AAA pitching. How does him spending more time there help the team in 2017

Plus the AAA season ends in a month, and then Buxton is back in MLB anyway.  I guess you could let him finish on a high note by ending in AAA, but it would still probably be a low note because he'd still have his lingering poor MLB results hanging over him all winter.  Probably have to tough it out in the majors and hope for some signs of progress.

[dgwills]

 

It still creates a logjam for Plouffe/Sano/Vargas to get meaningful at bats.

The only thing I like about sending Buxton to AAA is it would give us a shot to showcase Rosario in CF for a potential trade for a SP

I'd like to hang on to Rosario. Who would replace him in left. Grossman? His defense is terrible.

There are a lot of people on this team who need or deserve at bats. Regardless of who you send down. If you include Mauer to the 3B/1B/DH logjam with sending Buxton down it's 4 guys and 3 positions. That should be manageable for a few weeks while we see if Plouffe has any value as a waiver wire claim.

 

[Jham]

 

They simply need to release Plouffe. There is no reason to tender him this off season. He is not going to help them get anywhere the next two months.

The Twins risk creating a perception among the Latin American players that is going to be damaging to the team. What was the response by management to Mauer's repeated mistakes on the basepaths yesterday?

Sending down Sano or other better performing player of color and bringing up Plouffe will do damage in the clubhouse that may not be repaired. If this happens and Molitor doesn't see it coming he In no way should be a manager of any major league team.

Uhhh...  is there a race relations problem in the clubhouse I'm not aware of?  

No reason to keep Plouffe?  

 

1, it's possible he's a waiver trade option.  

 

2. It's possible we try to trade Dozier this offseason, move Polanco to 2nd, and do not feel sure Sano can be an adequate 3rd basemen.  

 

3. We may be able to extend Plouffe for cheap (hometeam discount, injuries, Sano leverage, low 3rd base market,etc).  

 

I'm not going to risk the rebuild and chance of contention next season by pushing all-in on Sano at third.  We can always non-tender Plouffe this winter if we decide we'd rather keep Dozier.  I just can't see keeping both or losing both.  
 

[Comrade Bork]

 

 

 

BTW, I"m not saying sending Sano down is the right thing to do.  I know many, if not most, posters think there's nothing for him to learn in the minors.  It did Rosario some good, but it would really depend on whether the Twins think a stint in Rochester would provide an opportunity to improve his batting approach and his attitude (if that's really needed).

Its tough with the wake up calls.  The casual fans eye test says this guy doesn't have the work ethic right now.  Its so aggravating, its like bro, you haven't gotten paid yet, you haven't "arrived"   .230 with 25 homers and no defensive value doesn't cut it in this league.  Would Rochester be a wake up call?  Maybe.  But I think the best wake up call will be Kepler absolutely dominating with our touted slugging prospect left in the dust sitting on the bench.

[Comrade Bork]

 

Uhhh...  is there a race relations problem in the clubhouse I'm not aware of?  

No reason to keep Plouffe?  

 

1, it's possible he's a waiver trade option.  

 

2. It's possible we try to trade Dozier this offseason, move Polanco to 2nd, and do not feel sure Sano can be an adequate 3rd basemen.  

 

3. We may be able to extend Plouffe for cheap (hometeam discount, injuries, Sano leverage, low 3rd base market,etc).  

 

I'm not going to risk the rebuild and chance of contention next season by pushing all-in on Sano at third.  We can always non-tender Plouffe this winter if we decide we'd rather keep Dozier.  I just can't see keeping both or losing both.  
 

What if we moved our best defensive infielder to third????   Looking at you Mauer.  He'd probably be great defensively and that opens up our logjam of DH/1B guys.  I can see Mauer saying yes to that vs right field at least.      

[stringer bell]

Interesting to read all of these comments. I said at the very beginning that I think it will be Vargas and if I was making the decision I believe it still would be Vargas. IMHO, Vargas has put in his chit for consideration as a DH/1B going forward and his demotion would only be for three weeks. If I were the manager or GM, I'd tell him he's made progress and has a chance to figure in the team's future. Sending Vargas down would lessen the logjam of Polanco (3B), Sano, Plouffe, Mauer.

 

I won't get my knickers in a twist if anyone sits a day or two going forward, No one has played well enough long enough to expect to play every day. There is enough talent among the position players, I'm convinced of that.

[Mike Sixel]

from August....

 

Josh
12:36 What is your take on Miguel Sano? Word is that the Twins might demote him when Plouffe is activated on Monday. Good move?

august fagerstrom
12:37 Seems short-sighted and silly
Sano is a 23-year-old with a 131 wRC+ over 156 career games and is one of the two or three most important people currently in the Twins organization
Trevor Plouffe means nothing, and neither does the Twins current record

 

Look.....back to me again......

 

They aren't getting anything for Plouffe in the next two weeks. Pipe. Dream. They need to move on already. Even if they demote Sano, I'd still cut Plouffe, and play Polanco there full time. 

[Dr. Evil]

Cut Mauer, cut Plouffe, cut Dsantana, cut Milone, promote Chargois, promote Hildenberger and get on with life.