Nunez Activated, Vargas Optioned

[SwainZag]

 

Arcia isn't ready.  Vargas has been mashing since April 29.  There's room for Vargas as the DH now.  Still have one too many utility infielders.

 

He has been hitting better, but mashing?  49 AB, 2 2B, 2 HR, 6 RBI, 2 BB, 12 K.  Can we save the word mashing for when.....idk....someone is actually doing it?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He has been hitting better, but mashing?  49 AB, 2 2B, 2 HR, 6 RBI, 2 BB, 12 K.  Can we save the word mashing for when.....idk....someone is actually doing it?

It's an .883 OPS, which would be about a 140 OPS+.  And they actually started benching him a week ago, when he had a .951 OPS and a lower K rate since April 29.

[Linus]

 

But all of those goals and roles could be accomplished with Vargas staying as the regular DH right now.

 

The difference is that Molitor has not been playing Escobar as a utility player, but rather as an everyday player.

Well, since he is our best hitter right now, I don't really have an issue with him playing a lot.  Plus, isn't he one of the young guys that everyone on TD insists needs to play?

[Blackjack]

The world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

Let me repeat that, the world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

If he goes down and doesn't do very well, then he needs more time and experience in the minors. If he goes down and mashes the ball, he'll be back.  Plain and simple.

 

When he does get back, the experience of riding the buses again will make him work harder to stay.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Well, since he is our best hitter right now, I don't really have an issue with him playing a lot.  Plus, isn't he one of the young guys that everyone on TD insists needs to play?

Escobar is indeed hitting well, with an .810 OPS since April 29.  Still less than Vargas in that time period (and no less sustainable in the BB/K department), despite having more regular ABs.

 

I guess the elephant in the room is Joe Mauer -- I think I mentioned it upthread, but he's on pace to start 155 games this year.  And he's got a .709 OPS on the year, and it's not trending up.  If he has to sit a game here and there to get Vargas enough PAs to make his MLB presence worthwhile, so be it.

[Squirrel]

Just like in a chess match, this is what happens when a grandmaster makes an obvious blunder- may I suggest, many of us find this move "honestly skin-curdling." Neither TR, Molly or you, have as of yet provided that "reasonable explanation" or "credible argument" that would quell "the mob."

And we likely aren't going to hear explanations into every decision made. It's not the way it's done. No organization has 'tipped their hand' in that manner as to be completely transparent in every decision they make, and shouldn't, IMO, even though we might want them to. And while many don't like this particular move, some have given some thought and leeway into seeing what the next piece to puzzle might be instead of jumping all over this particular decision and opening the door once again into the forays of FO mismanagement. Let's just see where this goes and what the next decision is before letting the mob take over.

[twinsnorth49]

 

The world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

Let me repeat that, the world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

If he goes down and doesn't do very well, then he needs more time and experience in the minors. If he goes down and mashes the ball, he'll be back.  Plain and simple.

 

When he does get back, the experience of riding the buses again will make him work harder to stay.

Vargas got sent down because he wasn't working hard enough? 

 

He will go back and mash the ball, just like Arcia would, and in short order as well. There is very little at AAA that will aid either of these guys  at the Major League level and that's the level they need to spend time in figuring it out.

 

[Gene Larkin]

Here's my sense of the timing of the Vargas demotion and what may be happening with the roster. As many have pointed out, the Twins will play the next two games in Pittsburgh so there's no need for a DH. Vargas could pitch hit in those games but if he got on base he's so slow that the team likely would need to pinch run for him, burning another position player. Molitor also may be thinking about making double switches in the NL park. Using Bernier may make more sense in those situations because he can play multiple infield positions, while Vargas is limited to playing first base and Maurer isn't coming out of the game unless it's already decided.

 

On the team's off day on Thursday, I would not be surprised if Pinto gets called up and Bernier is then shipped out. Pinto, who has hit well at AAA, could then DH or occasionally spell Suzuki at catcher. Hermann, who is hitting about .156 by the way, could then be sent down for Arcia, when he is healthy, or Vargas, after he is eligible to be brought back up.

[Willihammer]

Based on the info. I've heard, about BP and now from Vargas talking to Phil Miller, the Twins message to Vargas seems to be, "work on the long ball, just not in BP. Only in games."

 

?

[jokin]

 

The world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

Let me repeat that, the world isn't coming to an end just because Vargas got sent to Rochester!!!!

 

If he goes down and doesn't do very well, then he needs more time and experience in the minors. If he goes down and mashes the ball, he'll be back.  Plain and simple.

 

When he does get back, the experience of riding the buses again will make him work harder to stay.

 

I didn't see one post upthread that suggested the world was coming to an end- just that a head-scratching move that offers no obviously evidentiary immediate benefit to a team currently in the wild card hunt.  And to be plain and simply accurate, he' already mashing the ball.  Perhaps there will soon come a time to send Vargas down for more seasoning, based on what is known publicly, this was not the week to do so.

[jokin]

 

Based on the info. I've heard, about BP and now from Vargas talking to Phil Miller, the Twins message to Vargas seems to be, "work on the long ball, just not in BP. Only in games."

 

?

 

The young man sounds a bit confused by a muddled management message, much like David Ortiz did at a similar stage in his own development while a member of the Twins.

[gocgo]

My initial guess was that the move to send Vargas down has more to do with the upcoming NL schedule.  No DH, so why let your young DH just sit on the bench?  Send him down to AAA and have him play every day and tune the swing rather than pinch hitting maybe once a game.  Bernier is someone they can send back down without worry of getting picked up by someone else.

 

...and then I actually looked at the schedule.  Dunno, but in a couple of weeks this move would make more sense.  Oh well, go Twins!

[TheLeviathan]

If the quote to Phil Miller is an accurate depiction of what Vargas was told on his way to Rochester......it makes my reaction even worse. 

 

He had been starting to drive the ball more and make better contact.  My problem continues to be with timing - why now?  He seems to be making that adjustment to big league pitching right now.  He simply can't make that same adjustment in AAA, so this seems like the absolute worst possible time to do this for Vargas.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

On the team's off day on Thursday, I would not be surprised if Pinto gets called up and Bernier is then shipped out. Pinto, who has hit well at AAA, could then DH or occasionally spell Suzuki at catcher. Hermann, who is hitting about .156 by the way, could then be sent down for Arcia, when he is healthy, or Vargas, after he is eligible to be brought back up.

That wouldn't be a terrible move, especially if they are finally ready to reduce Suzuki's playing time, but it still doesn't explain why they wouldn't have made the move a week ago instead of just benching Vargas at that time.

 

Also, Pinto isn't hitting THAT well at AAA this year (.786 OPS, 25% K rate), and over the past week he's 5-26 with 0 HR, 2 BB, and 11 K.  And he's only played 5 of his team's 15 games at catcher after May 1st.

 

It would be little weird to demote a DH/1B who's bat is heating up in MLB for a DH/C who's bat has been cooling down in AAA.  And even stranger to try to squeeze a few useful interleague games from Bernier in between -- with Nunez back, Bernier is probably no better than 4th on the depth chart at any given position, right?

[nicksaviking]

 

The young man sounds a bit confused by a muddled management message, much like David Ortiz did at a similar stage in his own development while a member of the Twins.

 

Except that Ortiz seemed to get the exact opposite message.

 

I guess since it was pretty unanimous that they gave Ortiz the wrong message, this is progress?

[jokin]

 

If the quote to Phil Miller is an accurate depiction of what Vargas was told on his way to Rochester......it makes my reaction even worse. 

 

He had been starting to drive the ball more and make better contact.  My problem continues to be with timing - why now?  He seems to be making that adjustment to big league pitching right now.  He simply can't make that same adjustment in AAA, so this seems like the absolute worst possible time to do this for Vargas.

 

Spot on, I researched the numbers and can confirm this.  It looks like someone in a decision-making role didn't or just disregarded them.

[zchrz]

Vargas needs to mash to keep his spot, especially with Mauer/ Hunter/ Arcia/ Pinto all available to take some DH games.  Vargas can go to AAA get his mash back on, and some confidence growing, and force his way back up. This move also extends Rosario's stay, which I think he has earned

[jokin]

 

Except that Ortiz seemed to get the exact opposite message.

 

I guess since it was pretty unanimous that they gave Ortiz the wrong message, this is progress?

 

I wasn't referring to the content, just the fact that Ortiz's time with Twins left him befuddled at what they wanted from him-   (His 'best guess' turned out to be:  "You want me to swing like a little girl? I'll swing like a little girl.")

[jokin]

 

Vargas needs to mash to keep his spot, especially with Mauer/ Hunter/ Arcia/ Pinto all available to take some DH games.  Vargas can go to AAA get his mash back on, and some confidence growing, and force his way back up. This move also extends Rosario's stay, which I think he has earned

 

It's already on.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Vargas needs to mash to keep his spot, especially with Mauer/ Hunter/ Arcia/ Pinto all available to take some DH games.  Vargas can go to AAA get his mash back on, and some confidence growing, and force his way back up. This move also extends Rosario's stay, which I think he has earned

Arcia's not available.  Pinto is arguably worse (and also technically not available).  Mauer's hitting has been suspect for a year-plus.  If you need to see more of Rosario, give Escobar a day off, or put him at third and move Plouffe to first and give Mauer a day off.

 

Escobar and Santana have each gotten DH starts recently, with Vargas available.

[Minniman]

 

It is too bad Hermann can't hit like he does in AAA. He has thrown out 3 or 4 runners trying to steal. He never really gets a chance to play more - to get a rhythm in the show. Oh to have not traded Wilson Ramos.

 

Bad trade the minute the ink was dry.

[Jham]

 

But all of those goals and roles could be accomplished with Vargas staying as the regular DH right now.

 

The difference is that Molitor has not been playing Escobar as a utility player, but rather as an everyday player.

 

Arcia isn't ready.  Vargas has been mashing since April 29.  There's room for Vargas as the DH now.  Still have one too many utility infielders.

 

I was just answering the rather extreme view point that if Vargas is not on the team now, we will never have a place for him.  I would not mind seeing Vargas stick around and see if he can keep building on his little streak.  But I hardly think getting him some time in AAA cause for concern or upheaval.  Again, I suspect he'll be back soon. 

 

 

[jokin]

 

I was just answering the rather extreme view point that if Vargas is not on the team now, we will never have a place for him.  I would not mind seeing Vargas stick around and see if he can keep building on his little streak.  But I hardly think getting him some time in AAA cause for concern or upheaval.  Again, I suspect he'll be back soon. 

 

It's going to take quite a bit of doing on his part to make that happen, there are increasingly limited playing options for him already, and when Arcia gets back, it just gets harder to get him in there.

[Jham]

 

It's going to take quite a bit of doing on his part to make that happen, there are increasingly limited playing options for him already, and when Arcia gets back, it just gets harder to get him in there.

 

I think I'm just a bigger believer in his talent.  The only legitimate "block" I see, is Plouffe and Sano, who I suspect are both above average players.  The ones being discussed, with the exception of Arcia and Vargas, are in my opinion, likely to be average, useful players at best.  I would hope Vargas could pass them in that regard.  If he can't beat out Pinto or Arcia, well, he probably does deserve to be in AAA.

[Craig Arko]

Doesn't matter what I think the crusty GM is set in his ways and is going to do things his way no matter what we all think should be good roster management.

Please don't pretend to speak for others. We're all quite capable of sticking our own feet in our mouths.

[Kwak]

 

But all of those goals and roles could be accomplished with Vargas staying as the regular DH right now.

 

The difference is that Molitor has not been playing Escobar as a utility player, but rather as an everyday player.

But, there are reasons for that... .  Escobar isn't my favorite--but I'm confident he is one of Ryan's favs.  I still believe that Santana is at SS because that's who Molitor wants--and not Ryan.  I believe a deal was struck between the two about these two.  Add to the mix that Escobar has contributed (surprise) to winning despite not being a prototypical LF (or an especially good one).  Teams tend to "ride the wave" when they are winning--and that wave includes Escobar.  Will the wave crash and break-up on the rocks?  Probably.  But, Vargas would be sitting in Minnesota rather than playing in Rochester.  

Vargas isn't useful on the bench or plinking singles to keep his average up.  He must slug--or make way for someone else. The logjam will only get thicker and shortly, when the "higher rated prospects" get promoted to the Twins. Guys like Vargas ( Arcia, Hicks, Rosario, and Santana ) must show they belong in the line-up--or else.  My guess is that trades may get made, but that is unclear.  But what is clear--there isn't room for everyone.

For now, status quo is to be expected.  Bernier isn't the reason Vargas is going to Rochester, of that I am certain.

[SheboyganBrats]

When Bernier got called up, I was sure he was going to be sent down as soon as Nunez came off the DL.  So, add me to the list of folks who are mystified by this particular move.  I understand that Vargas may be going down to work on some things, but IMHO the stuff he has to work on is best done facing MLB pitchers, not AAA pitchers.  Having said that, my biggest fear at the start of the season was that the Twins would stay with the opening roster until at least June, maybe later.  I've been pleasantly surprised at the roster moves so far, and I've come to believe that there's more moves coming.  So, I hope that in 2-3 weeks the plan becomes more clear and this move makes sense in the bigger picture.  So I guess I won't get my undies in a bunch...yet.

 

I must admit, I'm looking forward to the possibility of watching some games with Rosario, Hicks and Robinson in the outfield with Hunter DHing, but I shudder somewhat at the batting lineup those days.

[jokin]

 

I think I'm just a bigger believer in his talent.  The only legitimate "block" I see, is Plouffe and Sano, who I suspect are both above average players.  The ones being discussed, with the exception of Arcia and Vargas, are in my opinion, likely to be average, useful players at best.  I would hope Vargas could pass them in that regard.  If he can't beat out Pinto or Arcia, well, he probably does deserve to be in AAA.

 

But, there are reasons for that... .  Escobar isn't my favorite--but I'm confident he is one of Ryan's favs.  I still believe that Santana is at SS because that's who Molitor wants--and not Ryan.  I believe a deal was struck between the two about these two.  Add to the mix that Escobar has contributed (surprise) to winning despite not being a prototypical LF (or an especially good one).  Teams tend to "ride the wave" when they are winning--and that wave includes Escobar.  Will the wave crash and break-up on the rocks?  Probably.  But, Vargas would be sitting in Minnesota rather than playing in Rochester.  

Vargas isn't useful on the bench or plinking singles to keep his average up.  He must slug--or make way for someone else. The logjam will only get thicker and shortly, when the "higher rated prospects" get promoted to the Twins. Guys like Vargas ( Arcia, Hicks, Rosario, and Santana ) must show they belong in the line-up--or else.  My guess is that trades may get made, but that is unclear.  But what is clear--there isn't room for everyone.

For now, status quo is to be expected.  Bernier isn't the reason Vargas is going to Rochester, of that I am certain.

 

Like Ortiz, Vargas is an unconventional baseball player, and he will have to force his way onto a roster.  The good news is that unlike Ortiz, Vargas is a switch hitter, who has already showed this year he could adjust positively to the pitching adjustments, besides raising his LD% to 29.3% (only Dozier had a higher rate), he also has shown he can hit the ball to all fields- taking what the pitching is giving him.  He's also shown in the minor leagues that like Ortiz, he sees the ball well, and will likely eventually be able to bolster his OBP with a decent BB/K rate.

 

I just hope, as in the case of Ortiz, that it isn't Twins pitching that he ends up punishing- as of right now, with Arcia due back soon, he is a man without a position on this club.  He is likely never going to get a chance at 1B for at least the next few years- if ever, and the Twins tend to shy away from employing a regular DH, and since Thome departed, aren't even in the market for a late-inning pinch slugger.  His only recourse is to bash his way back onto the roster.

[kab21]

I can understand Vargas getting sent down but not considering the other player options.  I really hate the idea of starting utility IF'ers at DH.  This really burns me. 

 

I also think way too much is being read into the benefit of Vargas playing in AAA vs being on the bench in PIT.  He has been getting sat in American League games.  The only thing that I can think of is that there is a message being sent and in some way Vargas has been dogging it.  Bernier just happens to be the live body that benefits from this situation.

 

Such begins the time of the Molitor doghouse for young players.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I also do not get the obsession of tying Vargas' development to Bernier. It seems to be a stretch in the fabric of reality.

yeah, Vargas' development needs to be at the big league level hitting big league pitching.