Berardino: Vargas Drawing Interest In Asia

[HitInAPinch]

I'm not at all sold on Park.  The video I've seen, he looks to be teeing off on weak Korean pitchers.

Read this column from Charley Walters:

 

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_29118127/charley-walters-byung-ho-park-has-ton-power

 

Drop-down to the part where Jack Hannahan talks about the difference in Korean and MLB pitchers.  Just based on that, I think I'd keep Vargas over Park. 

[Vanimal46]

From the Twins standpoint, they should do everything to ensure he stays with the organization. Going to play in Asia should be a last ditch effort if he can't latch onto an MLB team.

For Vargas, who knows maybe he didn't grow up dreaming of playing in the MLB. Maybe he just wants to play professional baseball and make the most money while he can playing the sport. Unless he's a late bloomer, he probably won't get the big money contract at any point, and playing overseas could pay him more. 

Overall a tough situation for the Twins.  

[Mike Sixel]

Well, from the Twins' side, they should keep him as insurance against Park and Mauer (yes, talking about Mauer makes sense, sorry) not playing well. There is no upside to letting him go for a bit of money. None. 

 

It would not shock me if Vargas could out OPS Mauer. It wouldn't shock me the other way either. But there is no reason for a team that wants to contend for the next few years to cut a guy with this power, when he has options. 

 

For Vargas, it might make a ton of sense to go and make some serious cash.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Park is signed, with Mauer and Sano already in the fold, Pinto and Arcia out of options, Walker coming on to the 40-man roster, and Kepler capable at 1B too, Vargas might barely be Plan D at DH/1B.  That kind of guy has a pretty tenuous hold on a 40-man roster spot regardless of options remaining (see Chris Colabello last winter).  If you think he could get cast aside for a FA signing, a Rule 5 pick, or even a waiver claim over the next few months, it might make more sense to cash him in for something now.

[Clyde123]

Interesting article.  

 

Does anyone know if the Twins sell Vargas to an Asian team and he plays out his contract in Asia then returns to the States is he then a free agent or still property of the Twins?  If he is a free agent, can there be either a binding or wink-wink deal that, when/if  he does come back, it will be to the Twins since they are foregoing an option year to let him develop while making good money?

 

Also, did anybody read anything into Radcliff's comment that Arcia wants to be an MLB star?

[twinsnorth49]

Is it reasonable to have a thread in Vargas' future with the team without considering the dismal production at firstbase. The ranked 13th in the AL last year and have a player in decline at the position. Vargas is a potential solution.

Sure, but if it turns into another " Mauer sucks and should give back half his salary because he's soft and always injured and always looks at 1st pitch and is terrible at 1st base and the Twins should never have signed him to that contract anyway and even though Bill Smith did it it's really Terry Ryan's fault thread ",

 

Then consider it unreasonable and not on topic, which will result in a warning point. And so will any further discussion about why that is, unless you want to do it in a pm.

[Shaitan]

 

Interesting article.  

 

Does anyone know if the Twins sell Vargas to an Asian team and he plays out his contract in Asia then returns to the States is he then a free agent or still property of the Twins?  If he is a free agent, can there be either a binding or wink-wink deal that, when/if  he does come back, it will be to the Twins since they are foregoing an option year to let him develop while making good money?

 

 

I assume he'd become a free agent because the Twins sell his rights, they don't rent them. Albers was a FA. for example.

[dxpavelka]

Of course its a good idea.  It's a GREAT idea.  Until he comes back to MLB and it's not.  Has happened before and will happen again.  If it didn't what would all the fans who think he has no chance to amount to anything going to have to whine about 4-5 years down the road?

[gil4]

 

Trade him to the Red Sox, Ortiz can't be around much longer.

Next stop, HoF.  We really need a dislike button for even suggesting this.

[Hrbowski]

 

Next stop, HoF.  We really need a dislike button for even suggesting this.

I was kidding.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The quotes from Berardino suggest the Twins really push Asia to players, more than other teams -- why?

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/11/16/twinsights-kennys-vargas-drawing-interest-from-asian-club/

 

I sorta get it with the older AAA guys, but even then, we sold Albers over there, he was terrible, and he made MLB again his first season back. We tried to sell Colabello, but he declined and had a productive MLB season in Toronto. Kris Johnson was sold to Japan too.

 

And now it seems we are broaching the topic with both Vargas and Arcia at a much younger age? What gives? Are we really helping all these guys or hindering them?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I suppose one could call it a courtesy to a younger guy who isn't in the long term plans, but I don't see how this helps the org.  Arcia (as he's out of options) I could see more than Vargas, especially if they were to go out and sign an OF, but in all reality, I don't get it.  Arcia still has a reasonable chance of being a good major leaguer.  Vargas may not be quite as good with the bat, but with options left, he's still quite useful to the org. 

 

It isn't as though there's another Sano whose only position is DH sitting in the high minors. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I suppose one could call it a courtesy to a younger guy who isn't in the long term plans

I thought that too, but the sheer volume of recent instances suggest the Twins aren't targeting this opportunity, but rather pushing it on most 40-man guys who aren't in their plans, guys who are obviously still good enough to get claimed on waivers but just not return anything in trade at the moment.  Like, the Twins want to reclaim the 40-man spot, but want to get more in return than the waiver price.

 

Maybe the Twins even think they are doing these guys a favor in the process, and the guys even appreciate it, but it's hard to thinking that way exclusively knowing how we benefit financially from the arrangement.

[sane]

.

 

the guys even appreciate it, but it's hard to thinking that way exclusively knowing how we benefit financially from the arrangement.

The players DO appreciate it because they can make so much more money in Asia....NOT because they think (or even care) that the Twins are NOT doing it for altruistic motives

[mikelink45]

Vargas has more value if the Twins move in to the trade market with some real hopes of doing something significant.  Vargas power plays well in the majors and he can be coupled with a couple more expendable, but good minor leaguers, Plouffe and Nolasco in an interesting grab bag that might interest some team that is looking for changes - Miami?  

[big dog]

 

I sorta get it with the older AAA guys, but even then, we sold Albers over there, he was terrible, and he made MLB again his first season back. 

Well...the Blue Jays called him up for one game in May, where he pitched 2.2 innings.  Then he went back to the minors and did not return to the majors.  So he didn't make MLB for very long.  I think any money we got for Albers was good money.  We'd have been better off selling Colabello's rights, too, rather than just letting Toronto claim him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The players DO appreciate it because they can make so much more money in Asia....NOT because they think (or even care) that the Twins are NOT doing it for altruistic motives

It's not always "so much more money."  When we tried to sell Colabello, first-year foreign player salaries were capped at $300k in Korea.  That rule was abolished before we sold Albers, but reports were that Albers only received a salary in the "high six figures".  Which is nice, but I'm not sure it's that much better than staying on a 40-man roster and making a minimum of $82k in AAA and prorated $500k during any time spent in MLB (not to mention MLB service time, which impacts pension and benefits as well as potential future MLB salaries).

 

Colabello turned it down, a year away from arbitration Arcia has turned it down, and I'm not sure that Albers doesn't feel some regret about it, even if he ultimately appreciated the cash and opportunity.  Given his 2012-2013 performances, had Albers been claimed by a bottom feeding MLB team in 2014, he would have stood a good chance at getting at least a few months MLB time, which could have big pension effects for him down the road.  As it was, he had a rough year in Korea, probably affecting his opportunities upon his return too.

[Linus]

With an option left it makes no sense. Send him to Rochester and hope he flourishes.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Well...the Blue Jays called him up for one game in May, where he pitched 2.2 innings.  Then he went back to the minors and did not return to the majors.  So he didn't make MLB for very long.

Considering he was coming off a terrible year in Korea, getting any MLB service time and further time on a 40-man roster was a pretty good outcome for Albers in 2015 (not to mention, getting that playing for his home country's team in Toronto).

 

Had he been exposed to waivers in 2014 rather than sold, he almost certainly would have been claimed by a team offering a better opportunity to get MLB service time.  Not a ton, assuming he had similar injury/performance problems, but probably a few months (similar to Colabello's 2014) which could have been worth decent cash and pension benefits.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think any money we got for Albers was good money.  We'd have been better off selling Colabello's rights, too, rather than just letting Toronto claim him.

That's my point -- it may benefit the Twins, but I don't think it's a clear benefit to the players, and I'm not comfortable if the Twins are pushing this more aggressively than other clubs.

[sane]

That's my point -- it may benefit the Twins, but I don't think it's a clear benefit to the players, and I'm not comfortable if the Twins are pushing this more aggressively than other clubs.

The players can decline it if THEY feel it is not what they want. The Twins can only offer the opportunity, not deportation.

[sane]

 

It's not always "so much more money...Albers only received a salary in the "high six figures".  

You understand that "high six figures" can be $999,999.99 or a penny short of $1M.

If he stays in the minors, his wife will need a job.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The players can decline it if THEY feel it is not what they want. The Twins can only offer the opportunity, not deportation.

I understand the Twins aren't literally forcing anyone to go to Asia, but they do seem to be pushing it more than other clubs.  They may not be giving the player an accurate representation of their chances and opportunities if they stay in the states.  Notice how they're only selling these players without sending them through waivers?  (At least, without sending them through waivers without the gentlemen's agreement among MLB clubs not to claim players headed to Asia?)

 

It might look more proper if the Twins let the player clear waivers first, without any agreement for him to sign in Asia, then outrighted them if unclaimed.  If it is their first outrighting, the Twins would still retaining their rights for the year.  Then, only after MLB clubs have had an honest chance at claiming the player, you should reach an agreement to let the player sign in Asia.

 

You risk the player being claimed by another club, and that club potentially getting the sale benefits, but that money probably isn't even a drop in the bucket of MLB finances and shouldn't be much consideration here.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You understand that "high six figures" can be $999,999.99 or a penny short of $1M.

If he stays in the minors, his wife will need a job.

Somehow, I doubt they'd use the term "high six figures" to describe "a penny short of $1M" but feel free to believe otherwise.  Personally, I'd also call anything at or above $750k to be "high six figures" in this context.

 

If he stays in the US, either on the Twins 40-man roster or claimed by another team for their 40-man roster, he would make $82,000 a year in the minors.  I don't think his spouse would need employment at that sum (although his spouse probably already had employment given his earlier minor league salaries, and probably wouldn't sacrifice said employment for any short-term baseball gig regardless of salary).

 

FWIW, Albers did not have a spouse at the time.

 

"Albers’ family and his girlfriend Laura Desjardins from the Toronto area — the pair met a few years ago at the annual Baseball Canada banquet — made the long trip from Saskatchewan and Ontario to Korea."

 

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/19/canadian-albers-seeks-permanent-home-with-blue-jays

 

[gil4]

 

I was kidding.

I was too, mostly.  I remember the rationale for letting Ortiz go and was at best indifferent, at worst in agreement.  He was stuck behind Morneau, he was going to get too much money in arbitration, friction between him and the coaching staff (IIRC - that might have come out later or just been speculation) ... the Red Sox got him for much less than the Twins would have had to pay.   

 

Still, if Vargas goes to Boston and puts up Ortiz-like numbers, it's going to be your fault for suggesting it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

the Red Sox got him for much less than the Twins would have had to pay.   

Not really true.  The Red Sox gave Ortiz a guaranteed $1.25 million that winter.  Jeremy Giambi was a second-time arbitration eligible player that winter too, and he only got $2 mil for 2003 with comparable stats and experience to Ortiz.  (Actually Boston traded for Jeremy Giambi and his arbitration salary the day before we released Ortiz.)

 

Also, as an arbitration eligible player, only one-sixth of that contract would have been guaranteed.  The Twins could have signed him for $2 mil, and released him in spring training owing him only ~$300k if we wanted (assuming no one else was willing to claim or trade for the full contract).  

 

Keeping him at least a little bit longer would have been the more prudent move even without hindsight, considering Ortiz was the same age as LeCroy and they were coming off of 118 and 94 wRC+ seasons, respectively.  (And in the second half of 2002, Ortiz was even better -- his ISO ranking 8th, SLG and OPS 11th, and wRC+ 14th in the AL during that time.)

[USAFChief]

Also, a nitpic, but Ortiz was not stuck behind Morneau. Ortiz left two years before Morneau was a full time player.

[Mike Sixel]

Cool, another Ortiz thread. These are even more annoying than Mauer threads, imo....

[Otto von Ballpark]

Sorry, didn't mean to contribute to the Ortiz hijack!  But there is often a lot of misinformation spread about the circumstances surrounding his release.  Certainly no one could have predicted a HOF type career for him, but at no point did it look like a terribly wise move.

 

To bring it back on topic, I wonder if we ever approached Ortiz about going to Asia?

[sane]

 

To bring it back on topic, I wonder if we ever approached Ortiz about going to Asia?

Every year since he went to Boston!