Which Move Happens First?

[Seth Stohs]

The Twins are still less than 20 games into the season, but very soon the team will have to consider transactions. So, which of these will happen first?

 

Will the Twins call up Aaron Hicks or Josmil Pinto first? here are the numbers worth considering, though it is important to notice the still-very-small sample sizes:

 

 

Kennys Vargas: 15 games, .161/.230/.232 (.462), 1-2B, 1-HR

Josmil Pinto: 12 games, .302/.423/.395 (.818), 1-2B, 1-HR

 

Can Pinto be a backup catcher? Maybe. But he probably can hit enough to be a DH.

 

 

Jordan Schafer: .132/.154/.158 (.312), 1-2B

Aaron Hicks: .291/.375/.473 (848), 3-2B, 2-3B, 1-HR

 

Hicks was sent down because he needed to gain confidence and put up some numbers in AAA. He's done that while playing very good defense too. 

 

(It is obviously important to note that Pinto's and Hicks' numbers are coming against AAA pitching.) 

 

 

If Hicks comes up, does Schafer just get DFAd, or does Robinson get DFAd? 

 

 

One a side note, I do think that the Twins made the right decisions in each of these cases in spring training. Vargas showed what he 'could' do in a couple of months last season and even though we knew he would regress some, it was good to give him that spot. Also, Pinto had the concussion right before the season.

 

Schafer showed in 2 months what he is capable of as a regular... Did we think it was sustainable? Probably not. And, Hicks' development was important. Handing him the starting job again probably wasn't the best idea. 

 

So, what do you think? Will these happen soon?

 

I'd say within a week if something doesn't happen very soon. 

[Halsey Hall]

First is Vargas down and Pinto up.  We need somebody that can hit.  Vargas needs to learn the spin of the ball. 

[JB_Iowa]

Can someone explain two things to me about Pinto?

1.  Have the Twins given up on him as a catcher?  I think it was yesterday that Berardino tweeted that "if called up", Pinto could be an emergency catcher.  Not back-up, certainly not started but EMERGENCY?  That seems like a real downgrade.

 

2.  Why does Pinto keep getting hit in the helmet on the back swing?  It happened again yesterday I believe and while there wasn't an injury, this seems like a recipe for (eventual) disaster.  Is it where he sets up?  Is it his squat?  Someone please enlighten me.

 

Maybe question 1 has something to do with questions 2.  Thanks.

[Willihammer]

Hicks vs RHP: .257/.308/.371 (39 PAs)

vs. LHP: .350/.480/.650 (25 PAs)

[Willihammer]

 

Can someone explain two things to me about Pinto?

1.  Have the Twins given up on him as a catcher?  I think it was yesterday that Berardino tweeted that "if called up", Pinto could be an emergency catcher.  Not back-up, certainly not started but EMERGENCY?  That seems like a real downgrade.

 

2.  Why does Pinto keep getting hit in the helmet on the back swing?  It happened again yesterday I believe and while there wasn't an injury, this seems like a recipe for (eventual) disaster.  Is it where he sets up?  Is it his squat?  Someone please enlighten me.

 

Maybe question 1 has something to do with questions 2.  Thanks.

1. I would say so, considering Suzuki has literally never been removed from a game due to injury.

 

2. I think it has to be wrong/too close positioning. Adam Jones has a big swing but he doesn't hit every catcher in the head 3 times per PA like he did to Pinto. I assume the same is true about this other guy who knocked him. As a guess, perhaps Pinto cheats closer to the plate to aid in blocking pitches since that seems to have been a persistent area of struggle.

[Willihammer]

Certainly before the Twins platoon Hicks, they have to explore the RHB vs. RHP angle, no?

[mikelink45]

It is the same answer we have been looking for all year - bring up the young guys - sink or swim with them and move on the roster fillers.  Both should be up and soon - preferably for the next home stand.  I am really sorry to see Vargas struggle and I do believe he can get it straight and be back up, but AAA seems like the best for a few week.s

 

[Thrylos]

The Twins can do 3 things right now to improve the team:

 

- DFA Schafer, recall Hicks as the starting CF.

- Option Vargas, recall Danny Ortiz, (.250/.333/.425, Schafer's 40-man spot) have him and Robinson rotate at LF and have Arcia and Hunter rotate at DH, until you find a taker for Hunter

- Optiona Santana (.203/.203/.237) have Escobar and Nunez as the starting and back up SSs and recall Pinto and have him as the primary catcher with Herrman and Suzuki (.204/.291/.327) backing him up as spelling Mauer at first, until you find a taker for Suzuki.

 

Got to play with the hot hand to win games and the Twins need to start thinking that way.    Levi Michael (.278/.386/.556) should be next in line.

[DJSim22]

Recall Pinto and option Vargas, Hicks needs to prove it in a much larger sample size for me to trust him.  I'd like to see those numbers for another month. 

[jorgenswest]

Still too early. Suggested on the radio show this morning (either Laudner or Morris) that 40 games was the time.

 

Pitchers have adjusted to Santana and Vargas. They need some time to try to adjust back.

 

Will they give Hicks and Pinto the same small sample then flip back? That is no way to run an organization or develop players.

 

I did not agree with many decisions this winter or spring. If they believed in the decisions of their baseball people, they have to let it go longer.

 

If the baseball people are incapable of making good decisions, they have more trouble than Hicks or Pinto can fix.

[curt1965]

If the Twins don't recall Hicks and Pinto within a week (at the very latest), they must admit they have punted this year like the last 4. Games in April and May count just as much as those in August and September.

[USAFChief]

Still too early. Suggested on the radio show this morning (either Laudner or Morris) that 40 games was the time.

Pitchers have adjusted to Santana and Vargas. They need some time to try to adjust back.

Will they give Hicks and Pinto the same small sample then flip back? That is no way to run an organization or develop players.

I did not agree with many decisions this winter or spring. If they believed in the decisions of their baseball people, they have to let it go longer.

If the baseball people are incapable of making good decisions, they have more trouble than Hicks or Pinto can fix.

I don't think Pinto is the same situation as Hicks. Pinto got hurt towards the end of spring, that was at least part of the decision process, and he's no longer a concussion worry, so bringing him up would not be the same as bringing Hicks up.

 

Although, IMO, both should be up. Not to mention, Bringing up Hicks would have no impact on either Santana or Vargas.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I bet Vargas is down to single digit plate appearances before he returns to Rochester. There are other guys who can DH who can use those PA.

 

Also, add Oliveros back to the 25 man before he gets bored and frustrated like Meyer did.

[jorgenswest]

I don't think Pinto is the same situation as Hicks. Pinto got hurt towards the end of spring, that was at least part of the decision process, and he's no longer a concussion worry, so bringing him up would not be the same as bringing Hicks up.

Although, IMO, both should be up. Not to mention, Bringing up Hicks would have no impact on either Santana or Vargas.

I certainly argued that the best decision was to roster both of them in the spring. I don't know what their internal plan was for Pinto. I do know they believed Vargas was ready. He didn't make the roster because of Pinto's injury. I know that they believed in Santana as their SS prior to spring training. I know they assessed that Schafer was their best option in CF. If management trusts their baseball people, it is too soon to react and send them down. If management no longer believes in the people making roster decisions, that is the problem.

 

The Twins may have a bigger problem than was fixed by firing Gardenhire. They may have an organization incapable of assessing baseball talent. Time will tell.

[adorduan]

 

Hicks vs RHP: .257/.308/.371 (39 PAs)

vs. LHP: .350/.480/.650 (25 PAs)

This.  Hicks will be brought up and he will fail to hit right handed pitching AGAIN.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Also, add Oliveros back to the 25 man before he gets bored and frustrated like Meyer did.

 

Is that what happened??

[drivlikejehu]

To date, the Twins have fielded their oldest set of position players since 1998 and oldest pitchers since 2003. And the young position players they do have are struggling.

 

The 2011 collapse was a long time ago at this point. I think it's a little bit of an understatement to say that the Twins "may have a bigger problem." They definitely, without question, have a much bigger problem. 

 

It makes no sense for Pinto to be in AAA, but then again, it makes no sense to count on scrubs like Boyer, Schafer, etc. The Twins are a badly led organization that makes poor decisions... it's not any more complicated than that.

[Blake]

Robinson needs to start ahead of Schaefer right now. The catch Robinson made last night was a thing of beauty. Robinson is also hitting. Again, need to go with the hot hand.

 

For better or worse, the Twins are stuck with Hunter.

 

I think Arcia has the chance to be a decent fielder. Not stellar, but decent. Combine that with his bat, things are good.

 

Vargas probably needs to go down. (I think we should nickname Vargas "Jobu") Maybe send Vargas a couple of KFC gift cards? Bring up Pinto in Vargas place.

 

It's too early to make sweeping changes. Vargas, though, isn't a sweeping change. It's a reaction to the obvious: Vargas is lost when it comes to the curveball.

[Kwak]

If there is no trade (say to StL or whoever) and no further DL-injuries, then don't make changes. Play the people you have and force them to work through their problems. This constant advocating of rotating players based on short term results (especially by those would play a team of every prospect ever touted) is nonsense.  Baseball is a long season, there will be ups and downs, accept and work through them. 2015 wasn't projected as anything other than "a building season" anyway--so let's use 2015 to develop players.

[Mike Sixel]

As pointed out.... This team is bad, and old. Mind boggling. Pinto should already be up, and be the primary catcher. Hicks, I have zero confidence in him. But, if they brought him up, I would understand.

[diehardtwinsfan]

No to Hicks. Yes to Pinto/Vargas. At some point I think Santana goes down too in favor of Escobar.

 

I'd also probably swap a couple of relievers in the near future.

[gil4]

 

I know they assessed that Schafer was their best option in CF. If management trusts their baseball people, it is too soon to react and send them down.

 

The baseball people might have said "We're not crazy about the options.  Let's roll the dice with Shafer as a starter, but keep the leash short in case he turns back into the failed prospect."  If they said something other than that and management still trusts them, that would be a problem, because even I knew that the Shafer/Robinson combo involved a lot of crossed fingers.

[Danchat]

I'd prepare to remove Boyer from the 40-man and add Oliveros and send down Vargas and call up Pinto. I'd wait a bit longer for Vargas and Santana to adjust and see if they might start hitting again.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Is that what happened??

you tell me

[Hrbowski]

I just hope that they will do something that will jumpstart this team. Look, I saw the Oakland A's in the end of May, 2012 when they won 94 games, and they were horrible, but they still won the division, and the Rangers were of to a great start, we have hope.

[DocBauer]

The Twins can do 3 things right now to improve the team:

 

- DFA Schafer, recall Hicks as the starting CF.

- Option Vargas, recall Danny Ortiz, (.250/.333/.425, Schafer's 40-man spot) have him and Robinson rotate at LF and have Arcia and Hunter rotate at DH, until you find a taker for Hunter

- Optiona Santana (.203/.203/.237) have Escobar and Nunez as the starting and back up SSs and recall Pinto and have him as the primary catcher with Herrman and Suzuki (.204/.291/.327) backing him up as spelling Mauer at first, until you find a taker for Suzuki.

 

Got to play with the hot hand to win games and the Twins need to start thinking that way.    Levi Michael (.278/.386/.556) should be next in line.

Gotta say, I like and "liked" this as I think the points are smart, viable, and probable. Hard to disagree. But I'm going to slightly if I can. Lol

 

I don't believe I actually wrote it down here, but privately, I've stated I thought Danny Ortiz might actually be the first OF recalled. I don't believe he'll ever be great, but I think he's flown under the radar his entire career and has the ability to be a nice role player in the OF and at the plate for the Twins. There is every reason to believe he will be ready for promotion ahead of Rosario and Buxton, and while I don't know good he actually is in CF, I know he can help there as well as the corners.

 

I expect a lot more from Vargas and have been very disappointed to this point with his start. (As I'm sure he is) It would be easy and logical to promote Pinto at this point. He could DH, catch a little, and possibly free up Herrmann to help elsewhere to PH, play a corner OF spot here and there, etc. (in case you missed it, he hit during ST and has hit thus far this season in SSS) But I don't think it's fair or prudent to send Vargas down this early. Or Santana for that matter.

 

I think there's a huge difference between being patient with a 33 y.o. journeyman with a limited track record, and being patient with a top prospect who showed something last season before getting off to a slow start this year. I'd stick with Vargas and Santana for now. I don't know if 40 games is the answer, or 50, or 60, or what? But I give them a little more time and rope. It's not fair to Pinto, true, but I believe it's where we find ourselves at the moment.

 

I thought Oliveras was given a raw deal coming out of ST. I know he was sick or whatnot early on, but he has velocity, decent stuff and SO ability. Something very few of our current bullpen members can say. And he pitched well last season at Rochester. And after a bad first appearance or two in September, pitched OK down the stretch. IF you were going to cut him this spring, he should have been around long enough to be one of the very last demotions you made. You could bring him up right now, and while I respect and like Fien, I'm not so sure he wouldn't be the best RHRP in the pen from day one.

[DocBauer]

Still too early. Suggested on the radio show this morning (either Laudner or Morris) that 40 games was the time.

Pitchers have adjusted to Santana and Vargas. They need some time to try to adjust back.

Will they give Hicks and Pinto the same small sample then flip back? That is no way to run an organization or develop players.

I did not agree with many decisions this winter or spring. If they believed in the decisions of their baseball people, they have to let it go longer.

If the baseball people are incapable of making good decisions, they have more trouble than Hicks or Pinto can fix.

Absolutely.

 

One thing that has driven me crazy the past couple of seasons, that I had hoped would change this year (jury still out to be sure) is the way certain prospects have been jerked around like a yo-yo.

 

Chris Herrmann: with the club now. Love him or hate him, his milb track record indicates a useful LH bat with some pop and contact at C who can fill in elsewhere. He hit below .258 only once and OB below .350 once until 203 when the Twins bounced him up and down.

 

Hicks: given a long leash, but probably too long for his own good with no fall back.

 

Gibson: didn't show a whole lot in 2013, which was probably expected considering fatigue and rookie status. And while nobody expected him to makes ne rotation in '14, he did, and it was a smart move.

 

May: pitched no worse, and probably better than Gibson in his first go around, but a flu bug early in ST seemed to put him behind the 8 ball right off the bat. Milone has pitched well thus far. But why on earth didn't May get the additional2 starts available before they made their decision? And is he an auto demotion when Nolasco comes back?

 

Tonkin and Oliveros: both have better stuff than any other RH in the pen now. Tonkin hasn't been perfect, but has shown flashes. Oliveros made a really nice return last season from injury. But both were case aside for older veterans from the NL. One with a questionable contract and the other a journeyman roster filler coming off an Ok year.

[DocBauer]

To date, the Twins have fielded their oldest set of position players since 1998 and oldest pitchers since 2003. And the young position players they do have are struggling.

 

The 2011 collapse was a long time ago at this point. I think it's a little bit of an understatement to say that the Twins "may have a bigger problem." They definitely, without question, have a much bigger problem. 

 

It makes no sense for Pinto to be in AAA, but then again, it makes no sense to count on scrubs like Boyer, Schafer, etc. The Twins are a badly led organization that makes poor decisions... it's not any more complicated than that.

Not going to disagree with you. Really not happy and rather baffled by some of the offseason moves...or non moves...as well as how ST seemed to be run and how the roster ended up.

 

However, by all reports and accounts, Molitor is a very good and smart baseball man who relates well to young players and knows the Twins minor leaguers fairly well. Despite some questionable actions and in-actions, Ryan hasn't completely fumbled his moves the past couple of years, and has an outstanding past reputation as a scout, GM and all around good baseball man.

 

I won't excuse all decisions, or defend, but also don't expect anyone to be perfect. But is it possible...and I'm asking as much as I'm offering and debating...that as ST ended, Ryan, Molitor and his coaches sat down and basically said to one another: "guys, we have some good young talent here. And we've got even more, even better, that should be ready and up soon. A couple of these kids were sick here in ST, or battling something, and I/we aren't 100% sure they are 100% ready for opening day. Perhaps we're better off sending some of them down for the first month or so to get in a groove, stick with a couple of these older guys to begin with, and let it sort itself out by about June, or so. We might even get lucky and find a needy and willing trade partner or two. What do you all think?"

 

I know I sure like that better than:"well, until they come up and hit or pitch like all-stars screw 'em"

[DocBauer]

Robinson needs to start ahead of Schaefer right now. The catch Robinson made last night was a thing of beauty. Robinson is also hitting. Again, need to go with the hot hand.

 

For better or worse, the Twins are stuck with Hunter.

 

I think Arcia has the chance to be a decent fielder. Not stellar, but decent. Combine that with his bat, things are good.

 

Vargas probably needs to go down. (I think we should nickname Vargas "Jobu") Maybe send Vargas a couple of KFC gift cards? Bring up Pinto in Vargas place.

 

It's too early to make sweeping changes. Vargas, though, isn't a sweeping change. It's a reaction to the obvious: Vargas is lost when it comes to the curveball.

First off...sorry to correct you...but it should be Cerrano, not Jobu, shouldn't it? Jobu not help to hit curveball, but it was Cerrano who actually swung and missed. My opinion.

 

Arcia has enough talent, that with work, coaching, more experience, and a little azz-kicking from Bruno and Moli, I also believe he can be good to very good offensively, and OK/average defensively. The skill set is there. He showed real progress late last season. The huge mistake was moving him to LF this year. Arcia is the kind of guy, I believe, that is a creature of habit, and needs to be comfortable.

 

As to stuck with Hunter? Yeah, I guess we are. But his defense hasn't been as bad, from what I've seen, as I thought it would be. Or at least, it's been better lately. And his bat has looked a lot better in the #2 spot. If he does nothing but not completely embarrass himself in RF, produce OK in the 2 hole, and provide some fire and leadership....desperately lacking in the Twins roster the past couple of years...and kick each of Arcia's cheeks a couple times each...and I ain't talking the ones on his face...I will be OK with him on the team for this season.

[drivlikejehu]

I'm not sure what point there is in trying to justify the roster they put together for year 5 of an alleged rebuild. It is what it is. The Twins will continue to lose, and fans and ownership can evaluate whether the current approach is worth supporting.