Twins Option Berrios, Recall Taylor Rogers

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Is this not a move out of necessity?  Dean was brought up to be a long reliever - he is now unavailable for probably 3-4 days and the team needed to bring someone else up to pitch in the event of another short start- an unfortunately all too likely scenario.  

 

Dean stays up because he successfully is filling the long-reliever role, Berrios goes down to open up a roster spot.

 

I am pretty sure we have not seen the last of Berrios and, depending on Gibby's health, will see him back soon.   

 

I would not read more into this move than people are making of it.

[Thrylos]

 

Is this not a move out of necessity?  Dean was brought up to be a long reliever - he is now unavailable for probably 3-4 days and the team needed to bring someone else up to pitch in the event of another short start- an unfortunately all too likely scenario.  

 

Thus Taylor Rogers

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Berrios only had 3 starts in AAA this year.  He only demonstrated good control in 1.  Let him hone his control in AAA.

Berrios did have 12 starts in AAA last year.

 

And if 3 starts this year, 1 with control, weren't good enough -- why did we call Berrios up to MLB when we did?

 

Why call up Meyer after 3 games in AAA too, only to demote him immediately after one MLB start (in a week and a half on the roster)?

 

Why call up Kepler after 2 games in AAA, only to demote him after 2 starts (in two weeks on the roster)?

 

Why roster Buxton after only 13 games in AAA and a poor spring training (34% K rate)?

 

Why call up Polanco after 32 career games in AAA, to only start him 4 times in 3 weeks?

 

Looks to me like a pattern of desperation and hope, but no trust or plan to develop.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So much this.  Some people here have some troubling notions of player development. Repeated exposure of a struggling prospect is the bluntest of developmental tools.  Even Berrios must see that he's not getting the job done; now he can focus on getting himself right without the big league pressure to win.  

Where is this "big league pressure to win" coming from?  The manager and GM frequently benching and demoting top prospects?  Maybe they shouldn't be doing that, if they want these guys to get comfortable and develop.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Berrios did have 12 starts in AAA last year.

 

And if 3 starts this year, 1 with control, weren't good enough -- why did we call Berrios up to MLB when we did?

 

Why call up Meyer after 3 games in AAA too, only to demote him immediately after one MLB start (in a week and a half on the roster)?

 

Why call up Kepler after 2 games in AAA, only to demote him after 2 starts (in two weeks on the roster)?

 

Why roster Buxton after only 13 games in AAA and a poor spring training (34% K rate)?

 

Why call up Polanco after 32 career games in AAA, to only start him 4 times in 3 weeks?

 

Looks to me like a pattern of desperation and hope, but no trust or plan to develop.

 

If we had different beat reporters, and not (imo, basically) Twins' PR guys, someone might ask these questions......

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Is this not a move out of necessity?  Dean was brought up to be a long reliever - he is now unavailable for probably 3-4 days and the team needed to bring someone else up to pitch in the event of another short start- an unfortunately all too likely scenario.  

 

Dean stays up because he successfully is filling the long-reliever role, Berrios goes down to open up a roster spot.

 

I am pretty sure we have not seen the last of Berrios and, depending on Gibby's health, will see him back soon.   

 

I would not read more into this move than people are making of it.

Dean "successfully" filled the long reliever role once, and gave up 10 hits, 2 runs, and an inherited run, in 5.1 innings.  And now you want to remove him from that role too?  (Assuming Dean takes Berrios' next turn -- Berrios won't be eligible to return for it, Meyer is still MIA, and Gibson still has to rehab.)

 

We could've also swapped out Kintzler with a long reliever.  Wait!  Kintzler is out of options, he'd have to go through waivers, and he's been outrighted before so he could elect free agency.  Maybe we're not ready to do that...

 

Also, we're at 12 pitchers.  If we were so desperate to get another fresh long relief arm in Minnesota, we could have gone to 13 pitchers for a few days, like we did with Meyer a few weeks back.  Wait!  Mastroianni is out of options, he'd have to go through waivers, and he's been outrighted before so he could elect free agency.  Maybe we're not ready to do that...

 

Notice a pattern here?  Optioning Berrios right now is a "necessity" entirely of the Twins own making.

[Twinsbar107]

this is slightly related to promotions/demotions: not sure where else to put it. Tweets from Aaron Gleeman: 

 

Twins signed outfielder Robbie Grossman, one-time intriguing prospect whose hit tool hasn't been good enough for his on-base skills to work

 

Robbie Grossman is at Triple-A for now, but he's 26 and can play all three OF spots. Could be called up if/when Rosario/Santana is demoted.

 

just why? if this happens, who does it benefit? 

[DaveW]

I'm still waiting 4 pages later for the question:

"If the Twins are really trying to win now, why is Phil Hughes still in the rotation?"

[Brock Beauchamp]

This team, man. This team.

 

Are they trying to alienate their entire fanbase or is that just a nice side effect of losing interest in an organization that appears to be wandering the woods with a broken compass?

[wsnydes]

 

Berrios did have 12 starts in AAA last year.

 

And if 3 starts this year, 1 with control, weren't good enough -- why did we call Berrios up to MLB when we did?

 

Why call up Meyer after 3 games in AAA too, only to demote him immediately after one MLB start (in a week and a half on the roster)?

 

Why call up Kepler after 2 games in AAA, only to demote him after 2 starts (in two weeks on the roster)?

 

Why roster Buxton after only 13 games in AAA and a poor spring training (34% K rate)?

 

Why call up Polanco after 32 career games in AAA, to only start him 4 times in 3 weeks?

 

Looks to me like a pattern of desperation and hope, but no trust or plan to develop.

This.  So much this.  The way the "utes" have been treated is asinine.  Either call them up and let them play or leave them down in AAA to play.  IMO, this reeks of lack of direction and will only extend the losing.

[USAFChief]

 

   Optioning Berrios right now is a "necessity" entirely of the Twins own making.

I would say optioning Berrios is a necessity of Berrios' own making.

 

If he had shown any signs of being able to pitch in the major leagues, he'd still be here.

 

 

[jimbo92107]

So much of pitching is self-confidence. Berrios looked at that first-pitch home run and suddenly I was reminded of Tyler Duffey's first game against Toronto. Every batter looked like Babe Ruth, every pitch he threw seemed like a nothing ball right down the middle. He looked numb, passive. Sheep to the slaughter. Deer in the headlights. Me looking at a tax form.

 

Some guys can take it - the ones that grew up on the mean streets of Edina or the hell-scape of Duluth. Berrios has great stuff, but without unshakable confidence, he could continue folding under pressure. Let him get his head back on in AAA for a while. Meantime, give some of these fairly good pitching prospects a few games to show their stuff. Pat Dean looked pretty good. See what Taylor Rogers looks like. It's a year for experiments, but we don't need to break everything.

[USAFChief]

For the record, I concur 100 percent this team is operating without a plan, and makes one move after another that makes you scratch your head and wonder "what's going on here."

 

I just don't think this is one of them.  

 

Berrios was awful.  It doesn't do anyone any good to keep running him out there when he showed so little readiness for MLB competition.

[DaveW]

For the record, I concur 100 percent this team is operating without a plan, and makes one move after another that makes you scratch your head and wonder "what's going on here."

 

I just don't think this is one of them.

 

Berrios was awful. It doesn't do anyone any good to keep running him out there when he showed so little readiness for MLB competition.

Berrios wasn't awful the two starts preceding this one.

 

Moving Hughes to the bullpen makes 1,000x more sense than demoting Berrios after a bad inning.

[DaveW]

This. So much this. The way the "utes" have been treated is asinine. Either call them up and let them play or leave them down in AAA to play. IMO, this reeks of lack of direction and will only extend the losing.

Yeah, when any of the high upside prospects are called up at this point, the Twins really need to goto them and basically say this: "we are going to give you a minimum of 30 days in the majors this stint, so don't press, you have plenty of games and chances to earn your way onto this roster permanently"

 

Instead we call up guys and basically force them to play brilliantly out of the gate, any struggles and it's back to AAA for a good long time (seriously why on earth is Buxton not back on this big league club?)

[Loosey]

This organization has become a laughing stock.  Everything is so disjointed right now.  The Twins need to know this season is toast, no 15 game winning streaks are going to save this season.  Unfortunately this season needs to be about developing the future, not scrapping together rotations with Pat Dean plugging AAA cast offs into the Major League outfield. 

 

Their development of minor leaguers is fantastic in the minors, yet once they get to Minnesota they are are completely different players.  I don't believe that all of the ML struggles are due to the player not being ready for Major League competition yet.  It is the way they are handled once they are here.  Molitor/Ryan/Managment is going to ruin these guys if they continue to treat them the way they currently are.  Meyer, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco all have bright futures but are not allowed to develop their major league games.  They are allowed to play until they struggle and then are sent back down.  From July on this should be about the future and the kids.  I want Berrios, Meyer, May in the rotation.  I want Buxton, Kepler, Arcia in the outfield with Polanco in the infield with Sano.  They will probably have about a .300 winning percentage, but it will prepare them for the future.

[DaveW]

Berrios was also striking out a lot of "major league hitters" so clearly he was doing at least a little something right....

[Loosey]

 

 

Yeah, when any of the high upside prospects are called up at this point, the Twins really need to goto them and basically say this: "we are going to give you a minimum of 30 days in the majors this stint, so don't press, you have plenty of games and chances to earn your way onto this roster permanently"

Instead we call up guys and basically force them to play brilliantly out of the gate, any struggles and it's back to AAA for a good long time (seriously why on earth is Buxton not back on this big league club?)

I agree with all of what you said except the Buxton thing.  Buxton needs to learn pitch recognition and make it a permanent thing in his head.  Give him another month.

[DaveW]

I agree with all of what you said except the Buxton thing. Buxton needs to learn pitch recognition and make it a permanent thing in his head. Give him another month.

He is tearing up AAA, I believe he could learn pitch recognition in the majors. I get your point though.

 

In reality, like nearly everyone said, Buxton should have started the season in AAA, now because of terrible planning (was there ever a plan to begin with?) we have wasted 40 some odd games that he could have used to develop.

[Mr. Brooks]

Unfortunate, but necessary. He didn't have "two solid starts before this one". He's had 4 appearances, never going beyond 5.1 innings. The start against Houston was mediocre, the other 2 before last night were pretty lousy and last night was terrible. Just like everyone else, I'd love to see Berrios become a solid or better starter and help now. The evidence is pretty clear that that he's just not ready. He's given up 17 ER, 12 BB, and 20 Hits in 15 innings over 4 appearances. He needs more time. Bummer, but true.

Sorry, in the long history of baseball nothing has ever been "clear" after 15 innings. There is a reason why they play 162 games.

[Loosey]

 

He is tearing up AAA, I believe he could learn pitch recognition in the majors. I get your point though.

In reality, like nearly everyone said, Buxton should have started the season in AAA, now because of terrible planning (was there ever a plan to begin with?) we have wasted 40 some odd games that he could have used to develop.

They have no plan.  Or if they do it changes daily.  Today their plan is to use borderline MLB players with no long-term future to win a few extra meaningless games.  In 2 weeks it will be to bring up prospects and then send them down if they have a bad game.  If they treated every player like they treat prospects the Twins would have no players on the team.  Joe Mauer went 0-5 last night.  If he was a prospect he would be in AAA since he failed all 5 times at the plate in one game.

[bluechipper]

I didn't want Berrios to be sent down, especially considering there are no intriguing replacements for him right now, but what happened to your great control, Jose? That's the thing that's really bothering me right now. All he had to do was not be terrible, and he would've been given plenty of shots to stay in the rotation and never pitch in the minors again.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm pretty sure Berrios felt pretty crummy last night. Pitch location aside, the ball clearly does magical things when released from his hand. For me, a much better way of handling this would be to put your arm around him and let him know that rough outings are just part of the process and that you believe in him. Maybe mention that he should take a look around the clubhouse and notice that other players are struggling too. Not just him. It's hard to establish yourself in these circumstances. We get that. Just keep focusing on doing the things that cause success and you will get there.

 

Or, you could just kick an already hurting kid in the jejunum and tell him to go work it out in the minors.

 

We are not increasing our chances of winning by inserting someone else. Nor should we care at this point.

Post of the thread.

[jud6312]

 

This organization has become a laughing stock.  Everything is so disjointed right now.  The Twins need to know this season is toast, no 15 game winning streaks are going to save this season.  Unfortunately this season needs to be about developing the future, not scrapping together rotations with Pat Dean plugging AAA cast offs into the Major League outfield. 

 

Their development of minor leaguers is fantastic in the minors, yet once they get to Minnesota they are are completely different players.  I don't believe that all of the ML struggles are due to the player not being ready for Major League competition yet.  It is the way they are handled once they are here.  Molitor/Ryan/Managment is going to ruin these guys if they continue to treat them the way they currently are.  Meyer, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco all have bright futures but are not allowed to develop their major league games.  They are allowed to play until they struggle and then are sent back down.  From July on this should be about the future and the kids.  I want Berrios, Meyer, May in the rotation.  I want Buxton, Kepler, Arcia in the outfield with Polanco in the infield with Sano.  They will probably have about a .300 winning percentage, but it will prepare them for the future.

I agree with the sentiment here and virtually all of your thoughts ... but let's face it, Meyer, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco and - to a lesser extent - Buxton haven't actually been given a chance to play or play through struggles.

 

This organization is so scared to call this season DOA that they'll keep making changes for the sake of making changes and making it look like they're doing something until they've driven even the most loyal of fans away.

 

I think most people have been waiting so long to see these prospects that they might actually pay money to see them have a shot. The only thing guys like Logan Darnell, Pat Dean, Robbie Grossman and Darin Mastroianni will do less of than help a ballclub win is sell seats.

[Kwak]

 

I can't believe anyone can have watched Berrios' starts and think he should remain in the MLB rotation.

 

He'll be back at some point, hopefully more prepared to pitch in a big league game.  

Some posters have adopted Berrios as a future star and are blind to his shortcomings.  Some think it's OK to play "the unready" in major league games and finally some just like to complain.  Curiously there are those who howled about Buxton playing for the Twins when he "wasn't ready", but now demand that Berrios play despite worse results than Buxton's results.  Amazing!

[PseudoSABR]

 

Where is this "big league pressure to win" coming from?  The manager and GM frequently benching and demoting top prospects?  Maybe they shouldn't be doing that, if they want these guys to get comfortable and develop.

I don't think any one is imposing that on him - I imagine it's self-imposed, as a result of the big league atmosphere and perhaps some immaturity.  Is it really so hard to believe that it might be easier to 'practice' and 'tinker' in the minor leagues as opposed the majors?  Whether or not there's pressure to 'win', there's certainly added pressure from a variety phenomenon at the big league level.  This shouldn't be a contentious point.

 

I think sometimes it's too easy to forget these players are human beings, and the psychology of success is very complex.  The notion that you just keeping throwing players who have struggled mightily out there and expect them to get comfortable or develop seems like a sketchy proposition to me. 

[Thrylos]

 

Berrios wasn't awful the two starts preceding this one.

Moving Hughes to the bullpen makes 1,000x more sense than demoting Berrios after a bad inning.

 

Why do you think that the 2 of them are mutually exclusive?    Dean (who pitched better than Berrios) got Berrios' spot and not Hughes.  Gibson is still coming back.

[Platoon]

Was I satisfied with Berrios, not really. Would I have sent him down. NO! What for? Dominating AAA ball will not help you get comfortable in MLB. We just keep doing this over and over. The good news is some of us have called for the FO to give up on this year, and experiment with younger talent. This move makes it obvious that they have at least gotten as far as the first part of that wish!

[KirbyDome89]

He was dominant for half of last season in AAA and even more dominant in AAA to start this season. What else does he have to prove there? NOTHING. If he has to work out some control issues than it should be at the major league level. Seriously, this isn't a contending team that can't afford to let rookies learn on the job, the Twins are 10-27!  He had a typical 1st start against Cleveland, decent starts against Houston and Baltimore, and ONE BAD GAME against Detroit and he's out? This isn't about "getting his confidence back," or "sharpening his skills at AAA." He has done all that already. This is about an organization that doesn't know how to handle young players. Idk if its a manager who refuses to work with these kids or its a GM who finally feels some heat and is desperate to turn things around. Either way the mismanagement of this club and its prospects is laughable at this point. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed. 

[Platoon]

I don't think any one is imposing that on him - I imagine it's self-imposed, as a result of the big league atmosphere and perhaps some immaturity.  Is it really so hard to believe that it might be easier to 'practice' and 'tinker' in the minor leagues as opposed the majors?  Whether or not there's pressure to 'win', there's certainly added pressure from a variety phenomenon at the big league level.  This shouldn't be a contentious point.

 

I think sometimes it's too easy to forget these players are human beings, and the psychology of success is very complex.  The notion that you just keeping throwing players who have struggled mightily out there and expect them to get comfortable or develop seems like a sketchy proposition to me.

 

Or maybe the pressure comes from seeing the traveling secretary sitting in the dugout with travel vouchers to Rochester in hand!