Twins Option Berrios, Recall Taylor Rogers

[rghrbek]

I agree with most posters on here.   This just feels like the Twins are trying to save face here.   Not totally commit to the rebuild, for a few extra wins (which they probably won't get).

 

Pat Dean?  Andrew Albers...let's bring him up too and put him on the 40 man, cut Centeno and see if you can sneak him thru waivers.    I am not understanding the plan!

 

Either you commit to the rebuild or send all the prospects down (as Seth pointed out in another article), and just play all the washed up vets or the vets that you hope and pray you can get trade value out of (which we know for most of them there is none).

 

 

[USAFChief]

I can't believe anyone can have watched Berrios' starts and think he should remain in the MLB rotation.

 

He'll be back at some point, hopefully more prepared to pitch in a big league game.  

[mazeville]

 

He pitched pretty decently his two starts prior to yesterdays! Good lord, it's not like he was over-matched or something every time out, yeah, the walks need to come down, but why not have him work on that against MAJOR LEAGUE HITTERS instead of a bunch of bums in AAA?

 

Typical Terry Ryan move to be honest, no patience with the youngsters, anytime something goes wrong its time to hit the panic button, now instead of a young stud pitcher in the rotation we get Terry Ryan's safety blanket of the year (soft throwing pitch to contact type)

 

Four starts. 10+ ERA. He had one decent start. One mediocre start. Two bad starts. There is exactly nothing wrong with sending him down. 

 

His WHIP is 2. He's walking 7 batters per nine innings. His FIP is 7. He is pitching terribly. There is no defense of this. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Berrios only had 3 starts in AAA this year.  He only demonstrated good control in 1.  Let him hone his control in AAA.

Berrios has been the Twins minor league pitcher of the year the last two seasons.

[mazeville]

 

Because he has hung Zero's in 6 out of his 11 Innings pitched and he's done that with Control and Walks hanging around his neck. 

 

There was really no evidence of control problems in 2015 so... it's possible (I have no way of knowing) that he's pressing to impress in the big leagues and if that's the case... let him work through it. 

 

In my opinion... It's time for a new attitude when considering the youngsters. 

 

Hey! He hasn't given up runs in the simple majority of innings! Is that what we're basing things on? Really?

 

There is no statistic or measure that indicates anything but a pitcher who is clearly overmatched, or at the very least having a deer-in-the-headlights experience in the majors. 

[DaveW]

 

I can't believe anyone can have watched Berrios' starts and think he should remain in the MLB rotation.

 

He'll be back at some point, hopefully more prepared to pitch in a big league game.  

I can't believe anyone can have watched anyone but Duffey's starts and think they should remain in the MLB rotation.

[Thrylos]

 

Ugh... I don't know how this inspires confidence in any of the young players if they are immediately shipped back to AAA after a rough game. 

 

"a rough game"?

 

I counted 4.   Bottom line:  The Twins should play the players that will give them the highest possibility of winning games right now, and Berrios is not one of them.

 

MLB is not a development league.  He is going to the right place to develop.

[DaveW]

 

 

Four starts. 10+ ERA. He had one decent start. One mediocre start. Two bad starts. There is exactly nothing wrong with sending him down. 

 

His WHIP is 2. He's walking 7 batters per nine innings. His FIP is 7. He is pitching terribly. There is no defense of this. 

Two bad starts, Two decent starts. That is a helluva lot better than whatever Phil Hughes and Nolasco are going to give us going forward.

[Thrylos]

 

Berrios has been the Twins minor league pitcher of the year the last two seasons.

 

a.  Operating word here is "minor"

b. You are familiar with the curse of the people who have been named that, correct?  And it is twice as bad for Berrios...

[DaveW]

 

 

.   Bottom line:  The Twins should play the players that will give them the highest possibility of winning games right now,

And how is that working out for them this year? Additionally, are you claiming that Pat Dean in the rotation gives them a better shot than Berrios because...oh boy.

[Rosterman]

I'm surprised Alex Meyer isn't back instead to start in 6 or 7 days. I think he's well rested.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

a.  Operating word here is "minor"

b. You are familiar with the curse of the people who have been named that, correct?  And it is twice as bad for Berrios...

It tells me Berrios needs experience in MLB. Maybe he pitches from the bullpen for a while. Hangs out and talks ball with Ervin Santana. Soaks it all in.

 

Do you think Berrios has anything left to prove by pitching two more months in Rochester?

[Thrylos]

 

Two bad starts, Two decent starts. That is a helluva lot better than whatever Phil Hughes and Nolasco are going to give us going forward.

 

The only "decent game" (with above average game score) is the game at Houston and only because of the strikeouts.  He lasted only 5 innings, walked 5 and gave up 3 hits including 2 HRs.   

 

Not sure that this is decent.   Part of it was the opponent

[Thrylos]

 

And how is that working out for them this year? Additionally, are you claiming that Pat Dean in the rotation gives them a better shot than Berrios because...oh boy.

 

Because he did yesterday.  If he does not do tomorrow, Gibson is up.

[gocgo]

 

How was it not necessary?

 

Something is clearly not clicking. His ERA is sky-high - it was well over 6 with an unusual 5 BB/9 before he started, and then he gave up eight runs in the first inning.

 

Get him down, rebuild his confidence, and have someone else start. 

Rebuild his confidence? 

 

First of all, if one bad start shakes his confidence, there's nothing in AAA that is going to help that.

 

Second, if his confidence wasn't shaken, sending him down to AAA after a bad start might do just that.

 

There is nothing to be gained by sending him down other than to open up a spot for a veteran to get some starts....and hopefully build trade value.

[nicksaviking]

 

How was it not necessary?

 

Something is clearly not clicking. His ERA is sky-high - it was well over 6 with an unusual 5 BB/9 before he started, and then he gave up eight runs in the first inning.

 

Get him down, rebuild his confidence, and have someone else start. 

 

What can he learn in AAA that he can't in the majors?

 

Because at this point Wins and Losses in 2016 should be among the last concerns anyone has for this club. It should all be about Wins and Losses in 2017 and beyond.

[Thrylos]

 

It tells me Berrios needs experience in MLB. Maybe he pitches from the bullpen for a while. Hangs out and talks ball with Ervin Santana. Soaks it all in.

Do you think Berrios has anything left to prove by pitching two more months in Rochester?

 

Apparently he needs to regain his control and learn to keep the ball in the park.  You cannot haul pitchers out who are not competitive in the majors so they "learn".  That's what the minors are for.  You can hide a gold glove, bad hitting SS or CF, but not a pitcher with 10+ ERA, without hurting the team.

 

It is all about winning.  The minors are for development

 

[Mike Sixel]

If Neil Allen is the best pitching coach they have, Berrios should, imo, be here.......

[Vanimal46]

 

"a rough game"?

 

I counted 4.   Bottom line:  The Twins should play the players that will give them the highest possibility of winning games right now, and Berrios is not one of them.

 

MLB is not a development league.  He is going to the right place to develop.

I'd argue that Berrios was trending in the right direction after the Houston start. 2 solo shots against Baltimore wasn't a big deal, then this last game was a train wreck. I would have rather see him bounce back at the MLB level instead of seeing Pat freaking Dean on the mound. 

[rghrbek]

 

What can he learn in AAA that he can't in the majors?

 

Because at this point Wins and Losses in 2016 should be among the last concerns anyone has for this club. It should all be about Wins and Losses in 2017 and beyond.

 

This, exactly this!     What does it matter if the Twins end up with 62 wins, 64 wins or 68 wins?    The playoffs and respectability are lost this season.    As the guy formerly known as Mike Wants Wins used to say "Those wins (or lack there of this year) are banked."

 

There is no miracle May happening this summer, look to the future.   Berrios continuing to succeed down in AAA, while not taking his lumps and learning from it in the show...it does not make sense.

[nicksaviking]

 

MLB is not a development league.  He is going to the right place to develop.

 

Why? The Twins used it as a developmental league in the early 80s and late 90s. When the big club is terrible, why not let the young guys learn how to compete against MLB players instead of AAA players?

 

What good is 70 Wins in 2016 going to do anyone as opposed to 60 Wins?

[HitInAPinch]

I'm not following the "1 bad game" commentary:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/32811/jose-berrios

 

He needs some work on varying the speeds of his pitches.  Last night, everything looked pretty much the same.

 

Still, I probably would have given him another start. 

[twinsnorth49]

Just another example of the lack of any discernible plan. Seriously where are they going  and how is it they are trying to get there? I honestly have no ****ing clue and it leaves me with very little faith in anybody in this org.

 

Trying not to be hyperbolic but it's really discouraging to see the team just floating in the breeze to nowhere, it's a waste. 

[Thrylos]

 

Why? The Twins used it as a developmental league in the early 80s and late 90s. When the big club is terrible, why not let the young guys learn how to compete against MLB players instead of AAA players?

 

What good is 70 Wins in 2016 going to do anyone as opposed to 60 Wins?

 

Because, if you are building an attitude of "its ok to lose this season", a loser is all you are going to be.

Like these Minnesota Twins.

 

You have to play to win every game, every season and do not accept losing. 

 

[DaveW]

 

Just another example of the lack of any discernible plan. Seriously where are they going  and how is it they are trying to get there? I honestly have no ****ing clue and it leaves me with very little faith in anybody in this org.

 

Trying not to be hyperbolic but it's really discouraging to see the team just floating in the breeze to nowhere, it's a waste. 

Yup, it's pretty clear that Ryan just really doesn't give a damn anymore and is just coasting towards his eventual retirement (whenever he decides on a whim to hang it up again with little to no notice) There really is no other explanation.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yup, it's pretty clear that Ryan just really doesn't give a damn anymore and is just coasting towards his eventual retirement (whenever he decides on a whim to hang it up again with little to no notice) There really is no other explanation.

 

I am not a huge believer in TR......but this is unfair, imo.

[USAFChief]

 

I'd argue that Berrios was trending in the right direction after the Houston start. 2 solo shots against Baltimore wasn't a big deal, then this last game was a train wreck. I would have rather see him bounce back at the MLB level instead of seeing Pat freaking Dean on the mound. 

I'd argue he hasn't looked good in any of his four starts.

 

In any case, he'll be back.  Let him get his feet on the ground, breath, and then come back.

 

Getting his brains beat out won't do anyone any good.  

 

People are right that a few extra wins in 2016 won't matter, so even if Berrios IS better right now--which he isn't--that's an argument AGAINST leaving him here rather than one FOR it.

[gocgo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to a plan of sending Berrios down and having him work on control or whatever.  To me, send a bunch of guys down.  Have them work on their game and then bring them up to stay after the trade deadline.  What's driving me nuts is the constant yoyo between majors and AAA.

[DaveW]

 

Because, if you are building an attitude of "its ok to lose this season", a loser is all you are going to be.

Like these Minnesota Twins.

 

You have to play to win every game, every season and do not accept losing. 

 

Yet they continue to trot out Nolasco and Hughes 40% of the time, Suzuki 80% of the time and continue to give Jepsen high leverage work. Hmmmmmmm.....

[nicksaviking]

Berrios' biggest issue was his control, which has never before been an issue. If he's having issues locating, it's likely due to nerves, you don't get over that in AAA with 500 people in the stands.