Seriously, what do we do with Plouffe once Sano gets called up?

[drivlikejehu]

 

Also, I really, really dislike the assumption that he can just be a decent RF.  The strange thing is it often seems to come from the very same people, like me, that bemoan the bad outfield defense on this team.

 

I'm not saying he would be that decent of a RF. But he's not great at 3rd either, whereas Plouffe is good there. So that switch costs the team heavily in terms of defense. I'm not convinced the hit from playing him in the outfield would be any worse, if at all.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not saying he would be that decent of a RF. But he's not great at 3rd either, whereas Plouffe is good there. So that switch costs the team heavily in terms of defense. I'm not convinced the hit from playing him in the outfield would be any worse, if at all.

 

I tend to believe that you can work with a kid and improve their hands and fielding at third much like we did with Plouffe.  I think good OF defense is much harder to teach.  But that's just my opinion.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I know USAFChief said it, but I mean it.

 

Trade Sano.

 

The scale is the only place Sano will ever compare to Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has a career .321/.398/.565 (.963) slash line. Sano will never be that. That's OK. Very, very few will ever be that in MLB.

 

The insistence that Sano will be some incredible monster is, well, optimistic. Yes, it can happen. Is it a certainty? Absolutely not.

 

If the Twins were offered an awesome SP for Sano (much >Hamels) I would not be shocked to see them pull the trigger.

 

At age 21 Arcia hit .328/.398/.557 (.955) in AA.

At age 22 Sano is hitting .248/.348/.503 (.851) in AA.

 

The kid may grow to be awesome, but let's not anoint the new King too soon.

 

* let the flaming begin

 

[USAFChief]

 

I know USAFChief said it, but I mean it.

 

Trade Sano.

 

The scale is the only place Sano will ever compare to Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has a career .321/.398/.565 (.963) slash line. Sano will never be that. That's OK. Very, very few will ever be that in MLB.

 

The insistence that Sano will be some incredible monster is, well, optimistic. Yes, it can happen. Is it a certainty? Absolutely not.

 

If the Twins were offered an awesome SP for Sano (much >Hamels) I would not be shocked to see them pull the trigger.

 

At age 21 Arcia hit .328/.398/.557 (.955) in AA.

At age 22 Sano is hitting .248/.348/.503 (.851) in AA.

 

The kid may grow to be awesome, but let's not anoint the new King too soon.

 

* let the flaming begin

'zactly.

 

In the minor league forum, I proposed Sano and Nolasco for Hamels.  There's the salary relief for the Phillies, without killing the Twins.

 

I'd do that trade today, and sign Plouffe through his two arb years and first two free agent years.

 

 

[halfchest]

Tough to trade anyone who is making a positive contribution when you currently look like a playoff contender.  Especially an everyday guy and take a chance that a prospect can fill that void left by a guy like Plouffe offensively or defensively.  Long term, sure we all assume Sano is the better player but for 2015 and even 2016 the truth is Plouffe may be the better man to stay there.  If Sano forces the issue and shows he can handle major league pitching in 2016 then you look at your options that offseason or maybe even trade deadline in 2016.  I don't see any issues right now with just seeing how things pan out.  A lot can change between now and when they are really forced to bring Sano up. 

 

If the Twins are still sniffing the playoffs come August then we see some callups of guys like Buxton and Sano so they are playoff eligible.  Otherwise barring injury or big drops in performance I don't see a need to force Sano or Buxton up.  

 

 

[halfchest]

As far as the Sano for Hamels . . . . yes I can see that.  As much as it would be sad to never see Sano take an at bat for the major league team, they already have an above average to great offense and that's with a realtively young core and lots of parts in the minors or injured right now in Buxton, Polanco, Vargas, Kepler, Arcia, Pinto, Walker, etc.  

 

Think of this current offense with a rotation of 

 

Hamels,

Hughes

Santana

Gibson

May/Pelfrey/Berrios/Milone 

 

The Twins suddenly have one of the better rotations in the game to pair with a great offense, improving defense, and still stacked farm system.  

 

Wonder if that would be enough for Hamels honestly?  Might have to give one more piece like a young upside picher Wu or Gonsalves too.  Still might be worth it.

 

While I struggle to condone trading a guy like Sano, Hamels might be one of the few pieces out there you consider dealing him for.  It almost has to have them taking Nolasco though for salary and to open up a rotation spot.  

[Willihammer]

Sano is a powerball ticket unlike any other prospect in the system IMO. Still tradeable but would have to be blown away. Its hard to even put a ceiling on his home run potential IMO

[Shane Wahl]

There is just no way in hell that I would not promote Sano by August 1 this year. He has an .890 career AA OPS with 28 homers in 457 plate appearances.The logam for this year will be between Arcia, Vargas, Pinto and Sano.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

As far as the Sano for Hamels . . . . yes I can see that.  As much as it would be sad to never see Sano take an at bat for the major league team, they already have an above average to great offense and that's with a realtively young core and lots of parts in the minors or injured right now in Buxton, Polanco, Vargas, Kepler, Arcia, Pinto, Walker, etc.  

 

Think of this current offense with a rotation of 

 

Hamels,

Hughes

Santana

Gibson

May/Pelfrey/Berrios/Milone 

 

The Twins suddenly have one of the better rotations in the game to pair with a great offense, improving defense, and still stacked farm system.  

 

Wonder if that would be enough for Hamels honestly?  Might have to give one more piece like a young upside picher Wu or Gonsalves too.  Still might be worth it.

 

While I struggle to condone trading a guy like Sano, Hamels might be one of the few pieces out there you consider dealing him for.  It almost has to have them taking Nolasco though for salary and to open up a rotation spot.  

 

I should think it would be enough. Hamels has like $72.5 million guaranteed for 2016-2018 (including buyout).

The salary relief for the Phillies should play into it significantly.

 

[DaveW]

If you are able to play 3rd base in the majors, you probably should be able to hold down RF decently as well.

 

The fact is, Sano isnt going to be a defensive asset most likely any position he is at. Much rather hide a liability in Rf instead of 3B

[USAFChief]

 

If you are able to play 3rd base in the majors, you probably should be able to hold down RF decently as well.

The fact is, Sano isnt going to be a defensive asset most likely any position he is at. Much rather hide a liability in Rf instead of 3B

I would agree with that.  If Sano pushes his way to the majors, they don't have to move Plouffe to play him.

 

He could most likely play a passable corner outfield.  

[DaveW]

I would agree with that. If Sano pushes his way to the majors, they don't have to move Plouffe to play him.

 

He could most likely play a passable corner outfield.

And if not, just DH him. No shame in being a DH if you are putting up 35 HR a year.

[blairpaul715]

 

 

Problem solved for 2015.  Come 2017 you're locked in to two 34-year-olds, a 33-year-old and a 32-year-old in your starting rotation.  This year is fun, but if this ship is finally turning around, 2017 is when this team should hopefully truly contend.  Though probably not with that many aging starters.

 

 

Definitely not advocating trading Sano for Hamels, but as far as aging starters and not contending, ask SF Giants last yr how that went..........World Series starters: Hudson-39, Peavy-33, Bumgarner 25, Vogelsong-37............so it wouldnt be the end, just have to keep some in the pipeline.

 

 

[Gene Larkin]

I don't understand why so many people have already decided Sano is some kind of butcher at third. Terry Ryan has spoke highly of his defense, and said his weight is not an issue for staying at 3rd long term. It sounds like at AA he is making a lot of spectacular plays to his left and right but struggles at times with routine plays. Like many young players, especially those learning a new position, with experience and more repetition, he should improve defensively. Many on this thread are raving about Ploufe's defense, but I clearly remember how much of a liability he was in the infield when he first came up. With time and experience, he has improved.

[Gene Larkin]

The scale is the only place Sano will ever compare to Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has a career .321/.398/.565 (.963) slash line. Sano will never be that. That's OK. Very, very few will ever be that in MLB.

 

At age 21 Arcia hit .328/.398/.557 (.955) in AA.

At age 22 Sano is hitting .248/.348/.503 (.851) in AA.

 

The kid may grow to be awesome, but let's not anoint the new King too soon.

 

 

Interesting that you compared a full AA season of Arcia to 1/4 season of Sano this year in which he got off to a slow start after sitting out entire 2014 season. In Sano's last full season at age 20, he hit .280/ .382/ .619/ (.992). That may not be quite Cabrera like but it's pretty close.,

[TwinsCD]

Been a week or so since I've been on the forum.  Perused it tonight and saw this thread.

 

*BRAKES SCREECHING*  

 

Whoa, people, slow down!!  Why are we trying to 'rush' Sano to the big leagues?  Yeah, the kid (and Buxton too, but he's not the subject of this thread) is likely a stud but he's still a year removed from not playing at all because of that elbow.  Let him go through the minor league progression and honestly, with the way the Twins are going right now, they don't have a need to rush Sano (and Buxton).  This could be the best thing for their development.  I'm going to loosely use Hicks as an example.  We know he's not the caliber of Sano but at the time of him being thrust into the opening day lineup, I think he was starting to become that guy.  If the Twins hold on to Span and/or Revere, Hicks gets the chance to continue up the ranks and there's no major league pressure for him to perform.  Instead, they trade away BOTH and Hicks has to be the opening day CF.  And we saw what happened there.  And we've seen what happened since.  I would hope that the injury to Sano combined with Plouffe's production and the Twins current record would mean they'd be happy with letting Sano continue to work out his game.

 

So let's coooooool the jets on this Sano to the majors talk...for now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I know USAFChief said it, but I mean it.

 

Trade Sano.

 

The scale is the only place Sano will ever compare to Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has a career .321/.398/.565 (.963) slash line. Sano will never be that. That's OK. Very, very few will ever be that in MLB.

 

The insistence that Sano will be some incredible monster is, well, optimistic. Yes, it can happen. Is it a certainty? Absolutely not.

 

If the Twins were offered an awesome SP for Sano (much >Hamels) I would not be shocked to see them pull the trigger.

 

At age 21 Arcia hit .328/.398/.557 (.955) in AA.

At age 22 Sano is hitting .248/.348/.503 (.851) in AA.

 

The kid may grow to be awesome, but let's not anoint the new King too soon.

 

* let the flaming begin

That's a pretty convenient way to downplay Sano's ability.

 

The guy didn't play baseball for a year. He underwent elbow surgery. Unsurprisingly, his OPS In April was just .684.

 

Then he shook off the rust. In May, his OPS is .970.

 

The last time he played a full season, 2013, his OPS was .992 between two leagues.

 

So yeah. Miguel Sano.

[Jerr]

 

Makes no sense to put him in the outfield or 1B with his defense at 3B.  I think they deal him or extend him, then think about their options with Sano.  The problem is that Sano is not going to be a better 3B than Plouffe for awhile, if ever.  Is Sano a lifetime DH? - maybe.

Put Sano in a corner outfield position in the minors, now. He has to run more and will lose some baby lbs. and will become a ok fielder with a BIG bat. I hope in the Majors.

 

Plouffle has 3rd base locked up right now, in my opinion

[Jerr]

 

The Twins are winning--now (improbably) but nevertheless winning now.  Without Sano.  Elite prospect=not a player (yet).  Sano's past, as a fielder, doesn't suggest that he will ever be the standard of excellence in the field--at 3B, or any position.  Sano's value is as a power hitter.  I don't know Plouffe's personal agenda as a player, whether he wants out or prefers Minnesota (all else being equal), but I'm sure not moving Plouffe from 3B.

 

Trading Plouffe?  What is being offered?  But posters, the Twins don't play fantasy BB they play real baseball. Somebody actually must play 3B in real-time not just be classified as a 3B like in fantasy baseball.  Previous Twins experience at 3B (prior to Plouffe) should have convinced posters that having "Hands of Stone" (though fine for boxing) is unacceptable. Move Sano to the OF to see if he can be "hid there" (like Killebrew) or DH it is.  If the Twins need to change their philosophy about a regular DH--so be it.  Remember when they said free-agents (especially pitchers) was just wrong?  They changed their philosophy there--they can do it again for a regular DH, if that is what it takes to play Sano regularly.

Could not say it much better!

[jimbo92107]

 

Unless you eat his whole contract, you aren't trading Mauer for anything at all. He doesn't hit well at all anymore. No one is taking that contract, no one.

 

And, Kepler or Sano are your next 1B, not Vargas.

You could be right about Joe Mauer, but there is one team that still might want him: Boston. It's true that his value has gone down since he stopped catching, but Mauer still is able to hit a lot of balls to the opposite field. I sometimes wondered what his numbers would be like if Mauer had spent his career there. Imagine all those balls caught at the warning track in left field, both at the Dome and in Target. In Boston, all those outs would be hitting the Green Monster, bouncing off for doubles.

 

In 2009, Joe Mauer hit .369 with 28 homers and 30 doubles. If he'd been playing for Boston, he might have cracked .400! Even now, people must wonder what Mauer could do if half his games were in Boston. He's still a good RBI guy, and he's a great athlete. He could play first, or a corner outfield spot. Joe Mauer could have a renaissance in Boston.

[nicksaviking]

 

Definitely not advocating trading Sano for Hamels, but as far as aging starters and not contending, ask SF Giants last yr how that went..........World Series starters: Hudson-39, Peavy-33, Bumgarner 25, Vogelsong-37............so it wouldnt be the end, just have to keep some in the pipeline.

 

One of those names certainly sticks out from the others. 25-year-old Bumgarner won the WS despite those veterans.  Hudson, Peavy and Vogelsong all fell somewhere between terrible to historicly awful last post season.

 

Also, under the scnario where the Twins go with four aging vets, that leads me to belive that young(ish) Kyle Gibson is the default Madison Bumgarner?

[clone52]

 

Would Sano and Danny Santana or maybe Nick Gordon  get Carlos Correea?   Houston looks like they could use a third baseman.    I would rather keep Plouffe and have an uber prospect at short than uber prospect at 3rd with Santana at short, much as I like Sanana.   Lindor or Russel might also be attractive. 

 

Houston isn't trading Correa.  That'd be like offering the Twins prospects for Buxton.

[Vanimal46]

 

One of those names certainly sticks out from the others. 25-year-old Bumgarner won the WS despite those veterans.  Hudson, Peavy and Vogelsong all fell somewhere between terrible to historicly awful last post season.

 

Also, under the scnario where the Twins go with four aging vets, that leads me to belive that young(ish) Kyle Gibson is the default Madison Bumgarner?

 

 

If that's the case where Gibson is the default Bumgarner, we are toast.

[cmoss84]

A lot of these guys being mentioned are nearly untouchable...Syndergaard, Correa, Urias. Not gonna happen for Plouffe. That being said, I think later on this year is the perfect sell-high time to trade him. Someone mentioned Pawlecki from the Mets-good idea since they have a couple catchers. I would also like to get Hedges from SD or Crick from the giants, but don't think those would happen either.

[Vance_Christianson]

I thought I heard somewhere that Sano already has 9 errors this year at 3b? I know that we've been waiting for years for Sano to arrive, but i'm honestly starting to think that he needs to either, A:learn how to play RF, or B:become a full-time DH, and still be able to play 3rd in a pinch. Plouffe is way too valueable to just throw away or trade for another prospect. He's a top 10 3b. I think it'll be a few years before Sano could even think about being in the same position as him, especially at 260 lbs or whatever he's currently at. He has a cannon of an arm, lets start working on him some in AA at RF, and see how it goes. Sano in RF makes our 2016 lineup much stronger!

Projection:

1. Buxton - CF

2. Dozier - 2b

3. Mauer - 1b

4. Plouffe - 3b  the next Cuddy, he's just entering his prime years

5. Sano - RF

6. Vargas/Arcia - DH

7. Suzuki - C

8. Polanco - SS

9. Hicks - LF

Bench: Acia/Vargas (bench bat), Hermann/Pinto (backup C), Escobar (infield utility), Rosario (4th OF)

[Brock Beauchamp]

Errors mean virtually nothing in minor league baseball, particularly for infielders. For all we know, he's playing on a dirt lot with used tires strewn around the mound.

 

(an exaggeration but grounded in reality)

[USAFChief]

 

Errors mean virtually nothing in minor league baseball, particularly for infielders. For all we know, he's playing on a dirt lot with used tires strewn around the mound.

 

(an exaggeration but grounded in reality)

That's actually not even close to true.  AA infields are, by and large, pretty darn good.  We're not talking sandlot ball here.

[blairpaul715]

 

One of those names certainly sticks out from the others. 25-year-old Bumgarner won the WS despite those veterans.  Hudson, Peavy and Vogelsong all fell somewhere between terrible to historicly awful last post season.

 

Also, under the scnario where the Twins go with four aging vets, that leads me to belive that young(ish) Kyle Gibson is the default Madison Bumgarner?

Well, they did get to the World Series, and I agree that younger, if everything else is equal, is probably better. But to say if we had 4 , 33 yr olds, that it would be the deathknell to getting to the playoffs, would be absurd, and i am not saying you said that, but someone basically said we couldnt win with 4 aging pitchers, and that is not extremely old.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That's actually not even close to true.  AA infields are, by and large, pretty darn good.  We're not talking sandlot ball here.

Yeah, the higher minors have good fields by and large. I went hyperbole and a half with that post.

 

But errors are still mostly useless stats even in MLB, much less MiLB.

[Ncgo4]

Get on a winning streak and lots of players begin to look like All Stars. We do not have a starting pitcher that should be considered a first or second level starter. When Santana gets back we will have one more. If Berrios has a few more quality starts he should be considered for call up. He won't be, of course, because mgmt doesn't to drop one of those $50 million or $30 million stupid contracts they gave away. Hu is also moving to AA very shortly (I pray) and may have better basics than Berrios.

 

As far as Sano, I don't know what they do, but he's such a huge (no pun intended, should have said major) potential talent that neither Plouffe or Mauer can be allowed to stand in his way. We're talking 35-40 HR talent and this just doesn't come around often.