Waving the white flag on this roster

[jun]

 

Shane's radical fix to this roster.

 

1. Promote Oswaldo Arcia

2. Promote J.O. Berrios

2. Promote Taylor Rogers

3. Promote Alex Meyer

4. Promote Tyler Duffey

5. Trade for A.J. Pierzynski (demote Eric Fryer, and offer up two PTBNL)

 

The Arcia moves makes the offense playoff ready after Buxton comes back. Oswaldo Arcia is a fantastic bat to have on the bench in the playoffs. Players for playoffs:

 

Brian Dozier, Torii Hunter, Joe Mauer, Miguel Sano, Trevor Plouffe, Eddie Rosario, Aaron Hicks, Kurt Suzuki/A.J. Pierzynski, Eduardo Escobar, and Oswaldo Arcia, Pierzynski/Suzuki, Danny Santana, Eduardo Nunez, and X player (14 for playoffs--Kepler, Vargas, Pinto (?), Polanco, Robinson, etc. are options)

 

Pitchers for playoffs:

 

Phil Hughes

Kyle Gibson

Tommy Milone

Mike Pelfrey

 

Tyler Duffey

Ryan O'Rourke

Alex Meyer

Taylor Rogers

J.O. Berrios

Trevor May

Glen Perkins

 

Not sure how to order that playoff bullpen, but the point is that all of them can strike batters out. I don't care about Duensing, Boyer, Fien, Tonkin (for now, though he is the backup option if one of the above falters), and even Pressly. Revamp the whole thing in August and let it fly. The above are pitchers who need MLB experience anyway.

If Pressly is healthy, he should be there. Meyer has been struggling in AAA. Achter should be a better choice. Graham deserves to be there as well.

Oh, please, NO Danny Santana! Kepler, Vargas, Polanco and even Robinson are all better options.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Again, it's not like the Twins aren't watching these potential in house guys perform in AAA.

 

so, basically, an appeal to authority. We should not question their judgment. That's your argument here.....

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would say a trade was not possible and none of the internal guys they tried did enough.

 

And they never really tried Stauffer, Duensing didn't pitch leverage innings for a long stretch (and finally earned a chance recently), and Boyer hasn't really pitched a leverage inning in a while.

 

Uh, he brought all those guys in, or retained them, at the beginning of the year. No one else did that. If everyone knew this might/would be a problem.......how is it a free pass that it is now a problem?

[drjim]

 

so, basically, an appeal to authority. We should not question their judgment. That's your argument here.....

 

People can question all they want - and people can disagree.

 

Beyond the Twins not calling them up, I have never found the other guys in AAA that have been called for all that appealing.

[USAFChief]

And they never really tried Stauffer, Duensing didn't pitch leverage innings for a long stretch (and finally earned a chance recently), and Boyer hasn't really pitched a leverage inning in a while.

Those seem more like indictments of TR than any kind of defense.

[big dog]

 

The reliever market hasn't exactly moved, so not easy for the Twins to add upgrades yet.

Papelbon traded from Phillies to Nationals

Clippard traded from A's to Mets

Hawkins traded from Rockies to Mets as part of Tulo deal

Finnegan traded from Royals as part of Cueto deal

Cishek traded from Marlins to Cardinals

along with a bunch of mid- to high-level minor league relievers included in various deals

 

How much longer should we wait?

 

[drjim]

 

Uh, he brought all those guys in, or retained them, at the beginning of the year. No one else did that. If everyone knew this might/would be a problem.......how is it a free pass that it is now a problem?

 

Who said anything about a free pass? Making stuff up isn't all that beneficial.

 

Ryan did a poor job of putting together a bullpen. The outside guy he brought in was a disaster. But if you told him that Pressly, Tonkin, Burdi, Jones, Chargois, Reed would be contributing nothing to the pen right now, he would probably have done an extra move or two in the offseason.

[drjim]

 

Papelbon traded from Phillies to Nationals

Clippard traded from A's to Mets

Hawkins traded from Rockies to Mets as part of Tulo deal

Finnegan traded from Royals as part of Cueto deal

Cishek traded from Marlins to Cardinals

along with a bunch of mid- to high-level minor league relievers included in various deals

 

How much longer should we wait?

 

I was thinking Clippard and Cishek. I don't think Papelbon was an option, and wasn't counting minor leaguers (Finnegan is going to start).

 

Hawkins would be laughed at on this board.

[drjim]

 

Those seem more like indictments of TR than any kind of defense.

 

I'm not really defending Ryan and his construction of his bullpen. I hope it isn't that binary.

 

Saying the options people are calling for aren't better doesn't mean I fully support this trainwreck of a bullpen.

 

I think they should trade for two arms (if possible), DFA Boyer, put May back in the rotation and probably give Tonkin one more shot.

 

I don't think calling up Duffey or Achter does anything.

[DaveW]

 

I was thinking Clippard and Cishek. I don't think Papelbon was an option, and wasn't counting minor leaguers (Finnegan is going to start).

 

Hawkins would be laughed at on this board.

Actually many people had suggested Hawkins, so that isn't accurate.

 

Papelbon certainly was an option, the Twins could have easily afforded him and wouldn't have had to give up much to get him.

Benoit, K-Rod and more are just sitting there for the taking.

[drjim]

 

Actually many people had suggested Hawkins, so that isn't accurate.

 

Papelbon certainly was an option, the Twins could have easily afforded him and wouldn't have had to give up much to get him.

Benoit, K-Rod and more are just sitting there for the taking.

 

I would have taken Hawkins too.

 

Papelbon wasn't going to a team unless he closed. It wasn't about cost.

[twinsnorth49]

 

There have been two relievers traded, right?

Oh c'mon, let's not be obtuse about this, their heads have been buried in the sand about this for months, why wait until the 11th hour to act on something that should have been painfully obvious to them long ago?

[Vanimal46]

I suppose you could make the argument that our internal options aren't better than what we current have on staff, since TR has made minimal effort to rotate players in and out.

 

All I ask is to do something different. It's insane to continue to employ 3 RP who have struggled for months.

 

Once again, if this is the plan, to continue the status quo, wave the white flag - it's over. And it's a damn shame to waste a competitive season on guys who have no future on this team after 2015.

[Target Field of Dreams]

Unless you want to inflict serious personal pain, do not under any circumstance look at what Sean Gilmartin has done this year....the guy we left unprotected when we retained Duensing and signed Stauffer....absolutely unforgivable

[Squirrel]

 

The reliever market hasn't exactly moved, so not easy for the Twins to add upgrades yet.

Um, but there have been internal options they could have been trying all this time to know what they potentially would need at the deadline. We have no idea, truly, what we have internally because they haven't been tried. And if the reason they haven't been tried is because they wouldn't be satisfactory, they they should have already gotten something in trade already, imo. 

[tobi0040]

 

I was thinking Clippard and Cishek. I don't think Papelbon was an option, and wasn't counting minor leaguers (Finnegan is going to start).

 

Hawkins would be laughed at on this board.

 

Benoit is still out there.  $8M option for next year.  The guy is really good. The market price tells me he could be had for a prospect in the 10+ range.  $8M next year won't break the bank. 

 

You mix and match Perkins and Benoit in the 8th and 9th and rid yourself of the silly closer title.  Then hopefully that makes the others better. On non-Pelfrey starts the guy goes 6.  You can play righty-righty lefty-lefty through the 7th.   Rid yourself of Duensing and Boyer and call up someone from Rochester. 

 

Achter or Tonkin have to be better than Duensing/Boyer over a long period of time.  That helps the pen a great deal. 

 

The issue is this should have happened 30 games ago, and May should have had Pelfrey's last 6 starts or so.   In those 6 starts,  he has given up 48 hits, 12 BB's, 22 ER, 25 R, in 31 innings. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

People can question all they want - and people can disagree.

 

Beyond the Twins not calling them up, I have never found the other guys in AAA that have been called for all that appealing.

They don't have to blow you away, they could be an unknown. Our current options are known garbage we keep trudging out. Just being not-them IS good enough.

[DaveW]

 

Unless you want to inflict serious personal pain, do not under any circumstance look at what Sean Gilmartin has done this year....the guy we left unprotected when we retained Duensing and signed Stauffer....absolutely unforgivable

Meh, I can't fault them for letting Gilmartin go. He wasn't going to be around regardless here.

[DaveW]

 

 

I would have taken Hawkins too.

 

Papelbon wasn't going to a team unless he closed. It wasn't about cost.

Let him close then! Perkins can go be the dominating 8th inning guy.

[DaveW]

 

 

Benoit is still out there.  $8M option for next year.  The guy is really good. The market price tells me he could be had for a prospect in the 10+ range.  $8M next year won't break the bank. 

 

I'd say a prospect  in the 18-25 range most likely with the Twins farm system.

[jokin]

 

Just saying that terry ryan HAS tried other options. Maybe Oliveros should have been given a shot, but I don't think many GMs would take promising starters and turn them into bullpen guys. Decent starters are so hard to find whereas relievers are dime a dozen.
While Boyer and Fien should probably be gone by now, I'm not sure we have anyone better than them in our current system and I don't want to give up anything of value to get a reliever. While it's frustrating to watch our bullpen implode, I'm not in favor of bringing up shiny new toys if they won't be an upgrade over what we already have

 

But  we don't know that, do we?  And decent AAA SPs are also almost a dime a dozen.  

 

Regrding taking promising starters and throwing them into the MLB pen, this has been tried, and worked repeatedly, by the Cardinals, and at one time in the past, by the Twins.

[adorduan]

 

Well unfortunately Pelfrey just wants to be a starter. I think May should stay in the bullpen because he could strike people out. Achter, Rogers and Duffey should all be brought up to take Fien, Boyer and Duensing's place.

Who gives a crap what Pelfrey wants? Put May back in the rotation and move him to the pen.  He has turned into the pumpkin a lot of people predicted he would.  If he gets pissy about it, DFA him.  He has no trade value.

[drjim]

 

Oh c'mon, let's not be obtuse about this, their heads have been buried in the sand about this for months, why wait until the 11th hour to act on something that should have been painfully obvious to them long ago?

 

But let's also be realistic. Relievers don't move until near the deadline unless you want to make a terrible trade.

 

They can't trade for something that isn't there.

[drjim]

 

Benoit is still out there.  $8M option for next year.  The guy is really good. The market price tells me he could be had for a prospect in the 10+ range.  $8M next year won't break the bank. 

 

You mix and match Perkins and Benoit in the 8th and 9th and rid yourself of the silly closer title.  Then hopefully that makes the others better. On non-Pelfrey starts the guy goes 6.  You can play righty-righty lefty-lefty through the 7th.   Rid yourself of Duensing and Boyer and call up someone from Rochester. 

 

Achter or Tonkin have to be better than Duensing/Boyer over a long period of time.  That helps the pen a great deal. 

 

The issue is this should have happened 30 games ago, and May should have had Pelfrey's last 6 starts or so.   In those 6 starts,  he has given up 48 hits, 12 BB's, 22 ER, 25 R, in 31 innings. 

 

I would strongly endorse a Benoit move.

[Squirrel]

I was thinking of more to say, then got a headache thinking of more to say.

[jokin]

 

Unless you want to inflict serious personal pain, do not under any circumstance look at what Sean Gilmartin has done this year....the guy we left unprotected when we retained Duensing and signed Stauffer....absolutely unforgivable

 

Meh, I can't fault them for letting Gilmartin go. He wasn't going to be around regardless here.

 

 

It has been thoroughly documented on TD that the Twins were perturbed on Rule 5 draft day in losing Gilmartin.  They made a calculated gamble and lost.  Given how things have worked out, he would have looked pretty good in the Twins pen this year.  The Mets are chock full of good, young arms, yet they found a spot in the pen for the MLB-untested Gilmartin.  

 

Here are the K% numbers for Twins RPs plus Gilmartin (LHP in bold):

 

O'Rourke 31.7%

Perkins  22.7

Gilmartin 20.5

Graham 19.4     

Duensing 13.6

May 13.5

Fien 13.0

Thompson  12.4

Boyer 10.9

[Mike Sixel]

Why they exposed Gilmartin, only to keep guys on the 40 man they won't call up........is baffling, imo.

[jimbo92107]

 

Ryan has forced himself into giving up assets to acquire bullpen help because he didn't act on the problem sooner.

 

To me, that might be the most frustrating part of this entire situation. If the Twins deal a good prospect to pick up a reliever rental, I'm going to lose my ****.

 

Only go outside the organization and give up prospects after you've exhausted other options.

You're assuming TR is willing to spend farm talent on a rental to make the playoffs. I'm not sure that's true. Could be that TR and management intends to stand pat, keep the farm, and wait for guys to develop, even at the cost of not having much of a chance at the playoffs this season.

 

If the Twins stick with the "small market" model of team development, then guarding their farm system is what we should expect, rather than Yankees-style acquisitions of high-priced free agents. It's a longer orbit that comes around only about once every ten years, and the closest approach is still two or three years from now, when we see the arrival of guys like Mitch Garver, Kohl Stewart, Tyler Jay and other prospects now in Ft. Myers and Cedar Rapids. By then we'll know if Alex Wimmers was able to come back fully from TJ surgery, if Kennys Vargas found his power swing again, etc.

 

I have to admit, the unending soap opera of internal player transactions and development is at least as entertaining as watching Twins games on TV. One of the reasons I prefer the Twins hang onto their own prospects is because I like seeing the Twins' own draft picks work through the development process, rather than passing them around between teams like a bunch of poker chips. I want to see Max Kepler gradually develop into a great all-around ballplayer. I want to see Kohl Stewart learn to hit the corners with every pitch. I want to see Kennys Vargas finally figure things out. I want to see Wimmers get back to the form that got him drafted in the first round. I want to see AB Walker get his K rate down to a respectable (gulp) 30 percent..!

 

Something usually goes wrong, I know. But every now and then, something really goes right. All of it is interesting. Farming is fun.

[nicksaviking]

 

I would strongly endorse a Benoit move.

 

I wouldn't want the last three years of that Shields contract, but I would be very curious what kind demands San Diego would be willing to met to get out from that AND the $8M to Benoit next year. 

[DaveW]

 

I wouldn't want the last three years of that Shields contract, but I would be very curious what kind demands San Diego would be willing to met to get out from that AND the $8M to Benoit next year. 

I can't see them trading Shields, all indications are that the Padres wanna take a run again next year. Interesting that Upton hasn't been moved though (not that I want him on the Twins anyways unless the price is super low)

 

I would however take Shields in the heartbeat.