Trade Target Joaquin Benoit

[DaveW]

Per MLBTrade Rumors, sounds like that Twins could be interested in Benoit from the Padres. Though I would prefer an elite shutdown guy like papelbon or clippard I would be all for this move. He is owed about 4 million the rest of this season, so that is not an issue, there is a 8 mil team option for 2016 with a 1.5 mill buy out.

Guy has been very consistent/solid each year since 2010. Unlike most of our other current options he also can strike guys out as well (8.3 k/9 this year,  9.7 k/9 the last 3 years). Probably wouldn't cost a whole lot either, and instantly upgrades the bullpen and gives us a pretty damn reliable guy we can put out in the 8th inning.

[John Kelsey]

I think Benoit is just as good as Clippard and Papelbon personally, just a little long in the tooth. I'd be pretty thrilled if we got him. 

[DaveW]

 

I think Benoit is just as good as Clippard and Papelbon personally, just a little long in the tooth. I'd be pretty thrilled if we got him. 

Can't argue too much with that, I think Clippard and Papelbon are a tick above him, but maybe I am just swayed because they are both closers. Which brings up another point, since Benoit isn't a current "proven closer", that likely means his price tag is going to be less than "proven closers" like Clippard, Papelbon and Matt Capps

 

Plus, you don't have to worry about the "proven closer" being upset that he is now an 8th inning guy instead of a "proven closer" with his new team.

[James]

I like the idea.  The team option is nice too.  Having a nice reliable pitcher for the 8th is necessary if the Twins actual expect to compete in the post season, rather than just get there.  

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think this would be a good get.

[Buford_T_Justice]

I wonder what we would have to give up. Multiple prospects? Would they be interested in Hicks? No one hits in Petco anyway.

[nicksaviking]

If the price is right, sure.  He's still getting results but his strikeout numbers are tumbling and his walks are rising.  He's got some hefty red flags not to mention what happend to the strikeout rates of the other two Padres relievers the Twins got this past offseason.

 

I'll take him, but not for a prospect I still care about, it would mostly have to be a salary dump.

[Cap'n Piranha]

I pass.  His ERA is more than a run-and-a-half below his FIP and xFIP, and his success is being buoyed by a completely unsustainable .141 BABIP (his previous career best was .192, and that's when he struck out more than 11/9, not barely 8/9).

 

For comparison's sake, his FIP/xFIP is only slightly lower than Boyer's, which leads me to believe that if his name was John Bennett, there wouldn't be as much interest.

[Otto von Ballpark]

FWIW, Benoit's K rate is down this year, and his BB rate is up -- worst marks in both categories since his 2009 surgery.  And he's about to turn 38 years old, so it may not be just random fluctuation.

 

Still looks like an upgrade for us, and a better one than LaTroy Hawkins, and could be very get-able with that salary.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I pass.  His ERA is more than a run-and-a-half below his FIP and xFIP, and his success is being buoyed by a completely unsustainable .141 BABIP (his previous career best was .192, and that's when he struck out more than 11/9, not barely 8/9).

 

For comparison's sake, his FIP/xFIP is only slightly lower than Boyer's, which leads me to believe that if his name was John Bennett, there wouldn't be as much interest.

Benoit's no sure thing at this age, but he at least has the potential to get back to 10 K/9.  Do you have a better suggestion, that could be acquired without sacrificing much talent in return?

[Shane Wahl]

Padres seem to want MLB-players or close to MLB-players.

 

I have no idea, but I would certainly ship Escobar and Travis Harrison if that is the kind of price they want.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Benoit's no sure thing at this age, but he at least has the potential to get back to 10 K/9.  Do you have a better suggestion, that could be acquired without sacrificing much talent in return?

 

Sure.

 

AJ Achter, Lester Oliveros, and/or Michael Tonkin.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sure.

 

AJ Achter, Lester Oliveros, and/or Michael Tonkin.

I certainly would have tried those guys out by now.  But now that we're waited until July, we've reduced our margin for error.  Benoit may not be available after July 31st.  If it's just cash and a fungible prospect/player, I'd do it.

[HitInAPinch]

"We’ve heard suggestions that the Twins could be looking at bullpen upgrades, and Rosenthal confirms that is Minnesota’s focus."

 

Twins also talked to Brewers about Neil Cotts, who is 35.

[Shane Wahl]

Anyone care to track down recent setup men trades for an idea of the return desired?
 

Here is a list of 1x-2x prospects who are close-ish to the big leagues the Twins could/should be willing to trade if they are serious:

 

Tyler Duffey

Travis Harrison

Zach Jones

Jake Reed

Levi Michael

 

And here is a list of other major and minor league players they could find a way to package together:

 

Eduardo Escobar

Danny Santana

Danny Ortiz

Lester Oliveros

A.J. Achter

Reynaldo Rodriguez

James Beresford

 

Beyond these players, I don't know how much I would give up for an oldster reliever.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Padres seem to want MLB-players or close to MLB-players.

Do you have a source on that?  I haven't seen that reported anywhere, at least not in regards to Benoit -- they probably can't be too choosey about their return for him.

 

For better players, like Kimbrel etc., they probably want good young MLB players or near MLB good prospects, sure.  But the market for Benoit would probably dictate taking a younger lower-level prospect as the best return value -- it doesn't make much sense for them to insist on a bench or AAA guy.

[Shane Wahl]

 

 

I certainly would have tried those guys out by now.  But now that we're waited until July, we've reduced our margin for error.  Benoit may not be available after July 31st.  If it's just cash and a fungible prospect/player, I'd do it.

 

That's the issue . . . now that this has been screwed up, the fix has to come quickly instead of a trial run for these guys. All three (Achter, Oliveros, and Tonkin) have had weird issues when given their, albeit limited, time in the majors.

[Shane Wahl]

 

 

Do you have a source on that?  I haven't seen that reported anywhere, at least not in regards to Benoit -- they probably can't be too choosey about their return for him.

 

For better players, like Kimbrel etc., they probably want good young MLB players or near MLB good prospects, sure.  But the market for Benoit would probably dictate taking a younger lower-level prospect as the best return value -- it doesn't make much sense for them to insist on a bench or AAA guy.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/padres-preparing-for-active-creative-deadline.html

 

Not limited to such players, certainly, but they don't want to rebuild either. Likely AA or above.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I certainly would have tried those guys out by now.  But now that we're waited until July, we've reduced our margin for error.  Benoit may not be available after July 31st.  If it's just cash and a fungible prospect/player, I'd do it.

 

And because we have less room for error, that's why I don't want Benoit, but rather one of our AAA guys, because I believe they will actually be better than Benoit.

 

Oliveros--strip out his 4 spot starts, and he's striking out more than 12/9, while walking 4.5/9 (Benoit is 8.25/9 and 3.25/9).  Oliveros has a BABIP of .383, and still has a lower FIP, by almost a full run, than Benoit with his .141 BABIP.

 

Achter--9k/9 and 2.3bb/9, with a 3.69 FIP

 

Tonkin--he would be my last choice, but he could potentially benefit from some certainty.  In AAA, he's at almost 13k/9, with only 1.3bb/9.  He's got a .290 BABIP, but his FIP is 1.36.

 

I'd rather see what any/all of those 3 can do, rather than give up a player, and have to shell out 5M+.

[Mike Sixel]

Just. Say. No. Try the internal guys first.

[SwainZag]

 

And because we have less room for error, that's why I don't want Benoit, but rather one of our AAA guys, because I believe they will actually be better than Benoit.

 

Oliveros--strip out his 4 spot starts, and he's striking out more than 12/9, while walking 4.5/9 (Benoit is 8.25/9 and 3.25/9).  Oliveros has a BABIP of .383, and still has a lower FIP, by almost a full run, than Benoit with his .141 BABIP.

 

Achter--9k/9 and 2.3bb/9, with a 3.69 FIP

 

Tonkin--he would be my last choice, but he could potentially benefit from some certainty.  In AAA, he's at almost 13k/9, with only 1.3bb/9.  He's got a .290 BABIP, but his FIP is 1.36.

 

I'd rather see what any/all of those 3 can do, rather than give up a player, and have to shell out 5M+.

 

Remember you are comparing AAA numbers with MLB numbers.  But I would rather see Oliveros as well before dealing for someone.

[Shane Wahl]

The Twins are often seemingly unclear as to why they keep players around who they clearly don't like as MLBers. Pinto, Tonkin, Oliveros, and Achter are clear examples.

[laloesch]

 

The Twins are often seemingly unclear as to why they keep players around who they clearly don't like as MLBers. Pinto, Tonkin, Oliveros, and Achter are clear examples.

 

I don't understand it either.  Why not give Oliveros, Achter, Tonkin and Pinto REAL extended auditions?  

[DaveW]

You can trade for Benoit and still bring up Acter, Oliveros etc. it's not like there is only one spot avail in the pen.

 

I don't see why so many are uninterested, he would easily be the 2nd best RP the twins have had in the last few seasonsx

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

You can trade for Benoit and still bring up Acter, Oliveros etc. it's not like there is only one spot avail in the pen.

I don't see why so many are uninterested, he would easily be the 2nd best RP the twins have had in the last few seasonsx

 

Yes in theory, you can trade for Benoit and bring up a AAA'er.  But let's be honest, that won't happen.  If we acquire a veteran RP, I guarantee that none of the AAA guys will be up until September (barring injury).

 

As for why so many are uninterested, Benoit's stats seem to strongly suggest he's on the edge of the cliff, and could fall over at any time.

[LaBombo]

Well, if it's mostly just money, then go for it.

 

After all, it's not my money, and Lord knows we TD'ers have made enough unsuccessful attempts at untying the Gordian knot of unspent payroll carryover to justify surrender with honor to the idea that surplus money is lost to the same black hole as 'the missing sock'.

 

That being said, the only reason I'm not holding my breath in protest at the notion of a team with the 8th best run differential in the AL trading for a setup man is that it's not Wild Bill Smith doing the trading (PTL!)

 

But if they're going to trade a prospect of modest value for 25 innings of middle relief despite having one of the best bullpens in all of the minors at Rochester, then that prospect better not just be the regular kind of fungible, he'd better be the 'nearly empty butane lighter' kind of fungible.

 

 

PS Was going to say that he'd "better put the fun in 'fungible' ", but it wouldn't really make any sense...

 

 

 

 

[DaveTMpls]

There are a lot of things about Ryan's work as GM that I like, but his track record at assessing/acquiring veteran pitchers is not one of them.  Have the Twins acquired ANY veteran NL pitcher in the past decade that actually worked out?

[DaveTMpls]

I'd have to say that Blaine Boyer has worked out pretty well for us.  The Twins bullpen in May and June was one of the bright spots.

[LaBombo]

 

There are a lot of things about Ryan's work as GM that I like, but his track record at assessing/acquiring veteran pitchers is not one of them.  Have the Twins acquired ANY veteran NL pitcher in the past decade that actually worked out?

 

Correia, if you go by the Twins' version of "worked out".  Pelfrey, if they immediately put him on the shelfrey before he can undo his 2015 contribution.

 

Unless you're a big Rick Reed fan, though, you'd have to go back to John Smiley or Steve Bedrosian, wouldn't you?

[SwainZag]

 

Correia, if you go by the Twins' version of "worked out".  Pelfrey, if they immediately put him on the shelfrey before he can undo his 2015 contribution.

 

Unless you're a big Rick Reed fan, though, you'd have to go back to John Smiley or Steve Bedrosian, wouldn't you?

 

Capps wasn't awful in a Twins uni.  Rick Reed was a solid addition for a year or two.  We all know RIcky Nolasco has been a bust, but there really aren't a ton of examples of TR acquiring NL talent.  Benoit isn't really an NL pitcher either.  Outside of the 1.5 years in San Diego he threw 10+ years in the AL between Texas, Detroit and Tampa.   A relief pitcher is a relief pitcher, regardless of the league anyway.