Manager Responsibility or Poor Performance

[Riverbrian]

 

1) where was Polanco?

2) against lefties Arcia and Mastroianni are basically the same hitter, and Mastroianni would have to sub into CF either way. So, why burn 2 bench players when you can get the same result with one?

 

I can't speak for Paul but I'm saying that I would have probably sent Arcia up hoping he could tag one and tie it. 

[dxpavelka]

I see last year as 1984 for the Twins.  A team which had struggled for years had a decent season and got a taste of contention.  What folks tend to forget is that between the end of 84 and the start of 87 we fired 2 managers and brought in a new GM.  Molly, meet Slick Gardner.

[Mr. Brooks]

I can't speak for Paul but I'm saying that I would have probably sent Arcia up hoping he could tag one and tie it.

Nothing in Arcia's statistical history suggests he has much of a chance of hitting a HR against a lefty. (1 per 46.5 AB vs 1 per 17 AB vs righties.)

 

I want a manager who makes decisions based on logic and facts, not irrational hope.

[Riverbrian]

 

Nothing in Arcia's statistical history suggests he has much of a chance of hitting a HR against a lefty. (1 per 46.5 AB vs 1 per 17 AB vs righties.)

I want a manager who makes decisions based on logic and facts, not irrational hope.

 

The Logic and Facts currently look a lot worse than the irrational hope. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I see last year as 1984 for the Twins.  A team which had struggled for years had a decent season and got a taste of contention.  What folks tend to forget is that between the end of 84 and the start of 87 we fired 2 managers and brought in a new GM.  Molly, meet Slick Gardner.

The Twins changed ownership in June 1984.  That had more to do with the changes at GM, manager, and team president over the next 2-3 years, as opposed to the results on the field.

 

Unless Pohlad plans to sell this summer, I don't see that being a terribly apt comparison.

[longstrangetrip]

I have always been a big fan of Molitor, supported the decision to name him manager, and thought he overachieved last year.  And I generally don't find myself to be "knee-jerk" when it comes to opinions about my beloved local sports teams.  All that said, I'm a little embarrassed to side with those who think Mollie should be replaced.  Yes, he was given a bullpen that doesn't measure up with most in the league. But the bullpen wasn't exactly lights out last year either, and the team still played reasonably well.

 

It's not that the Twins are losing...it's how.  Missed cutoff men, bonehead baserunning, lack of communication in the field.  The manager needs to be held accountable for a complete team-wide breakdown.  Beyond that is an array of bizarre in-game decisions and lineup choices (last night Mollie had the 7th best slugging percentage batting third, and the 9th best OBP leading off...WHAT???).

 

I want to support Mollie, but evidence is mounting that he is not the right guy to coach a young team.  Luckily we have a guy in the system that has worked with most of these guys in their development years, and has had great success with them.  Make Doug Mientkiewicz the manager now.

 

​

 

[tobi0040]

 

The GM for the Braves gave the manager nothing to work with.  Roster is horrible.  Isn't a manager alive that could have made that clock tick.

 

Our GM hasn't given our manager a lot either.  Very poor roster construction not to mention leaving benches, and overworked bullpens, short during various games. We've also seen Molitor submit horrendous lineups and he seems to have zero feel for in-game management. 

 

Ironically, of the two GMs and two managers, the one who deserved to get fired least is the one who got just got fired.

 

That is just it.  All the coaches have already been fired and the new person hired by the GM. 

 

Here is my list, in terms of priorities of what the best outcomes would be

 

#1 - Pohlad sells the team (then 2-4 automatically happen).

 

#2 - Pohlad fires Terry Ryan and brings in a respected outsider (then 3-4 happen as well as a change in culture, analytics, and development personnel)

 

#3 - Ryan fires Bruno

 

#4 - Ryan fires Molitor

[Mr. Brooks]

Arcia wasn't in the starting lineup tonight against a pitcher against whom lefties OPS almost 300 points higher than righties.

 

I mean what is the rationale behind something like that?

[jimbo92107]

Being a great baseball player is not the same as being a great manager. As a player Paul Molitor had a powerful inner drive to succeed and do everything well. As a manager Molitor has not showed me that he is able to instill that same level of motivation in his players. 

 

Like every team, the Twins have a mixed bag of personalities on the roster. Some of them drive themselves to succeed, others need to be cajoled, threatened, yelled at, etc. 

 

After the Twins canned Ron Gardenhire, I was hoping they would pitch a trunk full of money at Terry Francona. Instead, the Twins looked inside the organization, which might seem laudable, but when they picked Molitor, I thought it could be a big mistake. Molitor always struck me as an introvert, a quiet, intense competitor. Can an introvert do the yelling and verbal manipulations that motivate a mixed group of professional athletes?

 

The apparently listless personality of this Twins squad may provide a hint of the social skills that Paul Molitor lacks as a manager. Unless you have a veteran team of self-motivated stars, a manager needs to be a naturally vocal, gregarious, at least slightly charismatic leader. Molitor is quietly intense and determined. The Twins might do better with somebody that makes more noise. 

[Mr. Brooks]

I never wanted Molitor.

The main reason being all the stuff I heard about how he never been completely sure he wanted to be a manager, almost like he would need to be sold on managing.

 

Sorry, it may be selfish, since it's probably not a healthy lifestyle, but I want someone like Thibodaux or Kill as my manager. Someone who eats, sleeps and breathes the job. Someone who is 100% sure they are doing their dream job.

I don't get the feeling that Mollie is that guy.

[USAFChief]

 

Nothing in Arcia's statistical history suggests he has much of a chance of hitting a HR against a lefty. (1 per 46.5 AB vs 1 per 17 AB vs righties.)

I want a manager who makes decisions based on logic and facts, not irrational hope.

I want Mollie gone, but...

 

what in Mastro's history suggests he has a better chance of hitting a HR against a leftie than Arcia?

[Mr. Brooks]

I want Mollie gone, but...

 

what in Mastro's history suggests he has a better chance of hitting a HR against a leftie than Arcia?

Nothing, that's why I said they are essentially the same player ( against a lefty).

 

Sure, I bet MOllie would love a HR there, but as Mick famously said, you can't always get what you want.

Personally I'd go with the guy most likely to not make an out (Polanco), and go from there.

[USAFChief]

 

I have always been a big fan of Molitor, supported the decision to name him manager, and thought he overachieved last year.  And I generally don't find myself to be "knee-jerk" when it comes to opinions about my beloved local sports teams.  All that said, I'm a little embarrassed to side with those who think Mollie should be replaced.  Yes, he was given a bullpen that doesn't measure up with most in the league. But the bullpen wasn't exactly lights out last year either, and the team still played reasonably well.

 

It's not that the Twins are losing...it's how.  Missed cutoff men (sorry about the italics...can't turn them off!), bonehead baserunning, lack of communication in the field.  The manager needs to be held accountable for a complete team-wide breakdown.  Beyond that is an array of bizarre in-game decisions and lineup choices (last night Mollie had the 7th best slugging percentage batting third, and the 9th best OBP leading off...WHAT???).

 

I want to support Mollie, but evidence is mounting that he is not the right guy to coach a young team.  Luckily we have a guy in the system that has worked with most of these guys in their development years, and has had great success with them.  Make Doug Mientkiewicz the manager now.

 

​

That's where Molitor has lost me, about a week or two ago.

 

The poor play isn't just talent related.  

 

They are really, really, really terrible at playing the game.  And that's at least partially on managing...every time.  Teams can't be bad at running the bases unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.  Teams can't continually have throwing issues from the outfield unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.  Teams can't continually be in poor cutoff position unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.

 

They are just simply too BAD at basic things that should be done almost every time at the big league level.  Teams may have better hitters than you do...but they shouldn't ever beat you consistently because you can't, won't, or don't know how to play the game.

[Ncgo4]

This talk about last year being so exceptional is a wee bit overstated. We had one crazy month where we hit about .450 with RISP. The rest of the year we were not very good at all. If the Twins had played sound fundamental ball all year, ran the bases well and were consistently in the right positions and hitting cut off men, etc. Well, OK then, but that's not the way it was. That team was often a mess, except for about 4 weeks when it wasn't.

[Boom Boom]

I wouldn't absolve Molitor of blame, but the poor decisions and bad instincts are symptomatic of a larger problem.

 

Who is coaching these guys in the minors? Why should they need to learn what base to throw to once they're up in the majors? They've been playing the game their whole lives, so how can they be so fundamentally bad?

 

This is a big reason that I'm against Doug Mientkiewicz as manager - he's worked with most of these guys and they look clueless.

[ashbury]

Missed cutoff men (sorry about the italics...can't turn them off!), ​

FTFY.

[nicksaviking]

That's where Molitor has lost me, about a week or two ago.

 

The poor play isn't just talent related.  

 

They are really, really, really terrible at playing the game.  And that's at least partially on managing...every time.  Teams can't be bad at running the bases unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.  Teams can't continually have throwing issues from the outfield unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.  Teams can't continually be in poor cutoff position unless the manager doesn't care or doesn't manage.

 

They are just simply too BAD at basic things that should be done almost every time at the big league level.  Teams may have better hitters than you do...but they shouldn't ever beat you consistently because you can't, won't, or don't know how to play the game.

Agree, and Molitor's big selling point was that he was a good teach and an ace at the fundamentals. Either that wasn't 100% accurate, or he's lost the players. Even if it's not Molitor's fault, there has to be a change.

 

It worked last time.

[Pius Jefferson]

I want Chili Davis to be the next manager. Dougie Baseball would be my second choice.

 

One thing that concerned  me about Molitor was the label of having a great baseball IQ. That doesn't always translate into being a good manager. You have 25 guys and most aren't baseball savants. You can't reach them than your baseball brain means very little. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I wouldn't absolve Molitor of blame, but the poor decisions and bad instincts are symptomatic of a larger problem.

Who is coaching these guys in the minors? Why should they need to learn what base to throw to once they're up in the majors? They've been playing the game their whole lives, so how can they be so fundamentally bad?

This is a big reason that I'm against Doug Mientkiewicz as manager - he's worked with most of these guys and they look clueless.

 

I've often wondered how anyone really knows if Dougie Baseball or anyone is a good manager without watching Chattanooga nightly and even if they did watch the Lookouts nightly... I've wondered how any could compare him to Possibility X someplace else. 

 

However... This post is one of the first times that I've read logic on the subject and thought to myself... "I can see the thought process". 

[jokin]

 

Another option... Sure but not damning evidence of mis-mangement in my opinion. 

 

Maybe not damning evidence, how about darning? And then again, you tend to be more forgiving than the average play-it-by-the-numbers Twins fan.

[Riverbrian]

I am no doubt

 

That's cuz there's more than one way to skin a cat. 

 

I've never skun a cat but that's what I've been told. 

[alarp33]

I've often wondered how anyone really know is Dougie Baseball or anyone is a good manager without watching Chattanooga nightly and even if they did watch the Lookouts nightly... I've wondered how any could compare him to Possibility X someplace else. 

 

However... This post is one of the first times that I've read logic on the subject and thought to myself... "I can see the thought process".

 

Personally, I have no idea if Dougie Baseball is a good manager. I'm intrigued by him taking over here mid-season because I want to find out. 1) The country club only hires from within it seems, so odds are he'll be in the 2017 mix if Molitor is gone. 2) Unlike Molitor, he at least has managerial experience

[Riverbrian]

 

Personally, I have no idea if Dougie Baseball is a good manager. I'm intrigued by him taking over here mid-season because I want to find out. 1) The country club only hires from within it seems, so odds are he'll be in the 2017 mix if Molitor is gone. 2) Unlike Molitor, he at least has managerial experience

 

I think Paul will be back in 2017 no matter what.

 

But... if he wasn't.

 

I think almost all of the manager candidates will do and say the same things because the majority have been following a book written a long time ago. 

 

There is only one manager I know that doesn't follow the book and has been undeniably successful and I can't have that manager. 

 

So I'll settle for the guy who has been working next to him... Dave Martinez. 

 

Just hoping I'd get something similar and that's a hire done without interview or background check. 

 

Otherwise... Jeez...  they all hit and run at the same time.

 

You just got to hope that they are at least advanced enough to actually shift when someone like Dozier bats. 

[spinowner]

I blame Molitor less than many of the people who post here. I think it's very possible he has cost the team a small number of wins this season, which would make us maybe 14-28 instead of 11-31. Not to absolve him of responsibility but this would be a bigger issue if we were in contention.

I blame Ryan less than many of the people who post here. All teams have players that perform above reasonable expectations and players that perform below reasonable expectations. We've had the misfortune of experiencing performance below reasonable expectations from too many players, especially on offense and in the bullpen. Many of the people who post here were quite optimistic about this team's roster coming out of spring training. (Look at the over/under thread. 17 of us picked over 78.5 wins and 4 picked under.) I think Ryan felt the same way--that the offense would be productive and that the bullpen would be good enough to get by. GM's can not predict the future. The good ones just make better guesses about which players will do well and which won't. The same holds for owners. The good ones just make better guesses about which GM's will do well and which won't.

That doesn't necessarily mean I think either should stay. It's pretty much universally thought that the organization as a whole is in far better shape now than when Ryan took over, but the real question is whether Ryan and Molitor are the best to manage the organization and the on-field team now and in the future.

[wsnydes]

 

I've often wondered how anyone really knows if Dougie Baseball or anyone is a good manager without watching Chattanooga nightly and even if they did watch the Lookouts nightly... I've wondered how any could compare him to Possibility X someplace else. 

 

However... This post is one of the first times that I've read logic on the subject and thought to myself... "I can see the thought process". 

It's for this reason I tend to rip Molitor more for their lack of fundamental situational awareness.  He's going to want things playing out a certain way given the circumstances of the game.  That is a bigger issue in my opinion.  Does this team lack general fundamental skills?  Yes, but for me that is more of a knock on the organization as a whole rather than a single minor league manager.    

[dxpavelka]

 

The Twins changed ownership in June 1984.  That had more to do with the changes at GM, manager, and team president over the next 2-3 years, as opposed to the results on the field.

 

Unless Pohlad plans to sell this summer, I don't see that being a terribly apt comparison.

I might bite on  that being a reason for the first management change but not the 2nd.

 

[twinssouth]

Doug M is a good Manager. He knows these players and which buttons to push. This team has no leadership and Doug M provides it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I might bite on  that being a reason for the first management change but not the 2nd.

There weren't really two "management changes."  There was nothing but interim management until MacPhail was hired in August 1985, and his first managerial hire was Tom Kelly in 1986.

 

Ray Miller was hired in June 1985 by interim GM Howard Fox, who was basically the 1985 equivalent of present-day Dave St. Peter.  For all intents and purposes, Miller was an interim manager too.

[Winston Smith]

 

Doug M is a good Manager. He knows these players and which buttons to push. This team has no leadership and Doug M provides it.

Funny he managed a lot of these guys that look totally unprepared when they come up.

[dxpavelka]

 

There weren't really two "management changes."  There was nothing but interim management until MacPhail was hired in August 1985, and his first managerial hire was Tom Kelly in 1986.

 

Ray Miller was hired in June 1985 by interim GM Howard Fox, who was basically the 1985 equivalent of present-day Dave St. Peter.  For all intents and purposes, Miller was an interim manager too.

McPhail was hired in August, 1985.  Pretty sure he would not have gone (149 games) into the 1986 season with an "interim" manager