Honest qustion: How have the Twins not fired Ryan and/or Molitor at this point?

[DaveW]

April 7-17

May 8-19

June 9-15

 

3rd worst hitting in the AL

2nd worst pitching in the MLB

Worst fielding team in the AL

Worst record in baseball.

 

Things aren't exactly turning around, in fact things in many ways are getting worse and worse with these two at the helm. They inexplicably let Arcia, a 25 year old, 30+ HR type guy leave for absolutely NOTHING. All he has done since then? Torn the cover off the ball for the Rays to a 1.417 OPS thus far.

 

The few "tradable" assets the Twins do have, haven't been aggressively shopped thus far, their "strategy" with the young players still remains perplexing, and Molitor hasn't changed up his managerial approach at all (besides switching up the batting order 5 times a week)

 

At this stage, it's painfully clear to nearly everyone that Molitor and Ryan aren't cut out to be major league managers/general managers in 2016.

So thus, I ask, how on earth have neither of these guys been fired at this stage? Why are the Twins the only team in ALL of sports that would keep both of these guys around to continue to throw more gasoline on this dumpster fire of a season?

 

[howieramone2]

 

April 7-17

May 8-19

June 9-15

 

3rd worst hitting in the AL

2nd worst pitching in the MLB

Worst fielding team in the AL

Worst record in baseball.

 

Things aren't exactly turning around, in fact things in many ways are getting worse and worse with these two at the helm. They inexplicably let Arcia, a 25 year old, 30+ HR type guy leave for absolutely NOTHING. All he has done since then? Torn the cover off the ball for the Rays to a 1.417 OPS thus far.

 

The few "tradable" assets the Twins do have, haven't been aggressively shopped thus far, their "strategy" with the young players still remains perplexing, and Molitor hasn't changed up his managerial approach at all (besides switching up the batting order 5 times a week)

 

At this stage, it's painfully clear to nearly everyone that Molitor and Ryan aren't cut out to be major league managers/general managers in 2016.

So thus, I ask, how on earth have neither of these guys been fired at this stage? Why are the Twins the only team in ALL of sports that would keep both of these guys around to continue to throw more gasoline on this dumpster fire of a season?

How would you know that? Also, there are approximately 300-350 regular posters on this board. Of that group, 80% of the posts are by 20% of the members. That is hardly a representative example of the millions of loyal Twins fans out there.

[Mike Sixel]

I think, if you go into the year with this FO, you probably leave the year with this FO. I'm not sure how you replace the whole FO at this point in the process. Nor do I think replacing just Ryan is a good idea......but, maybe it is. It MIGHT give the new GM a chance to assess the current personnel......I just don't see it as likely at all.

 

As for Molitor.....despite appeals to authority by some here, being a HoF player does not mean you will be a good manager. Those are two different skills. IMO, hiring someone to lead an organization, who has no previous such experience, generally turns out badly. IMO, we are seeing that now. I would not have an issue with Molitor being gone, but that's probably because I would not have put him in a managerial role w/o experience in the first place.

[Vanimal46]

1 more win every month! #Progress

This season seriously can't end soon enough. 

[Willihammer]

Yeah, there are no TR supporters left. Not in the fanbase or the media. Its unanimous. So it has to happen, Pohlad will have to fire TR at season's end. Which begs the question, why wait?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think, if you go into the year with this FO, you probably leave the year with this FO. I'm not sure how you replace the whole FO at this point in the process. Nor do I think replacing just Ryan is a good idea......but, maybe it is. It MIGHT give the new GM a chance to assess the current personnel......I just don't see it as likely at all.

Yeah, pretty much this. It's hard enough to find a GM in the offseason... Doing it in the middle of a season has to be harder. Hell, I don't even know if other teams would allow you to speak to their personnel during the season.

 

And there's no point in firing the manager in a lost season if you're planning to can the GM at the end of the season.

[jimmer]

 

Yeah, there are no TR supporters left. Not in the fanbase or the media. Its unanimous. So it has to happen, Pohlad will have to fire TR at season's end. Which begs the question, why wait?

Oh, there are plenty of devoted TR supporters.

[wsnydes]

 

I think, if you go into the year with this FO, you probably leave the year with this FO. I'm not sure how you replace the whole FO at this point in the process. Nor do I think replacing just Ryan is a good idea......but, maybe it is. It MIGHT give the new GM a chance to assess the current personnel......I just don't see it as likely at all.

 

As for Molitor.....despite appeals to authority by some here, being a HoF player does not mean you will be a good manager. Those are two different skills. IMO, hiring someone to lead an organization, who has no previous such experience, generally turns out badly. IMO, we are seeing that now. I would not have an issue with Molitor being gone, but that's probably because I would not have put him in a managerial role w/o experience in the first place.

Agree completely.  Firing the FO doesn't really get you anywhere midseason.

 

When Molitor was hired, I felt that it was simply appeasing a fan base.  He seemed to be what the majority of the fan base wanted despite the fact that he had no experience.  I didn't like the move then, I certainly don't like the move now.  I respect his playing career and feel that he knows the game, but none of that is guaranteed to translate to the manager's role.  The only thing that I can think of resembling a reason that he's still here is that this team is loyal to a fault.  Even at this point, I'm not sure firing him really gets you anywhere if the idea is to clean house in the FO.

[alarp33]

Because the ownership group values familiarity above all else.  

 

I still am holding out hope the public pressure and declining attendance numbers will force them to make a change in October.  

[Willihammer]

Yeah, pretty much this. It's hard enough to find a GM in the offseason... Doing it in the middle of a season has to be harder. Hell, I don't even know if other teams would allow you to speak to their personnel during the season.

 

And there's no point in firing the manager in a lost season if you're planning to can the GM at the end of the season.

How quickly do you think a replacement GM, from outside the organization preferably, would be able to reorganize, learn the organizational strengths/weaknesses, hire/fire staff, etc basically to get up and running? Could he do it before winter meetings?

[rghrbek]

 

Because the ownership group values familiarity above all else.  

 

I still am holding out hope the public pressure and declining attendance numbers will force them to make a change in October.  

 

This.  Ownership is just not prepared to do this right now, and like a few other posters, I am not sure doing this in the middle of the season is going to improve or change things.  My guess is you would want to interview a lot of currently MLB employed people for both jobs.

 

I still will be shocked if TR is let go at the end of the year.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not sure the winter meetings matter all that much, to this team.....

 

they have few assets to deal, and the FA class stinks. I'd want any new FO to be collecting every bit of data on this current roster, and on the minor league rosters.....and working on hiring the best manager he/she can.

[wsnydes]

 

How quickly do you think a replacement GM, from outside the organization preferably, would be able to reorganize, learn the organizational strengths/weaknesses, hire/fire staff, etc basically to get up and running? Could he do it before winter meetings?

I would think so since that is generally what teams that actually clean house do.  It makes the most sense to do it right after the regular season instead of impacting the season and draft preparations.  

[mazeville]

It's mid season. The Twins are a very conservative organization. There's no way they would fire anybody mid season. 

 

Now, if they keep these guys after the season, it's time to grab the pitchforks. But there's no need to do something right now. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

How quickly do you think a replacement GM, from outside the organization preferably, would be able to reorganize, learn the organizational strengths/weaknesses, hire/fire staff, etc basically to get up and running? Could he do it before winter meetings?

Really easy if you hire Antony.

 

*ducks and runs*

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Oh, there are plenty of devoted TR supporters.

 

I suspect there's simply more people that simply don't agree with you.  I cannot think of many TR supporters on these forums, not at this point at least.  There might be one or two people here who think he should remain at the helm. 

 

There are, however, plenty of people who do not disagree with the front office at every step.  Perhaps things would be a bit more peaceful around here if everyone chose not to lump people into an us vs. them model. 

[twinsnorth49]

 

Really easy if you hire Antony.

*ducks and runs*

[diehardtwinsfan]

There was an article written on this topic not that long ago.. or  at least it didn't seem like that long ago...  the premise was that an FO change would be best served in the September timeframe, which I think makes sense.  I do think there's some merit to bringing in someone above the TR/St. Peter level to oversee things in conjunction for that change, but the Pohlads don't seem to be the types to add another 7 figure salary to their books. I suspect (hope) changes are made towards the end of the season. 

 

I really hope they will be smart about them.  Change for the sake of change usually ends up disastrously. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Really easy if you hire Antony.

*ducks and runs*

 

May as well file a missing persons report for Brock.  I don't think he's a fast runner. 

[jimmer]

 

I suspect there's simply more people that simply don't agree with you.  I cannot think of many TR supporters on these forums, not at this point at least.  There might be one or two people here who think he should remain at the helm. 

 

There are, however, plenty of people who do not disagree with the front office at every step.  Perhaps things would be a bit more peaceful around here if everyone chose not to lump people into an us vs. them model. 

I don't think pointing out that there are a few who defend him at every turn without exception is creating an us versus them model. It's pointing out the reality.  They may be quieter now than during the offseason, but they are there and it's obvious.  So when someone says that no one is supporting TR anymore, it's not wrong to say that's false. And they are entitled to be TR supporters.  There are also those who just want to slam Ryan at every turn as well.  The two extremes exist. Both exist and that's the truth of it.

 

Additionally, I didn't say on this site. There are Twins fans away from this site as well, both online and in real life.  Saying there are plenty of devoted TR supporters is absolutely true, cause there are. Just like saying there are plenty of devoted Mauer supporters is true as well. And everyone should be entitled to be a devoted supporter of their favorites.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

Fire Ryan now?  Do you want Anthony as the GM?

 

That's the only outcome from that move.  Wait for the offseason and pray it reduces the odds of Anthony being promoted.

[Winston Smith]

Terry will have to retire he will never be fired imo.

[jimmer]

 

Fire Ryan now?  Do you want Anthony as the GM?

 

That's the only outcome from that move.  Wait for the offseason and pray it reduces the odds of Anthony being promoted.

Or don't hold your breath that Ryan will ever be fired.  If he steps down, his hand-picked successor (likely Anthony) will step in.  This team has proven time and time again that it's all about keeping things status quo.

[SwainZag]

I think a lot of you underestimate how big of an organization the Minnesota Twins are and what the ramifications would be canning the entire front office in the middle of a season would be.  It's definitely an off-season, or at least a very late in the season move.

[DaveW]

 

 

 

And there's no point in firing the manager in a lost season if you're planning to can the GM at the end of the season.

Plenty of reason to, give someone a shot at being an interim manager to gain some experience/audition for a role here or somewhere else next year. 

 

If you can bring up Dougie and he can get them to play close to .500 ball, then I think the next GM seriously interviews him for the permanent position. I'm sure Dougie would take the job/experience as well, even if the odds of him sticking around with a new GM weren't great.

 

Do you think Torch was "hesitant" to take the Wild role mid season? Knowing that baring a miracle he wouldn't be the Wild HC in 2017?

 

Most importantly, you need to show to the players, the fans and everyone else that utter failure is NOT acceptable. Fire Ryan and Molitor now, let Antony or whoever run out the string for the rest of the year as the GM (can't be worst than Ryan) and let Dougie get a shot to get the ML team playing a little bit better.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think a lot of you underestimate how big of an organization the Minnesota Twins are and what the ramifications would be canning the entire front office in the middle of a season would be.  It's definitely an off-season, or at least a very late in the season move.

 

In fairness....the question was about Ryan and Molitor, not the whole org. 

[DaveW]

 

Fire Ryan now?  Do you want Anthony as the GM?

 

That's the only outcome from that move.  Wait for the offseason and pray it reduces the odds of Anthony being promoted.

Honestly, I would rather fire Ryan now, let Anthony come in and prove he is no different, so he is ultimately "not retained" heading into 2017. Him failing now (Anthony) would insure that he wouldn't be back around in 2017 as the GM. You know damn well that if Ryan is fired at the end of the season, the clear odds on favorite to take over is Anthony or someone else internally.

[markos]

 

How quickly do you think a replacement GM, from outside the organization preferably, would be able to reorganize, learn the organizational strengths/weaknesses, hire/fire staff, etc basically to get up and running? Could he do it before winter meetings?

Teams do it all the time. Now, the following list is a little incomplete because titles (President of Baseball Ops vs GM) vary from team to team, but here are some of the most recent GM-ish hires:

 

David Stearns, Mil, Sept 21 from Houston

John Hart, Atl, Sept 22, internal promotion

Matt Klentak, Phi, Oct 26 from Anaheim

Andy McPhail, Phi, June 29, outside baseball

AJ Preller, SD, Aug 6 from Texas

Farhan Zaidi, LAD, Nov 6 from Oak

Andrew Friedman, LAD, Oct 14 from TB

Dave Dombrowski, BOS, Aug 18, outside baseball

Billy Eppler, LAA, Oct 4, NYY

Jerry Dipoto, Sea, Sept 28, BOS

 

Late-September and October are the most common times.

 

 

[DaveW]

 

I think a lot of you underestimate how big of an organization the Minnesota Twins are and what the ramifications would be canning the entire front office in the middle of a season would be.  It's definitely an off-season, or at least a very late in the season move.

I never said fire everyone, I said fire Molitor and Ryan. Let the interims (whoever they are) try to turn things around this year, then go into the off-season with the #1 priority of finding a new GM (who will run the whole FO) and let him pick and choose who stays and go in both the FO and the managerial staffs.

 

I know most of us don't have much faith in Anthony, but I am a little curious to see what he would do in a half season if he had 100% control (and not having to get approval from TR) to make the trades/moves needed. Fire Ryan, let Anthony handle the trade deadline, if by some chance he makes some real kickass trades, then let Anthony interview for the full time gig (along with plenty of outside org guys). If he falls on his face or proves to be Ryan 2.0, then he is simply not brought back in 2017 period.

[Kwak]

Ownership pulls the strings, and they found Ryan to follow their orders. Recall October 2014 press conference and the "...$85 million is enough..." speech? Then a short while later money "is found" to sign Hunter, Santana, and a !@@# relief pitcher. Promises (and some reality explained) were made to sign these guys. All was fine last year--but that investment wasn't to be for only a one year return! Oh no, the 90-loss Twins were to be banished forever--because if it were for only one season I'm convinced ownership would have held firm to the $85 million figure and rode the storm out. After all, ownership had heard all of the hype about "the #1 rated farm system" just like we did. They would have just waited (pocketing the "saved" money) until the "new wave" righted the ship and starting winning. Hence, they were blind-sided by the all of the losing (and the reality check) and then ranted the now infamous "Total System Failure".

 

If ownership truly wanted change an entirely new management would be required--and that guy would demand a lot more control than Ryan. I don't think the Pohlads want to cede the tight control they have on the Twins for the mere purpose of building a new (and winning!) team. They will wait and let the front office take all of the dirt balls while they pocket the profits.