Schwarber for Berrios

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

Obvious this is contingent on Schwarber playing catcher for the Twins.

 

After watching the playoffs, it became obvious he's a bad fit for the NL. LF isn't his thing and the Cubs have Montero in as their catcher. Schwarbers defensive stats at C were average and he can still obviously improve (only 22 years old). His bat, though, plays anywhere. Left-handed power would be a great addition to the Twins.

 

So, Cubs need pitching. Twins need a catcher. Would Berrios be too much to give up? Too little to make the trade happen? If not, who else? Who instead?

 

IDK. Thought it'd make for a good discussion.

[RedBull34]

He's a gamble to be a below-average C.  While the bat is nice, with Park in the fold (presumably) there really is nowhere to put him if he were to fail at C (a large chance).

 

I also don't think the Cubbies would do this deal, noting their preference for FA Pitcher's and Self-Developed Position Prospects.

 

Verdict: Too Risky a gamble on Schwarber's glove.

[Mike Sixel]

Interesting idea, really.

 

Generally, hitters are safer and more valuable than pitchers. But, Ace type pitchers have extreme value. The goodness of this trade depends on how you view their two futures, can Schwarber stay at C, and will Berrios be one of the 20 best SP in baseball?

 

I don't know, but it's an interesting topic. I bet most here say no, since we tend to over value our prospects.

 

 

[gunnarthor]

I'd do it in a heartbeat but the Cubs wouldn't.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Oswaldo Arcia is a far better outfielder than Kyle Schwarber.

[Otto von Ballpark]

His bat plays anywhere, but he can't play OF for the Cubs?  Also, Montero is nice but he's only signed for two years and the Cubs could easily transition him to a backup role or trade him.  And I don't see the Cubs giving up talent to get a pitcher, they will likely just bid for one on the open market.

 

That said, if the Twins think he can be a full-time catcher, I think Berrios a roughly even swap.  But then we'd probably need pitching (most of our SP upside potential is tied up in Berrios), and great pitchers are expensive FA. I'd rather just risk some cash on a catcher FA signing like Wieters (and realistically, whatever you lose in offensive upside compared to Schwarber you might gain in confidence behind the dish).

 

We could though perhaps get Montero for some spare parts, if not right now maybe during 2016 assuming the Cubs transition Schwarber to full-time catcher (not sure if they will, though).

[Mike Sixel]

From today's chat, sort of related:

 

Comment From The Dude
Schwarber for Kluber: who hangs up first?

 

Dave Cameron
Indians. Kluber is worth more than that.

 

[bluechipper]

The Twins can sign a guy with Scwarbers value(when you factor in the bad defense). They are extremely unlikely to get many chances at guys with ace potential. This trade would be too risky, but I'll admit it made me think about it for a second.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Twins can sign a guy with Scwarbers value(when you factor in the bad defense). They are extremely unlikely to get many chances at guys with ace potential. This trade would be too risky, but I'll admit it made me think about it for a second.

 

Which FA catcher would that be? BTW, next year's FA class (as a whole) looks brutally uninteresting....

[Winston Smith]

I'm not sure a team with poor pitching should trade the best pitching prospect they have. Duensing for Scwarbers would work, however.

[amjgt]

Based on our trade with Arizona, players that own a Catcher's mitt, hold a lot of value.

[nicksaviking]

I think the Cubs are toward the end of the "draft and develop" stage of their rebuild..  They have money to spend, if they want another starter, they're going to get a big time free agent, not speculate on another prospect.

 

I'd also think that if the Twins would be OK making Schwarber a full-time catcher, they would have at least given Pinto another shot.  They didn't, so I'd think the Twins are probably after a more traditional catcher.

[bluechipper]

 

Which FA catcher would that be? BTW, next year's FA class (as a whole) looks brutally uninteresting....

They can spend $60M on a guy like Matt Weiters ore make a trade for a guy like Lucroy without giving up a top 15 overall prospect. They aren't going to spend $150M on an ace or give up top prosepects to trade for one.

 

Is Kyle Schwarber even a catcher long term?

[Mike Sixel]

 

They can spend $60M on a guy like Matt Weiters ore make a trade for a guy like Lucroy without giving up a top 15 overall prospect. They aren't going to spend $150M on an ace or give up top prosepects to trade for one.

 

Is Kyle Schwarber even a catcher long term?

 

The entire premise of the thread was "would you do this if you think Schwarber is a catcher".........

[bluechipper]

 

The entire premise of the thread was "would you do this if you think Schwarber is a catcher".........

Oh, I missed that. So even if he's an average defensive catcher, I still wouldn't want to give up a potential ace to get him.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

I started the thread only really looking at Schwarber. But with Berrios, if we had a magic ball and knew what these guys become in the future, if he's a #1, than no way you do the deal. But if he tops out as a #2/3 and Schwarber's 2015 is his average (extended over a full season mind you), do you do it then?

[bluechipper]

 

I started the thread only really looking at Schwarber. But with Berrios, if we had a magic ball and knew what these guys become in the future, if he's a #1, than no way you do the deal. But if he tops out as a #2/3 and Schwarber's 2015 is his average (extended over a full season mind you), do you do it then?

If I knew Berrios was a 2/3, then you would have to do it. Schwarber's per 162 numbers last year would have totaled 38 HR and an .842 OPS.

[Darius]

Very interesting.  

 

I think it depends on a few things we're not privy to, mostly if they plan to go after a pitcher in free agency.    Personally, I don't like the idea of running Milone or Nolasco out as fixtures of the rotation.  Shipping off Berrios would eliminate the only real depth option they have if (more likely when) one of them implodes.  Not only that, but I think he can be very good.  He seems to elevate his game and succeed at every stop.  

 

Also, I can't really speak on Schwarbers abilities behind the plate.  We don't really need another DH/RF candidate.  If he's awful behind the plate, I'd pass.

 

The Hermann move seems to indicate there is some kind of move coming at catcher at some point.  Realistically, I'd like to sign Mathis, who can control the running game a little.  Possibly Avila, which would add a little left handed pop at the bottom of the order, without being totally inept defensively.  Both would be very cheap options (hence realistic for this team).

 

[Dance with Disco Dan]

I am big believer that Schwarber is an elite bat (regardless of position).  I am a big hoper that Berrios is an elite starter.  I'd do the trade. 

[Vanimal46]

I'm just not sure Schwarber's going to get that chance for his glove to catch up to his bat. Clearly his hitting is MLB ready, but his fielding, especially at C, would probably need more seasoning in AAA. No way he's going to be sent down to the minors just to work on his fielding behind the plate. 

 

Overall both Berrios and Schwarber are top end talents, but I'd probably say no to the deal. Blake Swihart for Berrios on the other hand.......

[Mike Sixel]

Cubs are not giving up Schwarber for Berrios, this deal doesn't have a chance of happening.

That wasn't the question.....but it's interesting, because some people are saying they'd not do it from the Twins' side....

[jsteve96]

no way they give up a star Catcher for just Berrios

[nicksaviking]

 

no way they give up a star Catcher for just Berrios

 

Sure, but what about a RF.  I'm of the opinion that if a guy can't nail down the catcher position at 22, he almost certainly won't when he's 25.  Rare is it that players graduate to a more difficult position, it's almost always the opposite.

 

If the Twins would be OK with the defense, they'd probably give Pinto another shot.

[jsteve96]

 

Sure, but what about a RF.  I'm of the opinion that if a guy can't nail down the catcher position at 22, he almost certainly won't when he's 25.  Rare is it that players graduate to a more difficult position, it's almost always the opposite.

 

If the Twins would be OK with the defense, they'd probably give Pinto another shot.

I'm of the kind that look at the reports and see that he's an average catcher not a right fielder

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

The Twins won 83 games and missed the WC by three games with a catcher who was bad defensively and terrible offensively. Suzuki put up 0.3 WAR over the entire season. Schwarber put up 1.8 in 69 games. That's 4.0 over 162 games (which would have led the Twins this past year).

 

I'll take whatever defense he's got at catcher with his bat.

[jimmer]

With the abundance of young stud (and potential stud) position players the Cubs have, I think they would jump at that trade.  I would hope we would laugh.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

 

With the abundance of young stud (and potential stud) position players the Cubs have, I think they would jump at that trade.  I would hope we would laugh.

 

Well, they'd laugh now. They have John Ryan Murphy!

[old nurse]

 

The Twins won 83 games and missed the WC by three games with a catcher who was bad defensively and terrible offensively. Suzuki put up 0.3 WAR over the entire season. Schwarber put up 1.8 in 69 games. That's 4.0 over 162 games (which would have led the Twins this past year).

 

I'll take whatever defense he's got at catcher with his bat.

The negative impact of the leagures worst defensive catcher might not show up on the WAR numbers.  His numbers as a catcher could be less. Over a full season a lot less batting while playing catcher.  One projection had him closer to a 3 over a full season.

On the other hand if Berrios has the kinds of numbers he had in the minors, he is well over a 4 war pitcher.

[ashbury]

Based on our trade with Arizona, players that own a Catcher's mitt, hold a lot of value.

We're sitting on a gold mine with Josmil Pinto, then.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Oswaldo Arcia is a far better outfielder than Kyle Schwarber.

 

He might be a better catcher too I'm joking here, but the reason Schwarber is up is b/c of his bat.  It's also the reason he's in LF.  They could leave him down there and develop him as a C or get him up now in the OF.  Schwarber is not a good C.  I wouldn't trade Berrios for Schwarber b/c at the end of the day, Schwarber won't be catching.