Winter Meetings: Wednesday Thread

[DaveW]

 

Big, big mistake, IMHO, unless TR can pull another rabbit out of his cap the way he used to.

When was this "used to" in terms of free agency?

[DaveW]

 

 

Raja Davis isn't an ideal candidate simply because his OB% would limit him as a lead off option. But I think he would be an excellent short term fill in at CF with the ability to be a 4th OF and PR off the bench. Thus far, he only has one year with 500+ AB's, and only two with 400+, so I don't know that he's necessarily looking to hold out for a guaranteed starting job.

 

I've read a few...umm...rumors or innuendo, I don't know which, that speculates a trade with the Padres of Nolasco for Kemp could be an option. I'm actually really intrigued by this idea. But does anyone have Kemp's contract numbers available? I don't have them at the moment.

 

But Kemp in the OF more than replaces Plouffe's bat, and allows Sano to stick at his more natural 3B position. This helps fortify the OF defense, while it may weaken the left side of the infield a bit. In the long run, I think that is an overall positive, especially considering how much of our pitching staff works. And then, obviously, it allows for a Plouffe trade for prospects, or to fill another need somewhere.

Kemp takes a lot of heat for his contract, but other than an injured filled 2013 he has been pretty damn effective.

 

If we could dump Nolasco in a deal would gladly take Kemp back (San Diego might need to toss in 10 -12 mil) as he is a sure thing to hit 25-30 HR, put up  a .760-.775 OPS and steal 10 bags.

 

At that point you have Kemp for 4 years and 40 mil effectively (after the 10 million and dumping Nolascos contract)

 

Basically Torii Hunter contract but actually able to hit

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

 Milone and Nolasco need to earn their roster spots.

Pretty sure  Nolasco does not.

[AWOLNATION_11]

 

Kemp takes a lot of heat for his contract, but other than an injured filled 2013 he has been pretty damn effective.

 

If we could dump Nolasco in a deal would gladly take Kemp back (San Diego might need to toss in 10 -12 mil) as he is a sure thing to hit 25-30 HR, put up  a .760-.775 OPS and steal 10 bags.

 

At that point you have Kemp for 4 years and 40 mil effectively (after the 10 million and dumping Nolascos contract)

 

Basically Torii Hunter contract but actually able to hit

 

Pretty much all of Kemp's offensive value has been wiped out by negative defensive value in recent years.   I'd rather deal with Nolasco for two more years and not Kemp for four.

[DocBauer]

 

When was this "used to" in terms of free agency?

Burton...Fien...Guerrier...Swindell...Wells...Fiore...Reyes...Breslow?...would be a few over time that cost little to nothing, seemed to come off the scrap heap, and performed well to very well for a couple of seasons.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I also have a question, since the Twins have a high probability of losing Zach Jones to the Rule 5 draft tomorrow, can they trade him to a team and can that team then add him to the 40 man roster? Or is he locked from being added to the 40 man?

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe 40 man rosters were locked down a few weeks ago.

 

I suspect the Nov. 20 deadline is just for protecting the players in your own organization as of Nov. 20, and you are still free to protect other players you acquire by trade or free agency after that date.  Probably doesn't come up too often anyway, as Rule 5 eligible players generally don't have much trade value regardless of date.

[Baseball Bat]

My goals before the winter meetings:

 

1. Sign a good to elite level set up man

2. Somehow get rid of Ricky Nolasco

3. Add a Fourth Outfielder

 

 

My goal now:

1. For Terry Ryan to prove he is actually at the Winter Meetings and not at a bowling alley

[ashbury]

Plouffe has great road splits?

Uh, no. Something else he and CarGo share.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I suspect the Nov. 20 deadline is just for protecting the players in your own organization as of Nov. 20, and you are still free to protect other players you acquire by trade or free agency after that date.  Probably doesn't come up too often anyway, as Rule 5 eligible players generally don't have much trade value regardless of date.

Yeah, you're probably right. The rules during this time of year are odd and to be frank, I don't care enough to go look them up because it doesn't matter.

[Vanimal46]

 

My goal now:

1. For Terry Ryan to prove he is actually at the Winter Meetings and not at a bowling alley

 

If only I was good at photoshop..... A thread of photoshopped TR pics where he's not at the Winter Meetings would be classic.  

[DocBauer]

 

My goals before the winter meetings:

 

1. Sign a good to elite level set up man

2. Somehow get rid of Ricky Nolasco

3. Add a Fourth Outfielder

 

 

My goal now:

1. For Terry Ryan to prove he is actually at the Winter Meetings and not at a bowling alley

Hmmm....anyone know if Hrbek has any charity tournaments going on this week?

[jimmer]

 

Big, big mistake, IMHO, unless TR can pull another rabbit out of his cap the way he used to.

When was that again? 2003 or so? The Lirano/Nathan/Bonser trade?

[nicksaviking]

 

From La Velle Neal's lastest article post

"The Twins remain in the hunt for a lefty reliever, but I was told that Tony Sipp and Antonio Bastardo aren't their targets. Double-checking that one."

 

http://www.startribune.com/winter-meetings-update-on-nolasco-pitching-targets-extra-outfielder/361305111/

 

 

Triple check it La Velle.

 

Unless he's looking to trade, there should be no other targets.  I would rather the team give the job to Taylor Rogers sight-unseen than any of the other LH free agents. 

 

My money is on junkballer Joe Thatcher who miraculously is able to miss bats with an 84 MPH heater yet still managed a 4.8 BB/9 last year.

 

Either way, before we find out who gets signed, let's collectively take a deep breath and remember that sarcasm doesn't do anyone any good.  Let's express our disappointment civilly!

[Mike Sixel]

 

If only I was good at photoshop..... A thread of photoshopped TR pics where he's not at the Winter Meetings would be classic.  

 

that would be funny, and we could move all these non-serious posts too!

[Linus]

that would be funny, and we could move all these non-serious posts too!

Great idea. Somebody start a clever Terry Ryan jokes thread and then the rest of us can read comments about the thread topic. And because sarcasm is usually lost on the Internet "clever" was clearly sarcastic.

[jimmer]

 

that would be funny, and we could move all these non-serious posts too!

A baseball chat site is no place to have fun :-)

[Winston Smith]

Online baseball forums are a waste of time. Get over yourself.

But I like wasting my time here. Having a little fun while wasting time is much better than being mad while wasting time, imo.

[Pardon My Dinger]

But I like wasting my time here. Having a little fun while wasting time is much better than being mad while wasting time, imo.

Yup.

[clone52]

 

Kemp takes a lot of heat for his contract, but other than an injured filled 2013 he has been pretty damn effective.

 

If we could dump Nolasco in a deal would gladly take Kemp back (San Diego might need to toss in 10 -12 mil) as he is a sure thing to hit 25-30 HR, put up  a .760-.775 OPS and steal 10 bags.

 

At that point you have Kemp for 4 years and 40 mil effectively (after the 10 million and dumping Nolascos contract)

 

Basically Torii Hunter contract but actually able to hit

 

 

Your math is off.  Kemp is owed 87 million over the next 4 years.  Nolasco is owed 25 million.  San Diego would have to throw in $22 million to make it a 4/40 contract.

 

Plus, the Twins don't need a a $10 million outfielder.  Assuming they keep Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Walker, they probably aren't in the market for an outfielder like Kemp.  He'd just be tying up $10-15 million in roster money.

 

He might be useful in 2016 if Buxton isn't ready to go.  However, with Sano, Buxton and Rosario, the OF is kind of set.  If Sano moves to 3B in 2017, they still have Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Adam Brett-Walker as possibilities.

 

Even if they need another OF, could they spend the $10-15 million on another guy?

 

At this point, they're halfway through Nolasco's contract.  They're really only eating 2 more years of his contract.  At this point, a 2/24 contract is not some albatross weighing down the entire team.

 

If they needed an OF, then yeah, trade him for Kemp.  If they really think they need another SP, trade him for James Shields.  However, I don't think they need another OF or SP, so I think both of those are bad moves.

 

If there was a decent C out there with a bad contract, they could make that trade.  If there were a good reliever with a bad contract, they could make that move.

 

Here are some possible options I wouldn't be opposed to.

1.  Keep Nolasco and eat the cost.  Maybe he recovers and has some value as a starter or reliever.

2.  Trade him for Ryan Howard.  Same cost, but only stuck with Howard for 1 year.  Put Howard on the bench as a power hitting pinch hitter.  Plus, much more likely to be able to trade Howard at the deadline for something (but would probably have to pay his salary either way).

3.  Trade him to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier.  Saves the Dodgers some money.  Ethier is only under contract through 2017.  It'd be like signing him for $5 million/year.

4.  Trade him to the Padres for Melvin Upton.  Padres save a little money and Upton is only signed through 2017.  Basically this would be like signing Melvin Upton for $4 million a year to be a 4th OF with some upside.

5.  Trade him to the Phillies for Matt Harrison and see if Harrison recovers from his injuries.  Saves the Phillies $2 million, so they'd probably do it.  If I were the Twins, I'd pay $2 million to roll the dice with someone not named Ricky Nolasco.

6.  Trade him to the Braves for Nick Swisher.

[Ncgo4]

Every day TR fails to make a trade I become a happier person. I am more positive that one or two of Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Stewart, etc. will pan out than will one of TR's 38 YO reclamation projects. Plus this isn't the year anyway, it's more likely that 2017-8 will be our year.

[jimmer]

 

 Plus this isn't the year anyway, it's more likely that 2017-8 will be our year.

That time frame gets pushed back every year.  Wasn't long ago that people (after TR came back) were saying 2014, then 2015 and then 2016.  

[Thrylos]

Looks like the Twins traded Logan Darnell and Jeff Wheeler to the Yankees for LHP Justin Wilson.

 

Nope.

 

The Tigers traded RHPs Louis Cessa and Chad Green for him.   (They were the Tigers' 6th and 19th prospects according to MLB.com, and I'd probably add 10 or so to those numbers for equivalency in the Twins' system...)

 

 

Another hard throwing pitcher in the Tigers pen, instead of the Twins'...

Cannot imagine how Terry Ryan could not better that trade, for a guy who fits his main goal to a T.

[sane09]

Of course Ryan is not at the Winter Meetings!!

Ryan will be there on December 21, WHEN WINTER BEGINS!!

Baseball holds Spring Training in winter and winter meetings in autumn. 

Never let an umpire read a calendar!

It's autumn now, but nobody in MLB was notified.

[clone52]

 

Looks like the Twins traded Logan Darnell and Jeff Wheeler to the Yankees for LHP Justin Wilson.

 

Nope.

 

The Tigers traded RHPs Louis Cessa and Chad Green for him.   (They were the Tigers' 6th and 19th prospects according to MLB.com, and I'd probably add 10 or so to those numbers for equivalency in the Twins' system...)

 

 

Another hard throwing pitcher in the Tigers pen, instead of the Twins'...

Cannot imagine how Terry Ryan could not better that trade, for a guy who fits his main goal to a T.

 

You could be right that Ryan dropped the ball.  Or maybe Yankees scouts valued Cessa and Green more than the general consensus.  Maybe Ryan offerred Burdi and Reed and the Yankees said no.

 

Teams don't look at mlb.com rankings when deciding who to trade.  They look at their own scouting/ratings.

[zchrz]

 

Your math is off.  Kemp is owed 87 million over the next 4 years.  Nolasco is owed 25 million.  San Diego would have to throw in $22 million to make it a 4/40 contract.

 

Plus, the Twins don't need a a $10 million outfielder.  Assuming they keep Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Walker, they probably aren't in the market for an outfielder like Kemp.  He'd just be tying up $10-15 million in roster money.

 

He might be useful in 2016 if Buxton isn't ready to go.  However, with Sano, Buxton and Rosario, the OF is kind of set.  If Sano moves to 3B in 2017, they still have Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Adam Brett-Walker as possibilities.

 

Even if they need another OF, could they spend the $10-15 million on another guy?

 

At this point, they're halfway through Nolasco's contract.  They're really only eating 2 more years of his contract.  At this point, a 2/24 contract is not some albatross weighing down the entire team.

 

If they needed an OF, then yeah, trade him for Kemp.  If they really think they need another SP, trade him for James Shields.  However, I don't think they need another OF or SP, so I think both of those are bad moves.

 

If there was a decent C out there with a bad contract, they could make that trade.  If there were a good reliever with a bad contract, they could make that move.

 

Here are some possible options I wouldn't be opposed to.

1.  Keep Nolasco and eat the cost.  Maybe he recovers and has some value as a starter or reliever.

2.  Trade him for Ryan Howard.  Same cost, but only stuck with Howard for 1 year.  Put Howard on the bench as a power hitting pinch hitter.  Plus, much more likely to be able to trade Howard at the deadline for something (but would probably have to pay his salary either way).

3.  Trade him to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier.  Saves the Dodgers some money.  Ethier is only under contract through 2017.  It'd be like signing him for $5 million/year.

4.  Trade him to the Padres for Melvin Upton.  Padres save a little money and Upton is only signed through 2017.  Basically this would be like signing Melvin Upton for $4 million a year to be a 4th OF with some upside.

5.  Trade him to the Phillies for Matt Harrison and see if Harrison recovers from his injuries.  Saves the Phillies $2 million, so they'd probably do it.  If I were the Twins, I'd pay $2 million to roll the dice with someone not named Ricky Nolasco.

6.  Trade him to the Braves for Nick Swisher.

 

Sign me up for 3-6, depending on how many years Swisher has that is. 

[DaveW]

7. Just cut his worthless butt now and save a roster and 40 man spot for someone who can contribute and earn a contract.

[DaveW]

 

Your math is off.  Kemp is owed 87 million over the next 4 years.  Nolasco is owed 25 million.  San Diego would have to throw in $22 million to make it a 4/40 contract.

 

Plus, the Twins don't need a a $10 million outfielder.  Assuming they keep Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Walker, they probably aren't in the market for an outfielder like Kemp.  He'd just be tying up $10-15 million in roster money.

 

He might be useful in 2016 if Buxton isn't ready to go.  However, with Sano, Buxton and Rosario, the OF is kind of set.  If Sano moves to 3B in 2017, they still have Buxton, Rosario, Kepler and Adam Brett-Walker as possibilities.

 

Even if they need another OF, could they spend the $10-15 million on another guy?

 

At this point, they're halfway through Nolasco's contract.  They're really only eating 2 more years of his contract.  At this point, a 2/24 contract is not some albatross weighing down the entire team.

 

If they needed an OF, then yeah, trade him for Kemp.  If they really think they need another SP, trade him for James Shields.  However, I don't think they need another OF or SP, so I think both of those are bad moves.

 

If there was a decent C out there with a bad contract, they could make that trade.  If there were a good reliever with a bad contract, they could make that move.

 

Here are some possible options I wouldn't be opposed to.

1.  Keep Nolasco and eat the cost.  Maybe he recovers and has some value as a starter or reliever.

2.  Trade him for Ryan Howard.  Same cost, but only stuck with Howard for 1 year.  Put Howard on the bench as a power hitting pinch hitter.  Plus, much more likely to be able to trade Howard at the deadline for something (but would probably have to pay his salary either way).

3.  Trade him to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier.  Saves the Dodgers some money.  Ethier is only under contract through 2017.  It'd be like signing him for $5 million/year.

4.  Trade him to the Padres for Melvin Upton.  Padres save a little money and Upton is only signed through 2017.  Basically this would be like signing Melvin Upton for $4 million a year to be a 4th OF with some upside.

5.  Trade him to the Phillies for Matt Harrison and see if Harrison recovers from his injuries.  Saves the Phillies $2 million, so they'd probably do it.  If I were the Twins, I'd pay $2 million to roll the dice with someone not named Ricky Nolasco.

6.  Trade him to the Braves for Nick Swisher.

Ah yeah, I didn't realize it was that far off, good point.

Good alternatives too.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

 

If the Twins use Davis as a platoon player, he'd be useful.  I still prefer Chris Young (and Ryan Raburn if Buxton starts the year in CF and the Twins instead have Rosario as the back up CF) but Davis can hit lefties.

 

None of these guys should be used against righties though, so I really hope this interest means the Twins plan on embracing who ever their free agent right handed OF is as a bench/platoon guy. It would be smart baseball as Rosario, Arcia and Kepler could all use a right handed complement.

 

Chris Young is off the market (signed with Boston) but he would have been a good pickup. For what's out there and what the Twins need, though, Davis looks like a totally decent fit. I wouldn't be surprised if they embraced a platoon strategy - they at least have to recognize that their outfield looks lefty-heavy if Arcia sticks with the team. But if Buxton isn't ready and they need someone to be an everyday CF for a few months, Davis would be OK.

[Buxton out of Trenchtown]

To Plouffe or not to Plouffe, that is the question.  I like Plouffe's bat but I think it would be wise to use him for pitching depth.  The twins could go about this a couple ways.  They could trade Plouffe for a higher end closer/setup man, or they could package Plouffe, Berrios, and maybe a Kepler/Arcia for a No.2 starter or possible No. 1.  Giving up Berrios and Kepler are not on my wish list,  but if it would mean getting a proven elite starter such as Jose Fernandez than I think I could live with the decision.  If its not Jose than I would take berrios out of the equation of course. 

 

What I would not like to see is Kepler, Rosario, Buxton, Sano, and Arcia sharing time in the outfield.  I just can't wrap my head around Sano in Right field  taking time away from developing Kepler and or Arcia into  everyday outfielders. Whats everyone thoughts on this?

 

[Thrylos]

Looks like the Twins signed a free agent today...