Thinking WAY, WAY, WAY (another WAY), WAY outside the Box

[Loosey]

For months now talks of a trades on TD has been for the most part surrounding getting a catcher and trading Trevor Plouffe.  But how possible, (as in has it been done ever) would it be to try something outrageous this offseason and in Spring Training next year of actually giving Trevor reps at Catcher?  Before you all jump down my throat on this one, this is purely hypothetical.  Just conversation . . . . mostly

 

In order to get a catcher of the quality most of us want (.675-.700ish OPS), the Twins would have to give up something of value (Trevor Plouffe) who is about .725 career OPS guy + maybe another piece.   Why not take that .725 OPS and 15+ HRs in Plouffe and shift it over Catcher?

 

Is there any precedence for this extreme of a position shift this late in someone's career?  Rick Ankiel is the only one I can think of from when he moved from Pitcher to Outfielder and was mildly successful for a few years.

 

Trevor is an athletic guy with nice reflexes as a third baseman and has a solid arm.  Do you guys think something like this could ever happen in this scenario or even another team trying it to fill holes with pieces they have already? 

[nicksaviking]

Considering that the Twins don't trust Pinto enough to catch and he's likey been doing it for over a decade, I'd guess it might be a tad more challenging for Plouffe to become sufficient at it. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Catcher is so much more than getting reps. It requires extensive knowledge of hitters, pitchers, pitch-calling, framing, etc.

 

It's not something a player just "picks up" in an offseason. There's a reason why catchers, like goalies in the NHL, often take the longest to reach the highest level of the sport; it's a really hard job.

 

That's one of the things that made Joe Mauer such a special player and why Josmil Pinto is still flailing away in the minors.

[HitInAPinch]

No way, no how.....

[TheLeviathan]

You left reality a few WAYs back.

[stringer bell]

Plouffe does have the necessary foot speed to play catcher.

[jimbo92107]

Trevor Plouffe is a really good athlete, so there's not much I would put past him. Becoming a starting-level catcher is one of the few things I don't think he could do, not at this stage of his career. As Brock said, it's almost like asking a hockey defenseman to become a goalie. Catcher is that specialized.

 

As for using Plouffe in a new position, you'd have better luck with him as a pitcher, which he did in high school.

 

A better short term move would be to bring up Stewart Turner in September. Even though Turner is hitting just .269 in AA, he's still reportedly a real stud defensive catcher, and calls a good game. Twins could then decide next spring whether to keep Turner around or send him to AAA to keep working on his hitting. Then I'd promote all the catcher prospects a level for the remainder of the season, especially Garver and Navaretto.

[BK432]

Have to agree this seems far-fetched. But hey, I love that you asked the question. Better than reading the same old hypothetical trade threads, Mauer sucks threads, and bullpen answers threads.

 

So, thank you. You got me to read it!

[Otto von Ballpark]

Out of curiosity, are there any catcher conversion examples?  Off the top of my head, Buster Posey did it as a college sophomore.  I can't recall anyone who did it as a pro -- any ideas?

[Platoon]

[quote name="jimbo92107" post="386009" timestamp="1439398861

 

A better short term move would be to bring up Stewart Turner in September. Even though Turner is hitting just .269 in AA, he's still reportedly a real stud defensive catcher, and calls a good game. Twins could then decide next spring whether to keep Turner around or send him to AAA to keep working on his hitting. Then I'd promote all the catcher prospects a level for the remainder of the season, especially Garver and Navaretto.

A question I have asked numerous times. We currently have a catcher who can't hit, or catch. Why don't we at least get a catcher who can catch?

[Loosey]

 

Have to agree this seems far-fetched. But hey, I love that you asked the question. Better than reading the same old hypothetical trade threads, Mauer sucks threads, and bullpen answers threads.

 

So, thank you. You got me to read it!

I know it is more than far fetched, but I thought why not ask.  I also was interested if there has been any examples of a MLB player making a transition from another position to catcher.  Obviously I know this isn't going to happen, but if it did doesn't it seem like it would solve so many problems!

[twinsnorth49]

If Plouffe could somehow turn into Jonathan Lucroy by osmosis I'm all for it. Failing that, there's no chance in hell.

[mbents]

 

A question I have asked numerous times. We currently have a catcher who can't hit, or catch. Why don't we at least get a catcher who can catch?

 

I've wondered lately what the Mariners would want for Zunino. He's having an atrocious year at the plate, but he actually has a positive bWAR because of his defense.

[Halsey Hall]

Plouffe doesn't like fielding balls right at him.  He might be perfect olaying the pitchers on our team with their wildness. 

[Don Julio]

Out of curiosity, are there any catcher conversion examples?  Off the top of my head, Buster Posey did it as a college sophomore.  I can't recall anyone who did it as a pro -- any ideas?[/quote Dave Engle and Brian Harper with the Twins, also Gary Carter, Elston Howard, Roger Bresnahan and Bobby Bragan. It can be done, although I would not advocate moving Plouffe to catcher.

[nicksaviking]

If Plouffe could somehow turn into Jonathan Lucroy by osmosis I'm all for it. Failing that, there's no chance in hell.

If we're going that route though, I'd still prefer he turn into Clayton Kershaw.

[DocBauer]

Dave Engle was the name I was going to bring up. I never did hear what "knack" the Twins felt he had to make the move, but it worked with limited success.

 

Were Plouffe younger, a solid athlete that he appears to be with a strong arm, it might have been a possibility. But not now.

 

Not sure what the "it" factor or criteria needs to be recognized for a scout or an organization to say; "this guy can catch", but I bet Cuddyer is one that could have pulled it off. Is there anyone in the organization now that might have "it"?  Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[Otto von Ballpark]

About Engle:

 

The decision was made the next season to give Engle a shot at catcher, a position he had played in high school and two years in college at Southern California.

http://www.startribune.com/catcher-engle-s-stardom-with-twins-was-short-lived/264125541/

 

So it was more of a return to the position rather than a conversion.  Still unusual, but not nearly as unusual as moving Plouffe would be.

[Dantes929]

I can think of several conversions of catcher to other positions but not other positions to catcher and there is a reason for it.   Third base is so much easier and it took Plouffe a really long time to become adequate there.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Dave Engle and Brian Harper with the Twins, also Gary Carter, Elston Howard, Roger Bresnahan and Bobby Bragan. It can be done, although I would not advocate moving Plouffe to catcher.

Thanks for the names, I got to do some fun research.

 

See my post above about Engle, who played catcher in high school and college.

 

Harper was exclusively a catcher for his first 4 pro seasons.  He never had a pro season where he didn't play catcher at some level, although the Twins definitely moved him back to full-time.

 

Carter was converted to catcher immediately upon being drafted at age 18.

 

According to this bio, Elston Howard debuted as a catcher in the Negro Leagues:

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/e6884b08

 

Bresnahan started his pro career "playing mostly catcher" too:

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/90202b76

 

Bragan is the only one of this group who actually converted to the position late (age 24), but he was only a backup or 3rd stringer for about 3 seasons, and even that was likely influenced by the shorthanded rosters of World War II (he first caught on the 1942 Phillies, who at 42-109 were particularly bereft of talent):

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/83f33669

[Andrew]

If we're going that route though, I'd still prefer he turn into Clayton Kershaw.

so you think he'll start throwing lefty too. This is going to be a rough offseason for our friend Mr. Plouffe

[glunn]

I have enjoyed the out of the box discussion.  It may not be feasible, but it is interesting.

[sane]

Russell Martin, Jorge Posada (a former second baseman), Geovany Soto (third base), Michael Barrett (third base) and Paul Lo Duca (first base/third base).  Buster Posey was a shortstop as a freshman at Florida State before being converted.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Russell Martin, Jorge Posada (a former second baseman), Geovany Soto (third base), Michael Barrett (third base) and Paul Lo Duca (first base/third base).  Buster Posey was a shortstop as a freshman at Florida State before being converted.

Thanks for more names!  I am having fun learning these histories.

 

Martin was converted to catcher in his first pro offseason, age 19-20.

 

Posada played some catcher his first pro season, age 19.

 

Soto played predominantly catcher in his first pro season, age 18.

 

Barrett was converted his first pro offseason, age 18-19.

 

Lo Duca played exclusively at catcher his first pro season.

 

Posey's been mentioned before, age 19 for his conversion in college.

 

Long story short: a Plouffe to catcher conversion at age 29 would be pretty much unprecedented, in this or basically any era.

[Teflon]

If our pitchers just were a touch better at pitching to contact, would we even need a catcher?