Article: Twins Claim Brooks Raley from Cubs

[old nurse]

I was with you until the bolded statement. In truth, Raley is a

"below-replacement-level" pitcher (BRef WAR -0.9 FRef WAR -0.6). The definition of a wasted roster-filling space if he ends up sticking with the organization.

 

38 IP. hardly a large sample size.

[jokin]

38 IP. hardly a large sample size.

 

Yes. And I made essentially the same point about SSS to the proponents of this acquisition. Regardless, the point I was responding to concerning Raley's potetial even as a replacement player has very little support from Raley's career numbers, both major and minor league, that should have caused anyone to infer and proclaim that he represented a legitimate source of help to the pitching staff, whether as a Loogy, long reliever or Starter.

 

If he works out, great, but taking up a roster spot with his set of credentials will prove to be a waste, IMHO. Even still, the organization got our hopes up that they were in dogged pursuit of filling that roster spot with the likes of a Garza, and failing that, an Arroyo, and failing that, a Suk min-Yoon. Quite a long way down from those 3.

[cmathewson]

I doubt the Twins view him as a starter. As many have pointed out, there are more than a dozen starter candidates this year, and we're just starting to ramp up the influx of good starters from the system, after a longish drought.

 

Let's assume, they got him to be a reliever. It is entirely possible he will be a good lefty specialist based on his .507 OPS against when facing lefties. We don't have access to his minor league splits, but the Twins do. I'm OK with this if he's seen as Thielbar insurance. Thielbar doesn't throw especially hard, but he dominated lefties in 2013. That's a valuable thing to have. It's nice to have two of them.

[Otto von Ballpark]

We don't have access to his minor league splits, but the Twins do.

 

http://minorleaguecentral.com/player?pid=548384&split=3000

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=raley-001bro&type=pgl&year=2013#pitching_splits_milb_pbp::none

[cmathewson]

http://minorleaguecentral.com/player?pid=548384&split=3000

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=raley-001bro&type=pgl&year=2013#pitching_splits_milb_pbp::none

 

Thanks. Looked all over for these, even on BB-ref. Upshot, his splits were still good, but not as good as his mlb splits. Great K rates, though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't understand the fuss. This is the type of moves teams make throughout the year. Pick up a marginal guy, let him throw some ST innings, and put him on waivers afterward. If he clears waivers, great. If not, no big deal. If he pitches out of his mind, put him on the 40 man roster.

 

What's the big deal? Teams often need warm bodies who can throw ST innings or they need guys to fill out a AAA rotation. What makes anyone believe the Twins expect more than that from Raley?

[Linus]

I don't understand the fuss. This is the type of moves teams make throughout the year. Pick up a marginal guy, let him throw some ST innings, and put him on waivers afterward. If he clears waivers, great. If not, no big deal. If he pitches out of his mind, put him on the 40 man roster.

 

What's the big deal? Teams often need warm bodies who can throw ST innings or they need guys to fill out a AAA rotation. What makes anyone believe the Twins expect more than that from Raley?

 

This a thousand times. Teams have to fill rosters for an entire system - many guys are picked up with this in mind. The Twins might view him as somebody who is going to compete with other similar filler for the last spot in the bullpen in Rochester. They can cut him tomorrow if they want. He will not prevent them from making a roster move if they want to - he may never even make it to spring training.

[The Wise One]

I don't understand the fuss. This is the type of moves teams make throughout the year. Pick up a marginal guy, let him throw some ST innings, and put him on waivers afterward. If he clears waivers, great. If not, no big deal. If he pitches out of his mind, put him on the 40 man roster.

 

What's the big deal? Teams often need warm bodies who can throw ST innings or they need guys to fill out a AAA rotation. What makes anyone believe the Twins expect more than that from Raley?

 

It is certainly a mystery why there is a fuss over adding a borderline pitcher while there is a similar fuss over not adding a utility player

[Thrylos]

Hmmm. To me it signals the firing of Anderson. The promotion of Nieto and a player/coach contract to Johan to school this stable of mediocre lefties in the art of the changeup. (Doing my part to get this thread to 5 pages o comments)

 

That would be hard. Nieto was fired a couple off-seasons ago (after the 2011 season). He is no longer with the organization. As a matter of fact he is the manager of the GCL Yankees...

[Paul Pleiss]

I'd like this guy a lot more if his name was Bruce. Brooooooooooooooooose is a lot more fun to say than Brooooooooooooooks. #Analysis

[jokin]

It is certainly a mystery why there is a fuss over adding a borderline pitcher while there is a similar fuss over not adding a utility player

 

Simple. One guy adds proven major league value, the other guy adds, by your own characterization, "borderline" major league potential.

[Rosterman]

As said, he can be waived tomorrow. They saw something and grabbed him. The Twins do need to find people they CAN remove from the 40-man, and as long as a spot is full, why not fill it. Maybe the Twins are still dangling Diamond, Worley and Duensing (and Swarzak) out there. You never know. Any of those would bring a non-40-man prospect more than likely. Is Brooks a better bet than Albers was? Is he a better bullpen guy than Thompson is? Other question is, does he become a minor league free agent if he is waived? Of course, this shows the Twins have an interest in him. Yes, he will be getting a higher salary out of the spring training gate, so to speak.

[The Wise One]

Simple. One guy adds proven major league value, the other guy adds, by your own characterization, "borderline" major league potential.

 

Sigh. add them both, here comes a pennant

[snepp]

Sigh. add them both, here comes a pennant

 

Sigh. Pointless strawman that can only be construed as flamebait.

 

 

It might be time to file this particular tangent under agree to disagree and move on.

[jokin]

I doubt the Twins view him as a starter. As many have pointed out, there are more than a dozen starter candidates this year, and we're just starting to ramp up the influx of good starters from the system, after a longish drought.

 

Let's assume, they got him to be a reliever. It is entirely possible he will be a good lefty specialist based on his .507 OPS against when facing lefties. We don't have access to his minor league splits, but the Twins do. I'm OK with this if he's seen as Thielbar insurance. Thielbar doesn't throw especially hard, but he dominated lefties in 2013. That's a valuable thing to have. It's nice to have two of them.

 

If there truly are a dozen legitimate MLB starting candidates....and I will repeat what no one seems to want to address.....why such the doggedly aggressive offseason pursuit of another proven starter?....Garza?....Arroyo?....Suk min-Yoon?

 

I have no problem with kicking the tires on this guy- and T-Bar insurance is a prudent move, but it sure is a come down if he ends up with a roster spot taken up- and so many other holes to fill- so many more names can end up becoming available in the next month and a half- I hope the Twins are just as willing to pull the trigger and bite the bullet in clearing a roster space, if and when it occurs. And importantly, we still don't even have a guy on the roster from the Left-Hand side that we're sure can dependably pick up the ball every 5th day- Paul Maholm has been available as a Twins get for years, and the Dodgers just picked him up on the cheap, Capuano is still out there.

[cmathewson]

If there truly are a dozen legitimate MLB starting candidates....and I will repeat what no one seems to want to address.....why such the doggedly aggressive offseason pursuit of another proven starter?....Garza?....Arroyo?....Suk min-Yoon?

 

I have no problem with kicking the tires on this guy- and T-Bar insurance is a prudent move, but it sure is a come down if he ends up with a roster spot taken up- and so many other holes to fill- so many more names can end up becoming available in the next month and a half- I hope the Twins are just as willing to pull the trigger and bite the bullet in clearing a roster space, if and when it occurs. And importantly, we still don't even have a guy on the roster from the Left-Hand side that we're sure can dependably pick up the ball every 5th day- Paul Maholm has been available as a Twins get for years, and the Dodgers just picked him up on the cheap, Capuano is still out there.

 

I guess what I meant was, there are a dozen better starting candidates. After that, it's a semantic discussion as to what a "legitimate MLB starting candidate" is. That dozen includes the guys they already signed, of course.

 

As for Capuano, I don't disagree, if your goal is to improve the current roster this year. If your goal is more long term than short term, then, I'm not so sure. I for one want to make sure Gibson and Meyer get MLB opportunities this year. I think both are better than Capuano right now. And I think they have upside, whereas, he does not--regardless of their handedness. BTW, they both are part of that dozen.

 

It's a little like the Bonifacio discussion. Yes, he could help the team maybe win one or two more games this year. But it comes at the expense of guys developing for next year.

[nicksaviking]

I don't understand the fuss. This is the type of moves teams make throughout the year. Pick up a marginal guy, let him throw some ST innings, and put him on waivers afterward. If he clears waivers, great. If not, no big deal. If he pitches out of his mind, put him on the 40 man roster.

 

What's the big deal? Teams often need warm bodies who can throw ST innings or they need guys to fill out a AAA rotation. What makes anyone believe the Twins expect more than that from Raley?

 

The move is a little off-the-wall but not upsetting. I don't have much interest in the guy but I think the consternation from some comes from the roster spot he's taking up. If we assume he will be removed if/when another free agent is signed then no harm, no foul. But that is an assumption at this point.

[Mike Sixel]

The move is a little off-the-wall but not upsetting. I don't have much interest in the guy but I think the consternation from some comes from the roster spot he's taking up. If we assume he will be removed if/when another free agent is signed then no harm, no foul. But that is an assumption at this point.

 

this....as long as they view him as someone dispensible if a better option appears, I don't care (as long as it doesn't push prospects down layers in the org, also).

[beckmt]

Maybe the pickup was incase the Twins get an offer they want to clear some roster space. Duensing + x for a decent prospect or position player that has a chance to help the Twins this year and in the future. You can't make the moves unless the replacements or possible replacements are already in place.

[Mike Sixel]

The most likely, though, is that they picked him because they think he can help somehow. That doesn't require a lot of scenarios.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The move is a little off-the-wall but not upsetting. I don't have much interest in the guy but I think the consternation from some comes from the roster spot he's taking up. If we assume he will be removed if/when another free agent is signed then no harm, no foul. But that is an assumption at this point.

 

The thing is that teams often need warm bodies in March just to throw ST innings. Maybe the Twins see something in Raley, maybe they don't and just need a warm body to take up space for a month of ST.

 

My point is that this move means absolutely nothing until the Twins break north at the end of March. That's when they have to pare down roster sizes and decide who stays and who goes.

[savvyspy]

You can never have enough (LHP) Pitching.

In the case of Brooks Raley, yes you can have enough left handed pitching.

[Jim H]

The Twins do have a fair number of lefties that are AAA-AAAA-fringe major leaguers. Just how they view all of them, I don't know. Some like Thielbar are clearly short relievers/LOOGY, some probably need seasoning like Ibarra. It seemed like Ryan wasn't real excited about letting Albers go to Korea. Maybe he looked for Albers to fill a specific role this year that Raley might be able to do. Like CMath suggested maybe Raley is Thielbar insurance, more likely he might be viewed as a swingman type.

 

Like many have said, I don't get too excited about this kind of pickup. Once in awhile you find a Guerrier, usually you just find out why somebody else put that player on waivers.

[oldguy10]

I guess I do not understand "finding" a Guerrier, Jim H. That assumes he will be effective, doesn't it and I see no reason why he will be, at least any more so than the righty relief pitchers on the active roster now. He may even wind up on the Rochester roster come opening day.

[cmathewson]

I guess I do not understand "finding" a Guerrier, Jim H. That assumes he will be effective, doesn't it and I see no reason why he will be, at least any more so than the righty relief pitchers on the active roster now. He may even wind up on the Rochester roster come opening day.

 

I remember when we first signed Guerrier. Similar reaction. Same with Burton and Fien. But we forget the grays and remember the Fiens. Still, it's an effective way to build a bullpen cheaply.

[oldguy10]

Sure it is cheaply but is it effective where Guerrier is concerned? I believe there may have been better options out there and I'll say the same about Kubel as well. And it appears Santana is next. What is the fascination with bringing back ex Twins? Gate receipts, what? Explain it all to us will you please.

[The Wise One]

Sure it is cheaply but is it effective where Guerrier is concerned? I believe there may have been better options out there and I'll say the same about Kubel as well. And it appears Santana is next. What is the fascination with bringing back ex Twins? Gate receipts, what? Explain it all to us will you please.

 

There may be a few better options than Kubel, but they cost a draft pick. The 2012 Kubel wouldn't be a bad signing . It is a low risk move. As it is, if Kubel is not working out in ST, there is still a likelyhood that one of the FA will still be available to sign.

If they coached up Guerrier once to an effective reliever, what is the harm in trying again. What is the fascination with ripping on a club for doing a low cost option with someone you have worked well with in the past? There is no harm in trying. Perhaps you would like to try to explain the harm in signng a minor league contract for someone you can cut without cost.

[cmathewson]

Sure it is cheaply but is it effective where Guerrier is concerned? I believe there may have been better options out there and I'll say the same about Kubel as well. And it appears Santana is next. What is the fascination with bringing back ex Twins? Gate receipts, what? Explain it all to us will you please.

 

I was speaking of the first time we signed him, after he was DFAd from the Pirates, I believe. Anyway, it was greeted with a collective "meh"' except some thought it a waste of a roster spot. It turned out pretty good. Same with Burton and Fein. Those that have not worked out also didn't cost anything. We don't need his roster spot until the end of Spring. If he fails to impress in the Spring, run him through waivers. If you lose him, no big deal. If he can make it through, free talent.

[johnnydakota]

There may be a few better options than Kubel, but they cost a draft pick. The 2012 Kubel wouldn't be a bad signing . It is a low risk move. As it is, if Kubel is not working out in ST, there is still a likelyhood that one of the FA will still be available to sign.

If they coached up Guerrier once to an effective reliever, what is the harm in trying again. What is the fascination with ripping on a club for doing a low cost option with someone you have worked well with in the past? There is no harm in trying. Perhaps you would like to try to explain the harm in signng a minor league contract for someone you can cut without cost.

 

Because he was the big offensive addition ...Not another minor piece added after a quality fielder or batter had been signed

[Jim H]

The Twins have signed a number of effective relievers off of waivers or as minor league free agents. Guerrier was one and so were Fein and Burton. There have also been a number of not so effective ones as well. I don't have any problem with this proccess and I am not so sure why some do. I don't think it some random thing the Twins do or lets get even with the Cubs for signing our guy.

 

I think one thing the Twins do as well or better than most clubs is scout the minors and majors and pay attention to guys on the margins. I remember with Guerrier the Twins liked his curve, thought he was miscast as a starter and eventually developed or found a good reliever in him. It sure doesn't work every time. Most of the guys the Twins sign through waivers or as minor league free agents are just what they appear to be, marginal guys who are somewhat interchangeable. Which is why I don't get very excited about these kind of signings. But, since the Twins are patient, they pay attention, and work through the system, occasionally they "find" a guy that turns into somebody more than a little useful.