How many consecutive losses would it take to get Molitor/Ryan fired?

[notoriousgod71]

Any guesses?

 

If this team manages to lose their first 12 or 15 games does anything happen?

 

 

20?

 

30?

 

75?

[beckmt]

My guess is for better or worse with the hitting issues Bruno would be first.  It took like 20 straight losses to get Cal Ripen Sr. fired in Baltimore. 

Last thing for the GM is change and feeling the new GM would have to make trades, some of those trades could be very bad,

[Ncgo4]

Probably too many. Especially if we find out that neither Molitor or Ryan can hit a lick.

[Mr. Brooks]

Terry Ryan chooses how long he will be the GM, not the team.

Lifetime contract. Both sides have said as much.

Country Club organization.

There was never a managerial search, it was just a formality. Molly had the job before Gardy finished cleaning out his desk.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Terry Ryan chooses how long he will be the GM, not the team.

Lifetime contract. Both sides have said as much.

Country Club organization.

There was never a managerial search, it was just a formality. Molly had the job before Gardy finished cleaning out his desk.

Praying that's not true

[h2oface]

I second the Terry Ryan boot, but I don't agree with we need more average vets. And I would love to see Mientkiewicz, too. I wanted him instead of Molitor last year. Maybe this is the reason for all of this. To finally get the house cleaned. How long can Pohlad take this?

[Ultima Ratio]

22

[Mike Sixel]

I cannot see them ever firing Ryan.

[ashbury]

5-55 with runners in scoring position is a trend not a mirage.

365-1305 for a .280 BA in 2015, compared to a .227 BA with bases empty. Were you lobbying for a contract extension for Ryan after last season, based on these clutch results?

[Hrbowski]

No reason to make the Ryan boot when a new GM won't fix anything. Molitor will be fired if the Twins lose 20 in a row.

[Kwak]

Not long ago, Houston spent a lot less money to be this bad.

[DocBauer]

I am as frustrated and disappointed as anyone, but a quick reality check, please. At this point last season, almost, the Twins were 1-7, and looked absolutely terrible. I mean, almost embarrassing and it was a wonder they won a single game.

 

Am I a fan of the moves TR has made, and not made, the past two off seasons? Absolutely not. But after their putrid start, they righted the ship and began to play better ball and won 83 games and we're in contention up until the final week. Despite being a very disappointing and frustrating 0-6, this team has already played better than the 2015 version, and on paper at least, looks better and has better potential.

 

To even contemplate 0-whatever is kind of unrealistic isn't it?

[jimmer]

Don't worry, the 20 win month of May is just around the corner like last year.

[jimmer]

 

Despite being a very disappointing and frustrating 0-6, this team has already played better than the 2015 version

 

Want to elaborate?

[Danchat]

 

Want to elaborate?

Did you watch those first games last year? Sure, they won one, but they got smashed in the other games. So far the Twins have had much closer games compared to 2015's beginning. The wins will come eventually.

[h2oface]

None of what happened last year is an indicator of anything that will happen this year. It is almost as hard to lose this much as it is to win the 7 in a row. Long season... blah blah blah....... there is some bad karma being taken out on this team. I don't know what it is, but something is terribly out of whack. Plus, whether you lose by 10 or 1, it is all about the result. Period. I could fool myself, and lie to myself, but i prefer not to.

[jimmer]

 

Did you watch those first games last year? Sure, they won one, but they got smashed in the other games. So far the Twins have had much closer games compared to 2015's beginning. The wins will come eventually.

No, I was too busy preparing my house for moving.

 

In any event, I wanted him to elaborate.  He didn't specify (or I just didn't put two and two together) that he was talking about the same time frame as last year in his post, he just said the 2015 version.  And I'd still want to hear HIS reasoning. Is that too much to ask since he stated it?  He's very articulate and more than capable of doing so.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I am as frustrated and disappointed as anyone, but a quick reality check, please. At this point last season, almost, the Twins were 1-7, and looked absolutely terrible. I mean, almost embarrassing and it was a wonder they won a single game.

 

Am I a fan of the moves TR has made, and not made, the past two off seasons? Absolutely not. But after their putrid start, they righted the ship and began to play better ball and won 83 games and we're in contention up until the final week. Despite being a very disappointing and frustrating 0-6, this team has already played better than the 2015 version, and on paper at least, looks better and has better potential.

 

To even contemplate 0-whatever is kind of unrealistic isn't it?

Hey we almost made it! Moral victories just another #TerryRyanThings

3 teams ever have made the playoffs after an 0-7 start.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Want to elaborate?

 

Dan spoke for himself but imo there might be more of a mentality in close losses to think a the breaks will start going your way versus being blown out and knowing you need to get your act together.

 

[jimmer]

 

Dan spoke for himself but imo there might be more of a mentality in close losses to think a the breaks will start going your way versus being blown out and knowing you need to get your act together.

Danchat spoke for himself, but it wasn't Danchat who said it originally it was DocBauer, so all hands on deck to answer, I guess :-)

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Danchat spoke for himself, but it wasn't Danchat who said it originally it was DocBauer, so all hands on deck to answer, I guess :-)

 

Live and learn. I do stand by my theory though.

[DocBauer]

No, I was too busy preparing my house for moving.

 

In any event, I wanted him to elaborate.  He didn't specify (or I just didn't put two and two together) that he was talking about the same time frame as last year in his post, he just said the 2015 version.  And I'd still want to hear HIS reasoning. Is that too much to ask since he stated it?  He's very articulate and more than capable of doing so.

I take that as a compliment Jimmer. I think. LOL

 

2015 we opened on the road for 6 games against the Tigers and Chisox. Both teams, as I recall, we're expected to be at least decent, though they didn't necessary turn out that way. The results:

 

0-4 L

0-11 L

1-7 L

6-0 W

4-5 L

2-6 L

 

13 Runs scored, 33 given up. Average margin in losses, 5.2 runs. (Shudder)

 

2016 through 6 games:

 

2-3 L

2-4 L

2-4 L

3-4 L

0-7 L

3-4 L

 

12 runs scored, 22 runs given up. Average margin in losses, 3.66.

 

Is this a happy thing? Absolutely not. And truthfully, I can't recall any of the 2015 losses well enough to remember if we were competitive or not, or held any leads or not. But memory, and memory of eye-test had us looking pretty darn lousy.

 

The talent level of the 2016, flaws and all, still would seem to exceed the early '15 team. The competitive nature of the games played, the closeness of the losses, the average margin of losses, all would seem to indicate this lousy begining is still better than the lousy begining to 2015. Look, lousy is lousy. But through 6 games last year vs this year, we are only down 1 game, and would still seem to have a better roster to work with going forward.

[Vanimal46]

According to Aaron Gleeman on Twitter, this is the lowest amount of runs scored in the first 7 games in Twins history.. You can put a positive "moral victory" spin on this all you want. At the end of the day it's a historically bad start to a season.

[ckrolak]

I see everyone above Paul Molitor as the problem.  The Pohlads should fire Terry Ryan and, then, sell the team to someone who wants to put a winning product on the field.

[beckmt]

Still back to the same topic.  Pitching wins.  Twins bullpen has not been good enough vs the league. If you look at the box scores the team leading after 6 is winning in the 90% range.  Twins have had 4 games in the range(tied or leading) and lost all 4.  If this continues another week, bring up a group of the fireballers.  \

 

I would also like to see Dougie manage here, nothing against Paul, but just the fire and holding players responsible would help.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Dan spoke for himself but imo there might be more of a mentality in close losses to think a the breaks will start going your way versus being blown out and knowing you need to get your act together.

Interesting thought.

[DocBauer]

Can I just make a few comments about Ryan, in regard to this post and it's initial intent?

 

I think TR has done a he'll of a lot in his career for our favorite team. I think he is a tremendous baseball man. After a few bumps in the road early in his career, this professional scout really found his niche and put together some great Twins teams that were competitve, went on wining runs, and competed as wellong as any team in baseball...overall. Especially considering some of his initial constraints. In the world of sport, we all yearn for our team to be the champion. It is, after all, the ultimate achievement that every team strives for, and every fan roots and hopes for. But I truly believe it is misguided, as well as short sighted, to ultimately find failure in not winning the ultimate prize. It still remains true, IMO, that the contest, the competition to be the best in which we see greatness. No matter the sport, or the level of such, only ONE TEAM ever comes out on top.

 

As an analogy, I find it absurd to say that great QB in NFL history like Tarkenton, Marino and Fouts, to name a few, are lesser QB or lesser HOF players because they didn't win a Super Bowl. So while TR has yet to win a WS, I think to call him a poor GM because his best teams failed to win a WS is a mistake.

 

That being said, and despite being a long admirer and defender of his work, I think this is a make or break year for him, and the Twins organization. There is a great Blog piece on TD by D-Mac that I think everyone should read.

 

Despite my support for TR and his body of work, and respect for such, we are absolutely at a crossroads. I have liked many of his moves since he assumed the GM post again. And while all of his moves have not paid off...at least not yet...he has been much bolder in his actions. Do I think, at this point, he should be "urged to step down"? No. But his moves, and lack thereof, the past 2-3 years in regard to the CF and bullpen simply can't be ignored. He has gambled and lost expecting both spots to be filled by prospects promoted too early, or, hoping for fast progression.

 

Buxton is here, and I believe in him given time and patience. But still, haven't we been rolling this position to "whoever" the past few seasons? We've had success with inexpensive RP in the past who have paid huge dividends. But is that really what a team on the cusp of truly competing needs to push them over the edge? Please don't try to tell me that using Fien's $2+Mil plus another $5-8M for a pair of top quality RP would haven broken payroll. And when the young RP studs do make it up, hopefully soon, unless the bottom of the market just falls out, don't tell me the Twins wouldn't have trade partners.

 

Ultimately, with the Santana and Hughes signings, (Hughes shouldn't have been extended no matter what), the Nolasco signing became superfluous. And it's really a shame, because his contract could have been applied to a major trade or FA signing. But we need to stop dropping the "everything is wrong because of" card on one player and one move. It's just not true.

 

What will be ultimately deciding TR as the Twins GM is what happens this year. I respect the attitude of not giving in, of not accepting failure, or a true rebuild state of thinking. But the simpleft fact is....the Twins HAVE BEEN rebuilding. But at some point this season, with arms like Berrios, Duffey, and a slew of talented RP getting very close, with big stuff, and May stuck in the pen when he also has SP potential, the Twins may be in the envious but uncomfortable position to trade away veteran assets to make room for the future. (Yes, this may also include Plouffe to make room for Kepler) These kind of decisions/moves may determine the length and legacy of Ryan as the Twins GM.

[USAFChief]

Lets hope we don't find out.

[Badsmerf]

Look, i couldn't disagree with everything you said any more. There is no legacy of Terry Ryan. All there is, are a handful of mediocre teams that were blown out in the playoffs. Let's just end it there.

 

This thread is the type of thing i think about, but try not to. I wish this organization was run differently, I'm sure we all do. At some point new people might run this team, I'd prefer it sooner than later. The problem is it shouldn't have taken this long to make a change.

 

The season is a week old. I'm still hoping for a turn around.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Interesting thought.

 

Thank you.