Walker Jenkins

[bean5302]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I thought he re-injured his thumb.

Culpepper is absolutely ice cold since returning.

Like today? He was in Cedar Rapids last I checked. Oh, he was scratched due to soreness. Have to monitor that.

[bean5302]

1 minute ago, mnfireman said:

I don't think anybody would have liked the cost of those trades...

You mean like the 3 PTBNL guys the Cubs tossed at Toronto for Kevin Gausman? Or the nothingburger guys which got Seattle Taylor Ward?

[ashbury]

24 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Tristan Gray has 2 at bats since his call up. He might get a couple more before Buxton returns. Lots of consternation over a few at bats.

Or?  Consternation by Shelton over his lack of options and refusal to play someone unqualified for any meaningful role?

[Dave Borton]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

...

I bet Buxton is fully healthy for less than half the remaining games...

Having had an impinged hip and ultimately hip replacement, I think 1/2 is a high estimate. I can not imagine having to make quick starts and stops with hip issues.

[USAFChief]

45 minutes ago, Primetime82 said:

The loss is going for it vs trading players that would have gotten you value for next year and beyond.

right. Not confusing at all.

 

 

[Danchat]

42 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

He's barely holding his own at AAA right now.

I think that's a bit disingenuous, he's hitting .272 with a .382 OBP, the primary thing he's not doing well at is hitting for power (4 HRs in 228 PAs) but he's nearly walked more than struck out (35 Ks to 31 BBs). If called up now I think he could hit in the style of Keaschall of whom also lacks power.

51 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

he is actually hitting worse than Wallner, Fedko, Sabato,

Methinks we are relying too heavily on OPS and HRs, Sabato is striking out 10% more than Jenkins and walking 4.5% less. 

 

Personally I'm not clamoring for him to be called up, but I do think he'd be an improvement from what they're getting out of Roden. I don't think it'd hurt to give him a couple weeks to see if he can provide the lineup a spark. But methinks the FO is going to wait to put him on the 40 man roster since they don't have to do so until Winter 2027.

[Mike Sixel]

I see the Yankees are calling up a rookie. Only the twins seem unwilling to rely on rookies. They also optioned Volpe to do so, who people here wanted to trade real prospects for 

It's weird how all the other contenders  are willing to try prospects.....

[mnfireman]

51 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

You mean like the 3 PTBNL guys the Cubs tossed at Toronto for Kevin Gausman? Or the nothingburger guys which got Seattle Taylor Ward?

3 PTBNL plus $7.3 MM for Gausman, no matter what Pohlad said, the Twins weren't taking on that much salary for a 35 YO rental SP. 

As far as Ward, his production has fallen off immensely, and he is almost 33. He was a late bloomer to begin with, I do not see him finding his power stroke again, and his defense is falling off, though it has never been great.

I don't think either player helps the Twins this season, even if they gave up as "little" as you say CHC and SEA did. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

1 hour ago, mnfireman said:

Jenkins is not hitting really well at AAA, he is actually hitting worse than Wallner, Fedko, Sabato, and Roden did at AAA (by a lot) and the team shows no confidence in any of them, though Roden is starting to get semi-regular playing time.

I think Jenkins will have a great MLB career, I just don't think he's ready to start it just yet.

Not in the last month plus he isn’t. Since June 1 he is hitting 331/396/545. And he plays good defense. And he runs the bases extremely well 

[ashbury]

24 minutes ago, Danchat said:

the primary thing he's not doing well at is hitting for power (4 HRs in 228 PAs) ....

Methinks we are relying too heavily on OPS and HRs, 

Do you like players who score runs?  In large quantity?  I took a look at this season's major league stats, and when I sort by runs scored I have to scroll down to the #20 guy (Otto Lopez) to find anyone with fewer than 10 home runs, here at the 2/3 mark in the season.

Unless you believe Jenkins will demonstrate better power hitting at the major league level, you stand to be disappointed at his run-scoring production if brought up yet.

A player can score runs, or drive them in.  You probably don't even want to know the result of the same approach if you sort on RBIs.  But I'll tell you anyway - you have to scroll down to #71, the self-same Otto Lopez, to find anyone with fewer than 10 HR.

The beauty part of a HR is that it does both at once.  

I could offer a similar analysis using OPS, based on Walker's current .818 OPS at AAA, but some guesswork would be needed as to what it translates to against major league pitching.  But the end result is the same.  For run scoring, we by no means rely too heavily on OPS and HRs.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

36 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I see the Yankees are calling up a rookie. Only the twins seem unwilling to rely on rookies. They also optioned Volpe to do so, who people here wanted to trade real prospects for 

It's weird how all the other contenders  are willing to try prospects.....

The question is are we truly a contender? There is a risk this year to bringing players up because once they are on the 40 man they can’t come to the facilities or play in the minors if a lockout occurs. So Zoll said they will bring up rookies, so is that Jenkins and Culpepper, or is it Rodriguez if he is healthy and Mendez. My premise is Toms horizon is short so he shouldn’t care about using Jenkins and Culpepper but who knows.  

[mnfireman]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

The question is are we truly a contender? There is a risk this year to bringing players up because once they are on the 40 man they can’t come to the facilities or play in the minors if a lockout occurs. So Zoll said they will bring up rookies, so is that Jenkins and Culpepper, or is it Rodriguez if he is healthy and Mendez. My premise is Toms horizon is short so he shouldn’t care about using Jenkins and Culpepper but who knows.  

The team is a contender today, manage the team as such. If the team falls off over the next couple of weeks, then bring up the AAA kids.

And I agree about being careful about placing guys on the 40-man due to the impending lock-out and possible development delay .  

[stringer bell]

Jenkins is what, 21 years old? He hasn't developed the power that we hope will make him a true five-tool player. That doesn't mean he won't ever develop the power, but he hasn't up to now. Triple A and the Saints specifically provide an imperfect proving ground. We've seen several low-rated or unrated prospects come in and do damage at St. Paul, but when they get their chance with the big club, they are overmatched. I wish I could cite one Triple A stat that translates to big league success, but it seems none correlate that well.

I really don't think Jenkins would help the Twins much in 2026. Whenever the 2027 season starts, it might be a different matter.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

11 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

The team is a contender today, manage the team as such. If the team falls off over the next couple of weeks, then bring up the AAA kids.

And I agree about being careful about placing guys on the 40-man due to the impending lock-out and possible development delay .  

If we are current contenders then why are we at +7000-+8000.   

[tony&rodney]

The Twins slow start in April/May was due in large part to a defense that turned batted balls that are meant to be outs into base hits. The defense is much improved but still in need of further improvement.

Some will not accept that outs need to be converted into outs. For those who do it is easy to see why Wallner, Gonzalez, Mendez, and Sabato remain in AAA. It is also understandable that the two players who will help the Twins are Walker Jenkins and Kaelen Culpepper. My expectation was that they would be up in late July but injuries have pushed that timetable back to mid August. 

A more thorough rebalancing of the roster will need to be accomplished in November/ the offseason.

[Cory Engelhardt]

34 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Do you like players who score runs?  In large quantity?  I took a look at this season's major league stats, and when I sort by runs scored I have to scroll down to the #20 guy (Otto Lopez) to find anyone with fewer than 10 home runs, here at the 2/3 mark in the season.

Unless you believe Jenkins will demonstrate better power hitting at the major league level, you stand to be disappointed at his run-scoring production if brought up yet.

A player can score runs, or drive them in.  You probably don't even want to know the result of the same approach if you sort on RBIs.  But I'll tell you anyway - you have to scroll down to #71, the self-same Otto Lopez, to find anyone with fewer than 10 HR.

The beauty part of a HR is that it does both at once.  

I could offer a similar analysis using OPS, based on Walker's current .818 OPS at AAA, but some guesswork would be needed as to what it translates to against major league pitching.  But the end result is the same.  For run scoring, we by no means rely too heavily on OPS and HRs.

I do think over time as he ages he will get more and more power yes.

And I don't want Wallner in the field defensively again for this team. Even if he has power, his best defensive home is the batter's box alone, and even that feels like it's only about a month a year that that's true.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Do you like players who score runs?  In large quantity?  I took a look at this season's major league stats, and when I sort by runs scored I have to scroll down to the #20 guy (Otto Lopez) to find anyone with fewer than 10 home runs, here at the 2/3 mark in the season.

Unless you believe Jenkins will demonstrate better power hitting at the major league level, you stand to be disappointed at his run-scoring production if brought up yet.

A player can score runs, or drive them in.  You probably don't even want to know the result of the same approach if you sort on RBIs.  But I'll tell you anyway - you have to scroll down to #71, the self-same Otto Lopez, to find anyone with fewer than 10 HR.

The beauty part of a HR is that it does both at once.  

I could offer a similar analysis using OPS, based on Walker's current .818 OPS at AAA, but some guesswork would be needed as to what it translates to against major league pitching.  But the end result is the same.  For run scoring, we by no means rely too heavily on OPS and HRs.

I understand the concept of why HRs are important, I don't need a lecture on it. It doesn't disprove my point that Jenkins' approach at the plate is being undersold, and also how I'd argue his AAA profile suggests he'd fare better at the plate in the majors than Sabato, despite the OPS difference and massive gap in HR hitting.

As some have mentioned, it could take some time for Jenkins' power to develop. How long do we leave him at AAA while we wait for this?

[Cory Engelhardt]

27 minutes ago, Danchat said:

I understand the concept of why HRs are important, I don't need a lecture on it. It doesn't disprove my point that Jenkins' approach at the plate is being undersold, and also how I'd argue his AAA profile suggests he'd fare better at the plate in the majors than Sabato, despite the OPS difference and massive gap in HR hitting.

As some have mentioned, it could take some time for Jenkins' power to develop. How long do we leave him at AAA while we wait for this?

I’m ready for him to be up in the royals series starting tomorrow :)

[Patzky]

9 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Confused?

I can understand not agreeing with the moves they've made. But what's confusing? They've stated clearly they believe they're in contention for the postseason and made moves to strengthen a clearly weak bullpen. They didn't remove anyone from the 26 man. 

Seems pretty straightforward. 

They did exactly what they told us they'd do. Doesn't mean it's a great plan. Kinda reminds me of someone in the White House.

[Patzky]

4 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I’m ready for him to be up in the royals series starting tomorrow :)

There will be some shufflin' going on!

[Patzky]

5 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The Twins slow start in April/May was due in large part to a defense that turned batted balls that are meant to be outs into base hits. The defense is much improved but still in need of further improvement.

Some will not accept that outs need to be converted into outs. For those who do it is easy to see why Wallner, Gonzalez, Mendez, and Sabato remain in AAA. It is also understandable that the two players who will help the Twins are Walker Jenkins and Kaelen Culpepper. My expectation was that they would be up in late July but injuries have pushed that timetable back to mid August. 

A more thorough rebalancing of the roster will need to be accomplished in November/ the offseason.

They will make our pitchers better just as surely as a good catcher will.

[bean5302]

7 hours ago, Danchat said:

I understand the concept of why HRs are important, I don't need a lecture on it. It doesn't disprove my point that Jenkins' approach at the plate is being undersold, and also how I'd argue his AAA profile suggests he'd fare better at the plate in the majors than Sabato, despite the OPS difference and massive gap in HR hitting.

As some have mentioned, it could take some time for Jenkins' power to develop. How long do we leave him at AAA while we wait for this?

Zero days. Jenkins sitting in the minors because his power isn't elite for zero days. He's been a league average AAA hitter for over a month. Every other Tom, Dick and Harry in AAA is just as productive at the plate as Walker Jenkins. Jenkins needs to earn his promotion with production well above league average. Maybe that comes from batting average or walks or limiting strikeouts so he just puts more balls in play? It has to come from somewhere, and right now, he's just another random, no-name, minor league baseball player in terms of his performance.

[Danchat]

54 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Zero days. Jenkins sitting in the minors because his power isn't elite for zero days. He's been a league average AAA hitter for over a month. Every other Tom, Dick and Harry in AAA is just as productive at the plate as Walker Jenkins. Jenkins needs to earn his promotion with production well above league average. Maybe that comes from batting average or walks or limiting strikeouts so he just puts more balls in play? It has to come from somewhere, and right now, he's just another random, no-name, minor league baseball player in terms of his performance.

But that's the thing, since I assume you're using OPS to judge him against the rest of AAA, then the issue is power. He already has a high 13.5% walk rate and fairly low 15% strikeout rate. Compare that to Fedko and Sabato who are striking out 23-24% of the time. I don't know how realistic it is to expect him to draw more walks, his OBP is already over .380.

And to be clear, my original point was that this is better than "barely holding his own", I'm not arguing for him to be promoted ASAP. But his lack of HRs seems to be the only problem here and that is something that might develop over several years, it's not something he needs to hang around in the minors to wait to develop. 

[Danchat]

10 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I see the Yankees are calling up a rookie. Only the twins seem unwilling to rely on rookies. They also optioned Volpe to do so, who people here wanted to trade real prospects for 

It's weird how all the other contenders  are willing to try prospects.....

Not to mention this Yankees top prospect only hit 6 HRs in 262 PAs at AAA, only hitting .845 OPS, and he's 21 just like Jenkins and doesn't need to be added to the 40 man until Winter 2027. Very interesting comparison...

[DJL44]

13 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Not to mention this Yankees top prospect only hit 6 HRs in 262 PAs at AAA, only hitting .845 OPS, and he's 21 just like Jenkins and doesn't need to be added to the 40 man until Winter 2027. Very interesting comparison...

It’s almost like SS and LF have different expectations for offensive production.

If Walker Jenkins could play SS, I would be enthusiastically supporting his promotion.

[mnfireman]

6 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Not to mention this Yankees top prospect only hit 6 HRs in 262 PAs at AAA, only hitting .845 OPS, and he's 21 just like Jenkins and doesn't need to be added to the 40 man until Winter 2027. Very interesting comparison...

The Yankees play baseball in the media capital of the world, have every move loudly criticized by both their fan base and the media (national and local), and didn't address the two biggest issues being loudly discussed by the fans and the media - acquiring a C and getting rid of Volpe/addressing the infield. After the deadline passed they addressed the i field issue and recalled Lombard Jr. How it plays out it is TBD. 

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

But that's the thing, since I assume you're using OPS to judge him against the rest of AAA, then the issue is power. He already has a high 13.5% walk rate and fairly low 15% strikeout rate. Compare that to Fedko and Sabato who are striking out 23-24% of the time. I don't know how realistic it is to expect him to draw more walks, his OBP is already over .380.

And to be clear, my original point was that this is better than "barely holding his own", I'm not arguing for him to be promoted ASAP. But his lack of HRs seems to be the only problem here and that is something that might develop over several years, it's not something he needs to hang around in the minors to wait to develop. 

Then he's a AAA caliber player who will be useless at the MLB level. He either needs to start hitting more line drives to increase his AVG, further reduce his K rate or further increase his walk rate.

If his OPS sucks, his bat sucks. Nobody cares how he gets to a good bat, but he needs to have a good bat.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Zero days. Jenkins sitting in the minors because his power isn't elite for zero days. He's been a league average AAA hitter for over a month. Every other Tom, Dick and Harry in AAA is just as productive at the plate as Walker Jenkins. Jenkins needs to earn his promotion with production well above league average. Maybe that comes from batting average or walks or limiting strikeouts so he just puts more balls in play? It has to come from somewhere, and right now, he's just another random, no-name, minor league baseball player in terms of his performance.

Are you looking at stats or just making presumptions? Because Jenkins has a 15% K rate and 14% BB rate. I'd dare you to find five other players that can top those numbers. That's top end plate approach and those are the two areas that basically hold a player back or ensure a promotion.

I'll be disappointed if the power doesn't come, but he should probably be batting leadoff for the Twins as of about a month ago.

[bean5302]

8 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Are you looking at stats or just making presumptions? Because Jenkins has a 15% K rate and 14% BB rate. I'd dare you to find five other players that can top those numbers. That's top end plate approach and those are the two areas that basically hold a player back or ensure a promotion.

I'll be disappointed if the power doesn't come, but he should probably be batting leadoff for the Twins as of about a month ago.

Just because Walker Jenkins has 1 good component of production doesn't mean his overall production, compared to other players in AAA's International League is actually good.

since July 1, even including his big game yesterday.
.284/.370/.444 OPS .814 wRC+ 111 (a little above league average).

He's not good relative to his peers.

There's a potential argument to be made that pitching is soooooooooo bad in AAA, there's only so much Jenkins can do. He's at his ceiling of production and his production won't drop off much from AAA to MLB because the skills he has directly translate. I would want to see high line drive rates or high average exit velocity or low pop up rates. None of that is true.
Jenkins has a relatively low line drive rate. He has a high pop up rate. He doesn't have impressive exit velocity. He's got very good plate discipline. That's what he's got. That's it. Game power is poor. Batted ball data is poor. 

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Just because Walker Jenkins has 1 good component of production doesn't mean his overall production, compared to other players in AAA's International League is actually good.

since July 1, even including his big game yesterday.
.284/.370/.444 OPS .814 wRC+ 111 (a little above league average).

He's not good relative to his peers.

There's a potential argument to be made that pitching is soooooooooo bad in AAA, there's only so much Jenkins can do. He's at his ceiling of production and his production won't drop off much from AAA to MLB because the skills he has directly translate. I would want to see high line drive rates or high average exit velocity or low pop up rates. None of that is true.
Jenkins has a relatively low line drive rate. He has a high pop up rate. He doesn't have impressive exit velocity. He's got very good plate discipline. That's what he's got. That's it. Game power is poor. Batted ball data is poor. 

He's better than just about every one of his peers. He can and is hitting well, he's working counts at an elite level, he is a good defender, he has speed, he just doesn't have power. 

I want the power too, but that's not all MLB players have power and if you sit on him until it shows up when he's 26 then you're just wasting time.