Seriously, what do we do with Plouffe once Sano gets called up?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Why would that doom him FOREVER? He could DH this year, and practice in the field (at 3B, 1B, and RF), play once a week or so out there. If they are in contention, and they continue to DH Nunez.......that would be criminal.

Yeah, pretty much this. If Sano wasn't so frightening with the bat, I'd feel more strongly about letting him stay down to work on defense but he's so good with the stick that the moment you feel he's ready offensively, you jam him into the lineup wherever he'll fit.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Makes no sense to put him in the outfield or 1B with his defense at 3B.  I think they deal him or extend him, then think about their options with Sano.  The problem is that Sano is not going to be a better 3B than Plouffe for awhile, if ever.  Is Sano a lifetime DH? - maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zenser]

 

no chance. I don't know if a number 1 overall prospect has ever been traded.*

 

*I'm sure someone will correct me

 

Adrian Gonzalez was traded.

[DuluthFan]

 

I definitely would not DH him.  The way guys get better in the field is if you run them out there and they work at it (see Plouffe, Trevor).  To DH him at this critical juncture of his career is to doom him to being a career DH and there is no way they want that.

 

He can and will get plenty of playing time at 3B if he is left at AA this year and AAA next year. At that point you evaluate whether he has what it takes to play 3B at the major league level. He is not going to be DH'd until he proves he cannot play a position.

 

In the meantime you still have Plouffe for two more years of arbitration. During his final year of arbitration is when a decision needs to be made. Sano would then need to show he can play the position or the Twins can extend Plouffe. While I understand the desire to rush Sano to the majors, he still needs to prove he can play a position first. Then he needs to continue to hit at both AA and AAA. Finally he has to unseat an established player.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sounds good in theory, except that a contender won't want to trade one quality starter for another. The point is to get better, not rearrange deck chairs. And Plouffe's value to a non-contender is questionable since he only has 2 years left of team control and will get more expensive in arbitration (or in the process of avoiding it).

 

I haven't heard of a single trade idea involving Plouffe that made sense... I'm open to suggestions. 

 

Are you though?  Because the way these things normally play out I could throw out the most brilliant suggestion ever and more often than not it gets dismissed because of perceptions on how realistic it is.  We don't know what is out there and what is available, so as long as we're going to play the game of speculation fairly, I'm game.  Hopefully you are too.

 

Trades like this happen, though typically in the offseason.  What we're talking about is a surplus for a surplus deal.  So we need to find a team with garbage at third but a near ready or ready player that is likely either a C, SS, or SP.

 

Here's a sample:  The Astros have a bad 3B.  They also have a kid (who they just called up) by the name of Lance McCullers.  Is that too much for Plouffe?  Maybe, but I'm also not sure I want to give up Plouffe for much less than that and the value seems pretty good to me.  

 

Maybe Susac and more from SFG.  Maybe Syndergaard or Palewki from NYM.  There may be options out there that are strength for strength and shouldn't be so easily dismissed as possibilities.  They allow us to call up a good player at 3B and fill another hole at the same time rather than trying to play someone out of position.  It can and should be explored.

[Target Field of Dreams]

Another reason you don't trade Plouffe right now....unless the return is incredible....is the fact that Santana hasn't proven to be that great at short. If the Twins plugged Sano into Plouffe's spot with Santana I would be highly concerned about the left side of the infield from a defensive standpoint. 

[Dantes929]

Trading top prospects can make a lot of sense and is not at all like rearranging deck chairs.   If we have a good third baseman with a top prospect 3rd baseman waiting in the wings with a perceived weakness at SS and someone else has a shortstop they like with a top prospect waiting in the wings and a perceived weakness at 3rd base it can make all the sense in the world to make a trade.  Houston might not be the right partner and shortstop might not be our biggest need with Polanco coming up.   Blake Swihart at catcher?      Maybe it is best in the long run to replace Ploufe but he is finally pretty good and I am not anxious for a similar 3 year arc to polished 3rd baseman for Sano.     .  

[Gene Larkin]

Any talk of trading Sano because of a perceived logjam at third is just crazy. I don't remember the source, but I remember reading in spring training that Tom Kelly called Sano the best player in the Twins organization. Let's also not go too overboard about Ploufe's performance so far this season. For his career, Ploufe has a .247 BA, .419 SLG and .732 OPS -- numbers that you would expect Sano, as a top MLB power hitting prospect, will eventually exceed.

[DaveTMpls]

There will come a time when Sano will be ready for promotion.  He's not ready yet -- he is still committing too many errors at 3B.  IMO, Twins won't make any major position player trades until after this season is over.  8 games above .500, baby.  Let the good times roll.

[Hrbowski]

I'm not worried about Sano's ability to stick at third base, he is going to stay there. Plouffe has turned himself into a gold glove caliber player, so what they should do, is let Sano come up, get some at bats in as a DH this year, and let him play at third next year, and try something else with Plouffe, who I believe would master the corner outfield quickly, maybe not like Alex Gordon, but I think that he would be very good there, or you can trade Plouffe next summer.

 

In my opinion it is to early to talk about this, Sano could do absolutely awful, and Plouffe could get a serious injury, anything is possible, but there are teams that would give a hefty price for an established MLB third basemen, plus Sano should be able to step into the roll of everyday third basemen, but I think we need to hang onto both of them until at least next summer.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Are you though?  Because the way these things normally play out I could throw out the most brilliant suggestion ever and more often than not it gets dismissed because of perceptions on how realistic it is.  We don't know what is out there and what is available, so as long as we're going to play the game of speculation fairly, I'm game.  Hopefully you are too.

 

Trades like this happen, though typically in the offseason.  What we're talking about is a surplus for a surplus deal.  So we need to find a team with garbage at third but a near ready or ready player that is likely either a C, SS, or SP.

 

Here's a sample:  The Astros have a bad 3B.  They also have a kid (who they just called up) by the name of Lance McCullers.  Is that too much for Plouffe?  Maybe, but I'm also not sure I want to give up Plouffe for much less than that and the value seems pretty good to me.  

 

Maybe Susac and more from SFG.  Maybe Syndergaard or Palewki from NYM.  There may be options out there that are strength for strength and shouldn't be so easily dismissed as possibilities.  They allow us to call up a good player at 3B and fill another hole at the same time rather than trying to play someone out of position.  It can and should be explored.

 

I guess step one would be determing where the positions of need are. There is already a rotation crunch looming when Santana returns. The Twins like Suzuki as a starting catcher. Even minus Santana at SS, they like Escobar. And if you get a young SS, that's basically it for Jorge Polanco in the organization.

 

Then there is the fact that you included various unproven players in your potential trades. Is that really the direction the Twins should go at this stage, trading a proven, cheap, above average 3rd baseman for a guy that is basically still a prospect?

 

Value is a factor there, to be sure, but I do wonder if a team will trade a potential ace (or even #2) under team control for 6 years for 2 years of Plouffe. If someone offers that to Ryan, I'm sure he would listen.

 

I personally don't think 2 years of Plouffe is enough to get an elite talent in return. And, if not, it really limits what positions make sense. The only obvious fit for me is at catcher, and that's because I disagree with the Twins about Suzuki.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Here's what I would do.  First, I'd probably promote Sano to AAA come mid-June assuming he's continuing to hit the way he's hit in April.  I'd have him finish out AAA and likely give him a September callup to DH and play some 1B and 3B on occasions.  I'm assuming (a reasonable assumption, but one that could be wrong) he does well enough to earn consideration for the 2016 season, and if that's the case, you have these options:

 

1)  Trade Plouffe, who I think would net a top 100 prospect that is relatively near ready and quite possibly more.  Like someone else said, a C prospect would likely the most obvious option given the lack of good talent there, but I could see high end pitching or an up the middle prospect as well.  Plouffe is that valuable.

 

2)  Move Mauer.  I realize that the chances of this happening are slim, but I really think that Mauer needs to go back to C.  At his current numbers, he's an above average catcher and played some decent defense there too.  You could put Sano at 1B and help him acclimate to defense in MLB as 1B and 3B are relatively similar (minus the long throws).  Consider bringing Sano back to 3rd when Plouffe's time is up.

 

3)  Keep Plouffe for 2 years shuffling Sano in and out of the majors, offer Plouffe arb with the expectation that someone snags him in FA and gives away a 1st round pick or high second round pick.  There's a benefit here in that Sano can fill in for injuries to Mauer or play DH if we continue to see ineffectiveness from Vargas/Arcia. 

 

I'm not sure what I'd do here.  I can see pros and cons to all of these.  The truth is that Plouffe is going to be on the downside of his career in the near future.  I think it's reasonable to expect him to maintain a good level of production for 2 more years, at which point arb might work.  Trade would guarantee a good piece now.  There's risk/reward for each option.  I think if Sano destroys opposing pitchers in his callup, I'd probably trade Plouffe, even though I really like him. 

[Thrylos]

What to do with Plouffe?   Trade him and Nolasco to the Dodgers for Julio Urias come the deadline.  Throw in Kohl Stewart if you have to make it happen.  

 

That's what to do.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I guess step one would be determing where the positions of need are. There is already a rotation crunch looming when Santana returns. The Twins like Suzuki as a starting catcher. Even minus Santana at SS, they like Escobar. And if you get a young SS, that's basically it for Jorge Polanco in the organization.

 

Then there is the fact that you included various unproven players in your potential trades. Is that really the direction the Twins should go at this stage, trading a proven, cheap, above average 3rd baseman for a guy that is basically still a prospect?

 

You seriously think there is some sort of unbreakable logjam of starters that an elite AAA talent wouldn't be able to break through?  I could not disagree more with that assessment.

 

And yes, adding talent that is about to align with our current group is an excellent idea if the talent is good enough.  I thought we were going to speculate fairly but that isn't what's happening if you're going to portray my proposals as "just a prospect".  That clearly was not what I suggested.   I suggested elite talents that could be promoted before the end of this year.  If you can add a talent like that at a position that isn't logjammed?  I call that good team building.  Not shuffling guys around out of position out of fear of losing a 28 year old with 2 years of team control.  

 

But I don't just toss Plouffe aside either.  He's a good player.  But perhaps the team can get better by trading him.

[DaveW]

What to do with Plouffe? Trade him and Nolasco to the Dodgers for Julio Urias come the deadline. Throw in Kohl Stewart if you have to make it happen.

 

That's what to do.

Yeah the Dodgers would never do that deal, also nolasco provides negative value. Urias might be the best pitching prospect in baseball at this point, kid is insane.

[DaveW]

Mauer isn't going back to catcher, nor should he. Let's put that to rest, it's over. Likewise: plouffe isn't going back to SS (Sano too for that matter)

[USAFChief]

Trade Sano. Keep Plouffe. Problem solved, and we get Hamels.

[Thrylos]

 

Yeah the Dodgers would never do that deal, also nolasco provides negative value. Urias might be the best pitching prospect in baseball at this point, kid is insane.

 

The Dodgers are on a win-now mode.  Have you seen the carcasses they are spotting as their starting third baseman and in the back 2 spots of the rotation?   Nolasco and Plouffe will worth the investment for them.  Lots of unbalanced (high end prospects for solid veterans in the deadline.)

 

Yes, the kid is insane (and a lefty,) that's why the Twins should go after him.  Throw in Berrios too

[Kwak]

The Twins are winning--now (improbably) but nevertheless winning now.  Without Sano.  Elite prospect=not a player (yet).  Sano's past, as a fielder, doesn't suggest that he will ever be the standard of excellence in the field--at 3B, or any position.  Sano's value is as a power hitter.  I don't know Plouffe's personal agenda as a player, whether he wants out or prefers Minnesota (all else being equal), but I'm sure not moving Plouffe from 3B.

 

Trading Plouffe?  What is being offered?  But posters, the Twins don't play fantasy BB they play real baseball. Somebody actually must play 3B in real-time not just be classified as a 3B like in fantasy baseball.  Previous Twins experience at 3B (prior to Plouffe) should have convinced posters that having "Hands of Stone" (though fine for boxing) is unacceptable. Move Sano to the OF to see if he can be "hid there" (like Killebrew) or DH it is.  If the Twins need to change their philosophy about a regular DH--so be it.  Remember when they said free-agents (especially pitchers) was just wrong?  They changed their philosophy there--they can do it again for a regular DH, if that is what it takes to play Sano regularly.

[drivlikejehu]

 

You seriously think there is some sort of unbreakable logjam of starters that an elite AAA talent wouldn't be able to break through?  I could not disagree more with that assessment.

 

And yes, adding talent that is about to align with our current group is an excellent idea if the talent is good enough.  I thought we were going to speculate fairly but that isn't what's happening if you're going to portray my proposals as "just a prospect".  That clearly was not what I suggested.   I suggested elite talents that could be promoted before the end of this year.  If you can add a talent like that at a position that isn't logjammed?  I call that good team building.  Not shuffling guys around out of position out of fear of losing a 28 year old with 2 years of team control.  

 

But I don't just toss Plouffe aside either.  He's a good player.  But perhaps the team can get better by trading him.

 

I guess it comes down to whether you believe Plouffe can fetch an elite player in return. Are there examples of actual trades that would resemble your proposals?

 

I've been trying to come up with one, and looked through a website that lists trades over the years, and can't come up with anything.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I guess it comes down to whether you believe Plouffe can fetch an elite player in return. Are there examples of actual trades that would resemble your proposals?

 

I've been trying to come up with one, and looked through a website that lists trades over the years, and can't come up with anything.

 

Not off hand, but players like Plouffe aren't typical either.  (28 years old, two years of team control, good player who came back from the dead essentially)

 

Part of this is I firmly believe that you don't "hide" people in the outfield.  The Twins, for too long, have been playing garbage in the OF and passing it off as acceptable.  Sano having a strong arm out there is meaningless to me - he shouldn't be playing outfield unless he's actually good at that.

 

I've said before I probably play Sano at DH to start and let him work at his defense.  But let's be real here - are going to want to extend Plouffe past his two years of control?  He'll be 30 and looking for a serious pay day.  If the answer to that is "no" (and it probably should be, age curves and all) then isn't now or very soon the right time to deal him?

 

Again, I'd prefer (barring the type of trade I'm talking) to keep Plouffe and DH Sano.  But I wouldn't rule out a trade either.

[Boom Boom]

Mauer at 1B has largely created this problem. IMO, Sano is a first baseman.

 

I think I would trade Arcia, then move Mauer to right or left field to accomodate Sano at first.

[nicksaviking]

I've asked this question a couple times now as there has been little position experimentation with these players.  I say little, but there has been some.  

 

The Twins won't trade Plouffe as they're contending, but they still may want Sano up.  If they want Sano to be the 3B of the future, and it sure looks like they do, you can't move him to DH, even for the rest of the year, even if it's fun to watch these guys play well, Sano needs his reps at 3B, he can't take the rest of the year off.  Again.

 

Plouffe got plenty of 1B reps this spring and has gotten a few games there this year.  My money is on Plouffe and Sano sharing 3B, Plouffe and Mauer sharing 1B and Mauer and Sano sharing DH.  I don't like clogging up the DH spot with only two players, but the team was going to clog it up with one when Vargas was up.

[nicksaviking]

 

Trade Sano. Keep Plouffe. Problem solved, and we get Hamels.

 

Problem solved for 2015.  Come 2017 you're locked in to two 34-year-olds, a 33-year-old and a 32-year-old in your starting rotation.  This year is fun, but if this ship is finally turning around, 2017 is when this team should hopefully truly contend.  Though probably not with that many aging starters.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Not off hand, but players like Plouffe aren't typical either.  (28 years old, two years of team control, good player who came back from the dead essentially)

 

I've said before I probably play Sano at DH to start and let him work at his defense.  But let's be real here - are going to want to extend Plouffe past his two years of control?  He'll be 30 and looking for a serious pay day.  If the answer to that is "no" (and it probably should be, age curves and all) then isn't now or very soon the right time to deal him?

 

Here's a somewhat close example: Span for Meyer. 

 

Span had a longer track record of success, was under contract dirt cheap for 2 years with an affordable option, as opposed to 2 years of arbitration with Plouffe. The return was a pitcher who had never been in AA and was nowhere near a call up.

 

Sano is a good athlete with a good throwing arm. Let him play RF until Mauer's contract is up. So far as Plouffe, he's under team control through 2017. If he helps the Twins continue their turn around, I don't care if he walks after that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not sure why the only options for Plouffe seem to be "trade him" or "extend him". If the Twins are contending, a perfectly reasonable option is to go year-to-year with him and just let him walk, hopefully netting a comp pick in return if he's still a 4-ish WAR player in 2017.

 

Sano might force a decision earlier than that but it's also possible that is the best option for the Twins.

[kab21]

 

Trade Sano. Keep Plouffe. Problem solved, and we get Hamels.

I wouldn't trade Sano for Hamels.  I wait for Loria to blow up the Marlins and go after Stanton.  Or some other younger star that has 3 years on his contract.  If that doesn't present itself then I move Sano to wherever is available that he can handle (likely RF).

[Vanimal46]

A lot of the "problems" we talk about on these threads, which are just fun to speculate, could be solved by letting go of our golden boy Joe. It would never happen with his contract situation, but that would be the best way to keep Plouffe at 3rd and sneak in Sano at 1st for 2016.

[gbg]

I still want to see this Hug Logjam the OP mentions. Is that like a group hug on PEDs? 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Here's a somewhat close example: Span for Meyer. 

 

Span had a longer track record of success, was under contract dirt cheap for 2 years with an affordable option, as opposed to 2 years of arbitration with Plouffe. The return was a pitcher who had never been in AA and was nowhere near a call up.

 

Sano is a good athlete with a good throwing arm. Let him play RF until Mauer's contract is up. So far as Plouffe, he's under team control through 2017. If he helps the Twins continue their turn around, I don't care if he walks after that.

 

Span fetched a very highly rated prospect who was a distance from the minors, but still got a very good return.  A similar value, but closer to major league ready doesn't seem as unlikely as you think given that.

 

Also, I really, really dislike the assumption that he can just be a decent RF.  The strange thing is it often seems to come from the very same people, like me, that bemoan the bad outfield defense on this team.

 

It's fine if you want to just ride out two more years of Plouffe.  My point is that if you can turn two years of Plouffe into a spot for Sano and 6 years of some other impact talent....isn't that far better for the team overall?  If you can't find a trade to accomplish that, fine, keep him.  But, again, I'd be looking for that sort of deal.