Middle IF

[mudcat14]

Polanco got pulled before the end of last night Red Wing game.  Hopefully to catch a plane to Chicago and not because he too got hurt.  With Escobar likely headed to the DL and with Dozier's tweaked whatever, Jorge better get a real chance this time.  He is and has been in everybody's Top 100 for a while now.  Which is something Dozier, Escobar, Nunez or Santana could never say.  What's the point of being dead last in the league if you can't give a legitimate prospect an extended shot?

[Twinsbar107]

yeah I hope he gets a real shot as well, At this point how can it hurt?

[beckmt]

Part of the process of finding out what the Twins have.  Twins need to find out if Polanco can hit and field at the major league level, I believe he will handle 2nd base just fine.  With the swing and miss in most of the Twins hitters, Dozier could be packed for something good and Polanco would be more than an average replacement.

[mudcat14]

 

 Dozier could be packed for something good and Polanco would be more than an average replacement.

 

At this point, I don't know that Doz would bring that much.  To bad our staff couldn't make a move last winter when the Cubs, Mets, Nats & Yanks were all bringing in new 2B and Brian's All-Star season still had the illusion of luster.  I used to compare him to Dan Uggla, but that's not fair.  Uggla had six productive years before he fell off the map.  Dozier is far short of that. 

[beckmt]

 

At this point, I don't know that Doz would bring that much.  To bad our staff couldn't make a move last winter when the Cubs, Mets, Nats & Yanks were all bringing in new 2B and Brian's All-Star season still had the illusion of luster.  I used to compare him to Dan Uggla, but that's not fair.  Uggla had six productive years before he fell off the map.  Dozier is far short of that. 

There were several of us posters who advocated that move. 

[nicksaviking]

Polanco needs to play every day, they can rotate him between 2B-SS-3B if that's what it takes. Dozier/Nunez/Plouffe can take turns on the bench.

[HitInAPinch]

 

At this point, I don't know that Doz would bring that much.  To bad our staff couldn't make a move last winter when the Cubs, Mets, Nats & Yanks were all bringing in new 2B and Brian's All-Star season still had the illusion of luster.  I used to compare him to Dan Uggla, but that's not fair.  Uggla had six productive years before he fell off the map.  Dozier is far short of that. 

Potential buyers would also look at Dozier's back-ended contract:

 

"three arbitration seasons at a cost of $3 million in 2016, $6 million in 2017, and $9 million in 2018"

 

For a guy that plays decent defense and is still try to yank almost everything, I'd have a problem with the 6M in 2017.  2018 would be tough to swallow.

 

Here's hoping the Owners and Management keep there word!

[Riverbrian]

 

There were several of us posters who advocated that move. 

 

At the trade deadline last year. Dozier was an All-Star.

 

He would have fetched a nice package for sure. 

 

But I have no idea how anyone would make that trade when the Twins were firmly in contention. 

[Riverbrian]

With Polanco... I hope he gets some playing time. 

 

If Dozier is still ailing... He just might...  

 

I'm betting Plouffe is going to get games to see if he can get his timing back. 

 

Nunez is hot so he needs to play in my opinion. 

 

Dozier is the one that needs to give up the playing time. 

[jorgenswest]

On Dozier...

 

I don't think Dozier's contract will scare off anyone. Those three years of Dozier is close to what the Tigers paid for Pelfrey over two years. It is all about his performance. If he performs well, he has trade value and the Twins would be wise to keep him in his reasonable contract. If he doesn't play well, he has no value to the Twins or anyone else.

 

On Polanco...

 

Shouldn't teams have a clearer understanding of a players ability to defend at SS based on their minor league career? Polanco has nearly 3000 innings at shortstop in the minors. I get that hitting major league pitching is a huge jump from hitting in AAA. Is fielding a major league ground ball, catching a major league pop up, turning a major league double play or executing a major league cut off hugely different than their minor league versions? The Twins should have a pretty good idea now whether Polanco can play SS at the major league level. They shouldn't need to see him at this level. On the other hand, they apparently needed to see Plouffe at SS in the majors before realizing that he is not capable of that position. Can Polanco handle SS at the major league level? The Twins should already know. Can he hit major league pitching? Time will tell.

[beckmt]

I see Polanco as more of a 2nd baseman, not SS.  Twins have those coming and Escobar is a good player for the timebeing.  Twins have 3 months to move off the older players, see if they can do it.

Remember 1984 was followed by 1985-1986 where the Twins were bad before they became good in 1987.  1991 was preceded by 1990 were the Twins finished last.  The late 1990's where small payroll, rookies up until the Twins became good again in 2001.  It is not a straight line to contention year in and year out.

Still would like to see 2 or 3 of the starters in Fort Myers to be moved up to Chattanooga. This will bring them closer to the majors and let the Twins see what they can do at that level.  A fair amount of the upper level starters are retreads and filler at this time,  no need to be afraid to make changes.

Twins need to move 1 - 2 of their starters to make room.  In the next 3 months this should not be hard as injuries will certainly make need for some contending clubs to give the Twins more than a bag of balls for some of their veteran major league pitchers.

[crapforks]

 

On Polanco...

Shouldn't teams have a clearer understanding of a players ability to defend at SS based on their minor league career? Polanco has nearly 3000 innings at shortstop in the minors. I get that hitting major league pitching is a huge jump from hitting in AAA. Is fielding a major league ground ball, catching a major league pop up, turning a major league double play or executing a major league cut off hugely different than their minor league versions? The Twins should have a pretty good idea now whether Polanco can play SS at the major league level. They shouldn't need to see him at this level. On the other hand, they apparently needed to see Plouffe at SS in the majors before realizing that he is not capable of that position. Can Polanco handle SS at the major league level? The Twins should already know. Can he hit major league pitching? Time will tell.

I think there's a disconnect between whether the team can adequately say that a player is ready for a ML position based on their minor league track record, and whether the player is actually ready. We saw that with Plouffe and Dozier at short when they first came up. Neither were ready to be big league shortstops for whatever reason, despite having logged significant time manning the position in the minors. I suppose it could be the mental side of the promotion affecting their play, or maybe its related to ML hitters making more consistent hard contact. Whatever the reason, there is precedent for concern that a player with a long history of manning the position in the minors can come up here and surprise everyone with their inability to play, no matter how many within the organization have seen them play it, or for how long.

[dxpavelka]

 

Potential buyers would also look at Dozier's back-ended contract:

 

"three arbitration seasons at a cost of $3 million in 2016, $6 million in 2017, and $9 million in 2018"

 

For a guy that plays decent defense and is still try to yank almost everything, I'd have a problem with the 6M in 2017.  2018 would be tough to swallow.

 

Here's hoping the Owners and Management keep there word!

Some teams like to be competitive after the All-Star break so there's that.

 

[stringer bell]

Escobar disabled, so the trio of Dozier, Polanco and Nuñez will man the middle infield for next two weeks or more. Dozier is a good player, Nuñez has had a good run and is still playing pretty well and Polanco needs to play this time around. I think all three should get enough playing time. May the better pair get the most time.

[stringer bell]

To expand on my earlier comment, Nuñez has warranted regular playing time on the basis of his play so far this year. Unless and until he cools off, he should be in the lineup almost every day, including playing third occasionally for Plouffe. Plouffe sits at .686 OPS, Dozier is .689 and Polanco has 10 at-bats. One of the four can sit every day while Escobar heals.

[Linus]

I wonder if they will give Polanco a shot at short? I have a bad feeling that my guy Eddie Escobar isn't the answer.

[stringer bell]

 

I wonder if they will give Polanco a shot at short? I have a bad feeling that my guy Eddie Escobar isn't the answer.

Escobar had two good half seasons plus as the everyday shortstop. I don't think we should ignore that. However, he has been a part of this year's team's failure to this point. He hasn't hit much at all since the first week and his defense has been poor, something I didn't anticipate. Escobar's strength as a defender is not making mistakes and he's already made a bunch over and above the five errors he has been charged.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

At the trade deadline last year. Dozier was an All-Star.

 

He would have fetched a nice package for sure. 

 

But I have no idea how anyone would make that trade when the Twins were firmly in contention. 

 

This, and if you sell high on everyone, you're always going to be selling.  Even with his second half declines, Dozier has been one of the best 2B in baseball the last two years.  Expecting Polanco to match that production right away (or quite possibly ever) is pretty lofty, not to mention the drop off in production at the position when the team is at the cusp of contention. 

[nicksaviking]

This, and if you sell high on everyone, you're always going to be selling.

 

That sounds a tad optimistic about this club.

 

I was thinking selling high on a player here could happen once every three, four years tops.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think anyone expects Polanco to be great right away. I, for one, would like the twins to spend a lost season finding out what they have.

[HitInAPinch]

I had heard here and other places that Polanco didn't have the arm to play shortstop.  Watching him play 3rd and 2nd, I don't believe that to be true.  Escobar makes for a very fine transitional SS.  There's time to wait on Polanco.

[ashbury]

I had heard here and other places that Polanco didn't have the arm to play shortstop.  Watching him play 3rd and 2nd, I don't believe that to be true.  Escobar makes for a very fine transitional SS.  There's time to wait on Polanco.

My own memory from watching him in spring training a year ago was that either 1) when he threw it on a line from SS to the first baseman it would be a little short and the first baseman would have to make a scoop, or else 2) he threw it hard enough to reach the area of 1B on the fly but it would be inaccurate to the left or right. Close to enough arm, but just shy of it - distance or accuracy, but not both.

 

However maybe he's improved. Coaching, strength training, or simply physical maturation all seem possible at his age.

 

I happened to watch him Friday night at Pawtucket and he made a couple of poor decisions at 2B, though not charged with an error. I really need to write up a game report.

[Pardon My Dinger]

I don't think anyone expects Polanco to be great right away. I, for one, would like the twins to spend a lost season finding out what they have.

I kinda do.

[Pardon My Dinger]

...but I'm also what doctors refer to as "kind of an idiot."

[nicksaviking]

I had heard here and other places that Polanco didn't have the arm to play shortstop. Watching him play 3rd and 2nd, I don't believe that to be true. Escobar makes for a very fine transitional SS. There's time to wait on Polanco.

It seems to me the projected skills of SS's is too often a crapshoot and usually based off of what would be an elite defender. Escobar's arm wasn't supposed to be strong enough, Dozier was supposed to be able to cut it, JJ Hardy's foot speed and the expected lack of range probably would have made 20 of the 30 teams to move him from the position long before he made the majors.

 

I'd bet that a shortstop who can sling it over to first at 90 MPH can get 99% of the runners out that a guy who can sling it 95 MPH can.

 

I'd think fundamentals are much more important.

[Riverbrian]

 

It seems to me the projected skills of SS's is too often a crapshoot and usually based off of what would be an elite defender. Escobar's arm wasn't supposed to be strong enough, Dozier was supposed to be able to cut it, JJ Hardy's foot speed and the expected lack of range probably would have made 20 of the 30 teams to move him from the position long before he made the majors.

I'd bet that a shortstop who can sling it over to first at 90 MPH can get 99% of the runners out that a guy who can sling it 95 MPH can.

I'd think fundamentals are much more important.

 

Bingo

[ashbury]

Yeah, essentially everybody's got the arm strength to sling it from the left side of the infield to first. Hell, I have a terrible arm, but one time I got roped into playing third base in Vintage ball, where it's like slow-pitch but the bases are the full regulation 90 feet, and I surprised myself by getting a routine 5-3 out. (One time, I said - literally. There were other plays. )

 

It's whether you can do it consistently, time after time, with accuracy and strength. Fundamentals.