Paul mad! Paul smash!

[Mike Sixel]

Get mad.  I love it.  DON'T throw at his head or anybody else's but a nice fast ball to the glute or ribs on another occasion would be fine with me.  Acting like punk and celebrating are different things.  It is a bit childish to get mad about a bat flip but so what?  Folks have been saying for years that there is not enough fire in our clubhouse.  There is fire and that is too much?  I say turn it up.  I wish that Fryer had met him 15 feet up the 3rd base line (see Brian McCann and Carlos Gomez).  Shrugging it off and being a perfect gentleman is not going to get the team to first place.

You have any evidence that getting mad at the other team actually leads to wins?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Maybe another reason the kid was excited, besides the fact he doesn't hit a lot of HR, is because the Twins had walked the previous batter to get to him even though there was already two outs so there was no strategic reason to do so? 

 

You mean besides setting up force plays and short throws to the bases and not facing Cleveland's best hitter?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Nobody got upset when Puckett showed some emotion rounding the bases after ending game six.

Nobody gets upset about teams and players celebrating a walk off win.

Nobody gets upset about a pitcher fist pumping after a huge K to end a threat.

They get upset when actions AREN'T borne from emotion.

Which was the case in this instance.

 

Yeah, there might be a little difference between a walk-off homer in Game 6 of the World Series and a 3-run homer to make the score 10-1 in a late September game.

[HitInAPinch]

MLB is still very much a sport of unwritten rules.  Young players like Jose Ramirez are expected to show a level of decorum:  i.e.  you don't flip your bat after hitting a home run or leisurely jog around the bases. Torii Hunter has earned the right to do the bat flip because of the long, successful career.  Oh, he'd leisurely jog around the bases, probably get a highly anticipated brush-back pitch the next time up, and he'd politely tip his hat to the pitcher, out of respect.

 

I think people are making way too much out of this.

[Mike Sixel]

MLB is still very much a sport of unwritten rules.  Young players like Jose Ramirez are expected to show a level of decorum:  i.e.  you don't flip your bat after hitting a home run or leisurely jog around the bases. Torii Hunter has earned the right to do the bat flip because of the long, successful career.  Oh, he'd leisurely jog around the bases, probably get a highly anticipated brush-back pitch the next time up, and he'd politely tip his hat to the pitcher, out of respect.

 

I think people are making way too much out of this.

Easy to say, until someone gets a broken wrist by a thrown ball. The ones making too big of a deal of it are the ones that think he did something wrong, and that the other team should respond with violence. yes, someone who flipped a bat should be attacked with violence.....

[twinsnorth49]

 

Maybe everyone should lighten up, and not even think that this is showing anyone up.......explain who was hurt by this action, and how. The only hurt people are those that have decided that this should hurt them. It literally causes zero harm to flip your bat, none. Nada. Nil.

Explain what intrinsic harm was done to anyone, and I might listen.....

Nobody is saying that Mike, of course nobody was intrinsically hurt by this. It's all a matter of ego, which everyone has, you can't deny it plays a part in why people react in certain ways to certain things, especially in the world of pro sports.

 

I'm not for any retribution, I think that stuff is silly, but the reaction he got from the Twins wasn't all that unusual. His reaction to  the HR was contrived imo, not born out of joy and exuberance, it also seemed out of place considering the score and where his team sits in the standings,  kind of like a defensive end doing the happy sack dance with his team down 35 points. 

 

There's a difference between being excited and rubbing someone's nose in it, when it's the latter you can usually expect a response whether it logically makes sense or not, it's not about logic at that point.

[Craig Arko]

I believe the term used in the NFL is 'unsportsmanlike conduct.'

[Mike Sixel]

I am not annoyed with the immediate reaction, though I think that is silly. But, supposedly smart, rational people, are calling for him to be thrown at on purpose.

 

Mostly, I shake my head at the DE that does that, and am bemused at his cluelessness.

[jimmer]

 

You mean besides setting up force plays and short throws to the bases and not facing Cleveland's best hitter?

yes, besides those.  sorry, I was told earlier this year on this site that teams only walk batters because they'd rather face the next guy, not to do anything strategic like set up double plays or force outs or anything else like that :-)

[jimmer]

 

I am not annoyed with the immediate reaction, though I think that is silly. But, supposedly smart, rational people, are calling for him to be thrown at on purpose.

Mostly, I shake my head at the DE that does that, and am bemused at his cluelessness.

There are also supposed smart, rationale people also have no problem with Papelbon doing what he did to Harper :-)

[Mike Sixel]

There are also supposed smart, rationale people also have no problem with Papelbon doing what he did to Harper :-)

Narrative! Young punks! Ruining the integrity of the game!

[Steve Penz]

You have any evidence that getting mad at the other team actually leads to wins?

No. Of course I do not have evidence but I don't like the alternative of keeping your cool. They got their butts kicked in a crucial game. Get mad about giving up a gopher ball, get mad about not making more plays and getting more hits. They played a bad game and in the process they were shown up. All of that should bother them a lot. I am sure it does. Why not? Take that and go win the next one.

[twinsnorth49]

 

No. Of course I do have evidence but I don't like the alternative of keeping your cool. They got their butts kicked in a crucial game. Get mad about giving up a gopher ball, get mad about not making more plays and getting more hits. They played a bad game and in the process they were shown up. All of that should bother them a lot. I am sure it does. Why not? Take that and go win the next one.

How about being upset with each other for laying such an egg at a crucial time, rather than venting your frustration at the team who's purpose it is to beat you?

 

Good teams are motivated by becoming a better team.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Do these guys ever grow up?  Things like this kind of make me glad my kids have no interest in the game.  Be hard to explain why grown men got butt-hurt because their pitcher threw up a meatball, it got served over the wall, and now they want to project that blame on a guy who was happy he did something well at the plate.  It's hard enough to get kids to admit their own mistakes and to stop deflecting blame without having millionaires showing them it's okay.

 

Haha! It was some insult to injury. After the Twins offered up a smorgasboard as a pitching line (Pelfrey, Graham, and Duensing as the first three pitchers . . . yikes) they tried to close out with Ricky Cash Money For a Few More Years Nolasco. It had to just remind Molitor and Suzuki of too many bad decisions regarding roster management . . .

[USAFChief]

 

Maybe everyone should lighten up, and not even think that this is showing anyone up.......explain who was hurt by this action, and how. The only hurt people are those that have decided that this should hurt them. It literally causes zero harm to flip your bat, none. Nada. Nil.

Explain what intrinsic harm was done to anyone, and I might listen.....

The "unwritten rules" prevent more harm than they cause, Mike.

 

Again...the reason the Twins were upset wasn't because the player flipped his bat, had his bat flip been an honest reaction to something good, or something bad.  But it wasn't.  I guarantee everyone in both dugouts knew it, and understood the reaction and likely consequences.

 

They were upset because he taunted.  By having a set of "unwritten rules" that discourages that kind of action, that kind of action is rare,  Teams can play highly competitive 162 game schedules without much rancor.  

 

Baseball is a zero sum game.  In order to win, someone has to lose.  These are highly skilled, highly competitive people, operating at the far edge of performance, over six months, with jobs, money, reputation, respect, and self satisfaction on the line.  Of course there are going to be "norms."  That's how they're able to function without tearing each other's eyes out.  

 

The Twins have given up, what...150 HRs this year?  They had no problem with 149 of them.  That they had  a problem with this one should tell you something was amiss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Evil]

You know what would be funny? I'm sure by now the kid realizes that in the next game there is a possibility that he may get plunked. First pitch thrown to him is a heater that goes 20 feet over Suzuki's head and in to the netting. As Suzuki gets a new ball from the ump he gasps and says to the umpire, "darn it, he was wild as heck in warm ups too, I hope he's not this wild all game!"

 

I would add that I feel shouting at him from the dugout steps to show anger is a much better voice of displeasure than throwing a bean ball at him.

[Mike Sixel]

what harm comes from what he did. Still waiting for someone to tell me that.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Maybe another reason the kid was excited, besides the fact he doesn't hit a lot of HR, is because the Twins had walked the previous batter to get to him even though there was already two outs so there was no strategic reason to do so? 

 

Oh, yeah, and I forgot about this! The Cleveland announcers were really in awe of that intentional walk. Now, they did quickly condemn the bejesus out of Ramirez for his bat flip, but still . . .

[Shane Wahl]

Hopefully non-braindead responses come about and Duffey whiffs this clown every AB tonight.

[jimmer]

 

No. Of course I do not have evidence but I don't like the alternative of keeping your cool. They got their butts kicked in a crucial game. Get mad about giving up a gopher ball, get mad about not making more plays and getting more hits. They played a bad game and in the process they were shown up. All of that should bother them a lot. I am sure it does. Why not? Take that and go win the next one.

Yes, they should get mad at themselves for giving up the gopher ball.  No doubt.

[twinsnorth49]

 

what harm comes from what he did. Still waiting for someone to tell me that.

What harm came to him? A couple of guys yelled at him?

 

You're just attempting to simplify this far too much, you realize humans have emotions right? They can often be complicated and illogical.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe another reason the kid was excited, besides the fact he doesn't hit a lot of HR, is because the Twins had walked the previous batter to get to him even though there was already two outs so there was no strategic reason to do so? 

Yeah, I didn't stay up to see this part of that game, but that jumped out at me from the play by play log too.  That inning went double-strikeout-strikeout, then they intentionally walked the lefty Kipnis who was 0-for-4 to get to the switch-hitting Ramirez who was 1-for-3 with a double, already trailing by 6 runs.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Video of the play and response:

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v511644483/mincle-tempers-flare-after-ramirezs-bat-flip/?game_pk=416002

[Craig Arko]

My final comment: baseball needs the equivalent of a 15 yard taunting penalty.

My suggestion: fine the player as if he had been ejected.

[Mike Sixel]

What harm came to him? A couple of guys yelled at him?

 

You're just attempting to simplify this far too much, you realize humans have emotions right? The can often be complicated and illogical.

I said the immediate reaction isn't a big deal. Reacting by throwing at him, as some are suggesting should be done.......that's a big deal.

[amjgt]

People pose and watch their homeruns - I'm OK with that.

People flip bats - I'm OK with that

 

Most of the time people do one or the other, because the bat flip is part of the swing recoil.

 

This was not the case with our buddy last night.

 

He posed. He then carried his bat a quarter of the way down the line and flipped it. Not just any bat flip. A pretty big bat flip. A clearly purposeful big bat flip right in front of the Twins dugout. For a homerun that meant NOTHING.

 

As has been pointed out. At the end of the day, what does it really matter? I suppose nothing, other than some young player being an a-hole for no real reason. Baseball tends not to like young twerp a-holes though.

[amjgt]

 

Video of the play and response:

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v511644483/mincle-tempers-flare-after-ramirezs-bat-flip/?game_pk=416002

 

That replay doesn't show the bat flip.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not defending what he did or did not do, btw.......I'm arguing that throwing at him is wrong.

[jimmer]

Most unwritten rules gives players the excuse to do stupid things that fans and people in the game will excuse. They absolutely cause more harm than good.

 

Papelbon was pissed at Harper because he didn't defend him when Papelbon did a stupid thing. Papelbon waits for Harper to break a stupid unwritten rule and then goes off on him. And players and some fans excuse it.

 

Unwritten rules give pitchers reason to throw 90+ MPH balls at pretty much defenseless batters. They give players reasons to fight each other.  But mostly what they do is allow a player to deflect the blame off of who it should be on by saying look at how he showed me up when I served up a meatball HR to a guy I intentionally walked a guy to get to.

 

Think about this.  Pretty much all of the violence in the game is because some unwritten rule was broken.  Many unwritten rules say 'don't make me feel bad when I fail at my job and the opponent made me pay for it' (like when a pitcher serves up a meatball and it gets crushed) because I will look for any reason to make it about your actions instead of about me throwing up a meatball.

[amjgt]

I don't think any one here is suggesting we should throw at him.

 

Some are guessing that they WILL throw at him though.