Be Like MKE: What Can Minnesota Twins Learn from the Mighty Brewers?

[tony&rodney]

Position by position, would anyone choose a Twins over a Brewer?

[NYCTK]

44 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Cumulative WAR is a poor metric for these swaps. Good for both Durbin and Ortiz that they can play enough defense to not be negative contributors a la Julien, but Eddy doesn't look like a MLB caliber player at this point so Idk why that's the bar we're trying to clear. 

If you need to commit 2 roster spots, and 400-500 PAs each to a very light hitting 3B and SS just to eek out 1-2 WAR each that's not an equivalent exchange for a legit Cy Young arm, even with limited team control. 

I don't know what you're talking about. Eeking out 2 WAR from a cost controlled player is a great way to build a competitive team. That's part of the reason the Brewers are contenders and the Twins are not. 

If Brooks Lee was eeking out 2 WAR literally no one would be complaining about him. Matt Wallner had JUST over 2 WAR in back to back seasons and everyone loved him. Not coincidentally, this season as a sub 1.0 WAR player everyone is criticizing him. That 2023 team didn't have any everyday stars, but had 10 position players contribute 1.5+ WAR. 

Filling your roster with valuable players is a great tradeoff for losing a Cy Young caliber pitcher. And Twins fans need to understand this with the likelihood of Lopez or Ryan being traded this offseason. The return isn't going to be an MVP or Cy Young candidate, at least not immediately. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

[TheLeviathan]

40 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I think that depends on your level of commitment to that "something." 

Aren't Durbin and/or Ortiz kinda clones of those roster afterthoughts you're talking about? Speed or defense guys that can't really hit. You can hide them in a lineup during the regular season but against better competition, i.e. the playoffs, they're going to be exposed. 

It depends on a variety of factors.  A team like the Brewers isn't going to be the Dodgers and able to fill all vacancies with high end players.  Think back to 2006....wouldn't  you have taken a 1 WAR player over Rondell White?  If the alternative to Ortiz was a guy who can't hit AND can't field (looking at you Nishioka) then that's a good way to sink an otherwise good team. 

Teams like the Brewers have to win along the edges.  1 WAR vs. -1 WAR at two every day positions adds up.  

Couple that with the fact that those players were added for guys they wouldn't have been able to resign just gives you more options.  When you're a middle to lower market team, that's the game you have to play unfortunately.

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I agree.

One of my frustrations with the Twins of the 2000s was that they would not ever go big at the deadline to get add to the top of the line up or playoff caliber starter. They would make a bench move or add to the bullpen. Would I have that same frustration with the Brewers of the last 7 years? They are in great position this year. They added a second catcher and some injured arms. To @Mike Sixel’s point they are relying on their system instead of adding bench or bullpen pieces with the exception of getting that catcher. I hope this is their year.

Yup, that's the part that you do have to gamble on from time to time.  Take a swing at Cliff Lee.  

The playoffs are still a silly crapshoot, but sometimes it's worth taking a shot.

[chpettit19]

21 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Position by position, would anyone choose a Twins over a Brewer?

I mean I'd take Buxton over anyone on their position player roster, yes. And if we're talking moving forward and not just this year, I'd take Keaschall over Turang at 2B or Vaughn at 1B or Collins in LF. And Lewis over Durbin at 3B (I'll take my chances on the upside). Wallner vs Yelich at DH moving forward is interesting. I'd probably lean Wallner.

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I mean I'd take Buxton over anyone on their position player roster, yes. And if we're talking moving forward and not just this year, I'd take Keaschall over Turang at 2B or Vaughn at 1B or Collins in LF. And Lewis over Durbin at 3B (I'll take my chances on the upside). Wallner vs Yelich at DH moving forward is interesting. I'd probably lean Wallner.

Chourio > Buxton if you're drafting today, even if it's not a keeper league. 

[chpettit19]

Just now, NYCTK said:

Chourio > Buxton if you're drafting today, even if it's not a keeper league. 

I can understand the argument that he will be, but he's not there yet. 118 and 116 wRC+, 119 and 117 OPS+. He doesn't at all have the bat that Buxton has yet. If you want to make the injury argument, that's fine. To each their own. Buxton is unquestionably the better player right now and it isn't even all that close. Can certainly understand an argument for moving forward, though.

[KirbyDome89]

52 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I don't know what you're talking about. Eeking out 2 WAR from a cost controlled player is a great way to build a competitive team. That's part of the reason the Brewers are contenders and the Twins are not. 

If Brooks Lee was eeking out 2 WAR literally no one would be complaining about him. Matt Wallner had JUST over 2 WAR in back to back seasons and everyone loved him. Not coincidentally, this season as a sub 1.0 WAR player everyone is criticizing him. That 2023 team didn't have any everyday stars, but had 10 position players contribute 1.5+ WAR. 

Filling your roster with valuable players is a great tradeoff for losing a Cy Young caliber pitcher. And Twins fans need to understand this with the likelihood of Lopez or Ryan being traded this offseason. The return isn't going to be an MVP or Cy Young candidate, at least not immediately. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

Handing somebody 400-500 PAs for 1-2 WAR that is primarily defensive isn't great value (cost controlled or not) particularly when you're exchanging that for an elite SP. 

Ortiz is literally just a better defensive version of Lee this season but that makes him a building block? Durbin is at the very bottom of qualified 3B offensively. Right next to Royce actually, and there's been plenty of moaning (rightfully so) about Lewis's struggles. 

I don't think there's any misunderstanding about what the return will likely be. The disagreement is whether or not sending out elite talent and subsequently trying to spread that level of production amongst 2 or positions makes you a better team. 

[NYCTK]

10 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Ortiz is literally just a better defensive version of Lee this season but that makes him a building block? Durbin is at the very bottom of qualified 3B offensively. Right next to Royce actually, and there's been plenty of moaning (rightfully so) about Lewis's struggles. 

Yet those two players are valuable on a very good team, and Royce has been decidedly less so on a very bad team. Seems like they are, indeed, good value regardless of how they were brought onto the team. 

A player doesn't need to be a "building block" in order to be valuable or good. In fact, part of the Brewers success is swapping out valuable players for other valuable players, not insisting you can't trade away Corbin Burnes or Devin Williams just because they're really good. Those very good players can't be irreplaceable building blocks. 

The Twins will and SHOULD trade away both Ryan and Lopez, eventually, if not this offseason. 

 

[Major League Ready]

6 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Handing somebody 400-500 PAs for 1-2 WAR that is primarily defensive isn't great value (cost controlled or not) particularly when you're exchanging that for an elite SP. 

Ortiz is literally just a better defensive version of Lee this season but that makes him a building block? Durbin is at the very bottom of qualified 3B offensively. Right next to Royce actually, and there's been plenty of moaning (rightfully so) about Lewis's struggles. 

I don't think there's any misunderstanding about what the return will likely be. The disagreement is whether or not sending out elite talent and subsequently trying to spread that level of production amongst 2 or positions makes you a better team. 

Does KC win the WS if they had not traded Greinke for Cane & Escobar?  The other part of this equation is the player going out generally would have provided 1-1.5 years of production vs 6-7 years of production for the players coming back.  This formula is how Cleveland, Tampa, and the current Brewers team have outperformed other teams outside the top dozen in revenue.  If you look at the players on Milwaukee's roster on pace to produce greater than 1.5 WAR, 47% of the production has been produced by players acquired as prospects or unproven major leaguers.

[thelanges5]

This is a leadership gap. I don’t trust this FO and Owner to operate like the Brewers, Rays etc. 

We may have some of the more athletic pieces in the farm but are they getting developed? Seeing Keaschall gives me hope but this is a league of adjustments. Larnach, Lewis, Julien, Miranda haven’t had much success in the cat and mouse game played by hitters and pitchers. 

I still have some hope but hope is not a plan. What is the plan or team identity?

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

It depends on a variety of factors.  A team like the Brewers isn't going to be the Dodgers and able to fill all vacancies with high end players.  Think back to 2006....wouldn't  you have taken a 1 WAR player over Rondell White?  If the alternative to Ortiz was a guy who can't hit AND can't field (looking at you Nishioka) then that's a good way to sink an otherwise good team. 

Teams like the Brewers have to win along the edges.  1 WAR vs. -1 WAR at two every day positions adds up.  

Couple that with the fact that those players were added for guys they wouldn't have been able to resign just gives you more options.  When you're a middle to lower market team, that's the game you have to play unfortunately.

Of course, but what's the actual floor you're stabilizing right? Sure, Ortiz might not be an abject disaster as a player, but a SS who can't hit and is on pace to post 1 WAR is the type of guy you're looking to move on from. I know he's young and obviously Milwaukee isn't sending him after this season, but barring a pretty significant offensive rebound they won't hang onto him through arbitration. That kinda gets to the crux of things, which is does Milwaukee win because they make these moves, or despite the fact that they make these moves. I'd argue it's primarily the latter. I know everybody wants to be the Rays, or I guess the Brewers now, but unless you're way ahead of the curve both identifying and developing talent, you're more likely to be Pittsburgh. 

I don't there's any disagreement with this part. 

[hitterscount]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Sorry, but the Brewers aren't winning because they are nimble with their roster, they're winning despite being nimble with their roster:

"On the other hand, the contemporary, successful iteration of Milwaukee, led by Arnold (and formerly David Stearns), has been exceptionally active in recent seasons, trading away star players nearing free agency—like Josh Hader, Corbin Burnes, and Devin Williams—for hefty packages. Indirectly, the team got William Contreras by trading Hader. Directly, they acquired the left side of their infield (Caleb Durbin and Joey Ortiz) in trades that gave up Burnes and Williams, and those deals also yielded pitching depth and an extra draft pick."

They traded away Hader, Burnes and Williams and are winning because they flipped them for Durbin and Ortiz? Durbin and Ortiz were prize prospects, but they aren't good pro ball players; at least not at this time. This is not why the Brewers are winning.

If Im not mistaking, Burnes and Hader were deadline trades with expiring contracts. Dumping Williams was a genius move, one I would not expect out of our  FO.

[hitterscount]

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Position by position, would anyone choose a Twins over a Brewer?

Buxton at this point. Still believe when we were healthy we had a slightly better pitching staff. 

For me that is my angst with the trades made at the deadline. The everyday players we received were either not MLB caliber or years away from even potentially helping.

With a solid scouting department you should be able to find players like Milwaukee is fielding that can field, run, and make contact. Oh and throw in a real manager , that wouldn't hurt either.

[chpettit19]

23 minutes ago, hitterscount said:

If Im not mistaking, Burnes and Hader were deadline trades with expiring contracts. Dumping Williams was a genius move, one I would not expect out of our  FO.

You are mistaken. Burnes was an offseason trade and Hader had another season of control left beyond the one he was traded in.

[hitterscount]

39 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Of course, but what's the actual floor you're stabilizing right? Sure, Ortiz might not be an abject disaster as a player, but a SS who can't hit and is on pace to post 1 WAR is the type of guy you're looking to move on from. I know he's young and obviously Milwaukee isn't sending him after this season, but barring a pretty significant offensive rebound they won't hang onto him through arbitration. That kinda gets to the crux of things, which is does Milwaukee win because they make these moves, or despite the fact that they make these moves. I'd argue it's primarily the latter. I know everybody wants to be the Rays, or I guess the Brewers now, but unless you're way ahead of the curve both identifying and developing talent, you're more likely to be Pittsburgh. 

I don't there's any disagreement with this part. 

Ortiz was benched for a week due to his plate approach, not moving runners over with 2 strikes, getting runners on 3rd home with < 2 outs, swinging at first pitch balls.... accountability .

His defense.... Lights out, saves a ton of runs that doesn't show up on stat sheets. I would take Ortiz over Lee in a second.

[KirbyDome89]

11 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Yet those two players are valuable on a very good team, and Royce has been decidedly less so on a very bad team. Seems like they are, indeed, good value regardless of how they were brought onto the team. 

A player doesn't need to be a "building block" in order to be valuable or good. In fact, part of the Brewers success is swapping out valuable players for other valuable players, not insisting you can't trade away Corbin Burnes or Devin Williams just because they're really good. Those very good players can't be irreplaceable building blocks. 

The Twins will and SHOULD trade away both Ryan and Lopez, eventually, if not this offseason. 

 

Their value isn't relative to how their team is performing, which is kinda the point here. We're attributing Milwaukee's winning to them acquiring guys performing like fringe players. 

Giving up elite talent for spare parts isn't a zero sum game. 

It's thinks it's possible, likely even, but I'd stop short of "should." At the risk of running this off course I'll say that Idgaf about the Pohlads lining their pockets, and I know you don't either, but gutting a team you have zero interest in reinvesting in doesn't do it for me. We'll be sold the hope of a rebuild, youth, yada yada, but that's a carrot. The same FO that has struggled with development, now being granted immunity and overseeing a rebuild isn't ideal.  

[KirbyDome89]

7 minutes ago, hitterscount said:

Ortiz was benched for a week due to his plate approach, not moving runners over with 2 strikes, getting runners on 3rd home with < 2 outs, swinging at first pitch balls.... accountability .

His defense.... Lights out, saves a ton of runs that doesn't show up on stat sheets. I would take Ortiz over Lee in a second.

How many Twins fans are satisfied with Brooks Lee over the last two seasons? Why is he the bar the clear here?

[Linus]

I think the difference between teams like the Twins and teams like the Brewers or Rays isnt some secret sauce formula. If we know what they are doing all the teams in baseball know. It comes down to executing a plan based on excellent player evaluation and development combined with sound strategic decisions. Our FO / ownership group isnt in the same league with those other teams. 

[hitterscount]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

You are mistaken. Burnes was an offseason trade and Hader had another season of control left beyond the one he was traded in.

Hader was in the middle of a meltdown, I'm surprised they got anything in return... a sack of potatoes seemed high. . He absolutely sucked , even in SD for a while, usually players don't comeback from that. 

You are correct on Burnes, they made the playoffs that season and Woodruff went down with a shoulder issue right before the playoffs. Burnes lost game one and they were swept at home in a wildcard series. With Woodruff out the entire next season they traded Burnes, thoughyit was a deadline.... My bad.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Of course, but what's the actual floor you're stabilizing right? Sure, Ortiz might not be an abject disaster as a player, but a SS who can't hit and is on pace to post 1 WAR is the type of guy you're looking to move on from. I know he's young and obviously Milwaukee isn't sending him after this season, but barring a pretty significant offensive rebound they won't hang onto him through arbitration. That kinda gets to the crux of things, which is does Milwaukee win because they make these moves, or despite the fact that they make these moves. I'd argue it's primarily the latter. I know everybody wants to be the Rays, or I guess the Brewers now, but unless you're way ahead of the curve both identifying and developing talent, you're more likely to be Pittsburgh. 

I don't there's any disagreement with this part. 

Sure, you're always looking to improve......but having Joey Ortiz on your team stops you from having to sign Nishioka because your farm has no other SS.  Or Kyle Farmer.  Or whomever.

Corbin Burnes wouldn't be on this team.  And even if he was he'd be eating 20% of the salary to be on the injured list.  Instead, Ortiz (who they probably had higher hopes for) at least gave you a floor that wasn't "Sign some dude in FA for 4M and hope to god he's not terrible".  We, as Twins fans, should understand the value of that.

It's also not fair to the argument to focus on Joey Ortiz and then conclude they win despite their moves.  They turned a closer they weren't going to retain into one of the league's best everyday catchers.  That's the kind of net win that is so tremendous you'd have to whiff multiple times to zero out the gain.  Durbin being a positive player is a win for them too.  Their ace is the product of trading renowned baseball star Adam Lind.  So let's maybe take stock of all the moves and not just the ones that help our argument.

No one is asking for the Twins to raze the team to the ground every year....but there are times to realize pivoting and bolstering your future is worth the try.  You never know when that move will align with a Brice Turang, Jackson Churio, Sal Frelick, Quinn Priester call-up festival that unlocks something special.  It's worth a shot if all you can do otherwise is meander your way to .500 and watch them walk for nothing.

I'll point this out too - Milwaukee isn't just about selling off.  They went out and got Contreras.  They went out and got Yelich.  They signed Hoskins.  The Twins need to be willing to sell when it's time to sell, but also buy when it's time to buy. (And you are right of course that ultimately developing internal stars is priority one)

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, hitterscount said:

Hader was in the middle of a meltdown, I'm surprised they got anything in return... a sack of potatoes seemed high. . He absolutely sucked , even in SD for a while, usually players don't comeback from that. 

You are correct on Burnes, they made the playoffs that season and Woodruff went down with a shoulder issue right before the playoffs. Burnes lost game one and they were swept at home in a wildcard series. With Woodruff out the entire next season they traded Burnes, thoughyit was a deadline.... My bad.

I realize now that through text my post could've come across as more serious or aggressive. I was just playing off the structure of your other post and giving you the info on those trades so I hope you didn't take it as anything more than that and I apologize if it came across more aggressively than intended. 

[hitterscount]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I realize now that through text my post could've come across as more serious or aggressive. I was just playing off the structure of your other post and giving you the info on those trades so I hope you didn't take it as anything more than that and I apologize if it came across more aggressively than intended. 

No worries, it's a forum with a lot of disgruntled fans, me being one of the biggest....I may disagree with some opinions, but respect everyone's views. 

[tony&rodney]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I mean I'd take Buxton over anyone on their position player roster, yes. And if we're talking moving forward and not just this year, I'd take Keaschall over Turang at 2B or Vaughn at 1B or Collins in LF. And Lewis over Durbin at 3B (I'll take my chances on the upside). Wallner vs Yelich at DH moving forward is interesting. I'd probably lean Wallner.

Like your optimism. Brew has Chourio who is on IL, ironically, but if Byron goes back to normal (injured) and Chourio plays - better to pick Chourio. Agree that Buxton is superior if healthy.

The others? Keaschall has promise but it is in the future and Turang turns hits into outs now. Lewis? I get the TD fascination but he hasn't done anything besides those precious grand slams. I think he might be a Twins H of F member for fans based solely on that. Wallner gets the decent OPS because he can boom occasionally. He also may have given up more hits this year in the field as he has hit. I'm a fan of athleticism. Guys who can hit, run, execute plays, and play defense are fun for me to watch. The Twins are a struggle to watch. I will acknowledge that Keaschall and Buxton play hard and may lead a change. If you can figure out what Falvey has for ideas, I'm interested to read your thoughts. 

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

Like your optimism. Brew has Chourio who is on IL, ironically, but if Byron goes back to normal (injured) and Chourio plays - better to pick Chourio. Agree that Buxton is superior if healthy.

The others? Keaschall has promise but it is in the future and Turang turns hits into outs now. Lewis? I get the TD fascination but he hasn't done anything besides those precious grand slams. I think he might be a Twins H of F member for fans based solely on that. Wallner gets the decent OPS because he can boom occasionally. He also may have given up more hits this year in the field as he has hit. I'm a fan of athleticism. Guys who can hit, run, execute plays, and play defense are fun for me to watch. The Twins are a struggle to watch. I will acknowledge that Keaschall and Buxton play hard and may lead a change. If you can figure out what Falvey has for ideas, I'm interested to read your thoughts. 

I didn't/don't know your parameters for your question so I gave a wide ranging answer.

Buxton is an easy answer. He's by far the best player on either roster. It's not even close. If you're just talking about right now then there's not even a discussion about Chourio over him, whether Chourio was healthy or not. And you know I like Chourio. Buxton is clearly better than Chourio. If you're talking about future years it can change the conversation.

Setting those parameters would then change the conversations about Keaschall and Lewis as well. Keaschall has more upside, in my opinion, than Turang. And it isn't even close between Lewis and Durbin. You can replace Durbin's glove with any number of guys. That's all he is. A great glove at 3B. He can't touch Lewis' ceiling with the bat. But if you're just talking now, Lewis is struggling so, sure, just take your great glove and average bat and go.

I picked Wallner at DH over Yelich. Yelich doesn't play the field anymore. He's started 13 games in the OF this year, 98 at DH. He's a DH. That's why I put Wallner there, so his defense doesn't matter, because I knew that'd be your response. But that's a moving forward decision as well.

These all come down to now or later. Are you talking trying to win a title in 2025? Then it's Buxton without a question. Are you talking about trying to build a team for sustained success? Then I'm taking Keaschall, Lewis, and Wallner.

As for Falvey's thoughts, I think his thoughts on drafting/developing have changed and he's gone more athletic, but it's going to take some time see those results (and I simply don't trust their ability to develop hitters). I think his MLB team building plans changed after the payroll rug got pulled from under him after 2023 (it's not just about payroll dollars but changes to the payroll after dollars are already dedicated). And I think his MLB team building plans changed again after 2024 when he was put in charge of the business side as one of many cost saving strategies and he was told that his #1 job is to save money, and he's now in a massive gear shifting phase where he has to switch to trying to win on a $110 million budget (which I think we're in relative agreement on). But I agree the Twins don't play a fun brand of baseball to watch. And I wish the entire non-player part of the organization got flushed and reset.

[tony&rodney]

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I didn't/don't know your parameters for your question so I gave a wide ranging answer.

Buxton is an easy answer. He's by far the best player on either roster. It's not even close. If you're just talking about right now then there's not even a discussion about Chourio over him, whether Chourio was healthy or not. And you know I like Chourio. Buxton is clearly better than Chourio. If you're talking about future years it can change the conversation.

Setting those parameters would then change the conversations about Keaschall and Lewis as well. Keaschall has more upside, in my opinion, than Turang. And it isn't even close between Lewis and Durbin. You can replace Durbin's glove with any number of guys. That's all he is. A great glove at 3B. He can't touch Lewis' ceiling with the bat. But if you're just talking now, Lewis is struggling so, sure, just take your great glove and average bat and go.

I picked Wallner at DH over Yelich. Yelich doesn't play the field anymore. He's started 13 games in the OF this year, 98 at DH. He's a DH. That's why I put Wallner there, so his defense doesn't matter, because I knew that'd be your response. But that's a moving forward decision as well.

These all come down to now or later. Are you talking trying to win a title in 2025? Then it's Buxton without a question. Are you talking about trying to build a team for sustained success? Then I'm taking Keaschall, Lewis, and Wallner.

As for Falvey's thoughts, I think his thoughts on drafting/developing have changed and he's gone more athletic, but it's going to take some time see those results (and I simply don't trust their ability to develop hitters). I think his MLB team building plans changed after the payroll rug got pulled from under him after 2023 (it's not just about payroll dollars but changes to the payroll after dollars are already dedicated). And I think his MLB team building plans changed again after 2024 when he was put in charge of the business side as one of many cost saving strategies and he was told that his #1 job is to save money, and he's now in a massive gear shifting phase where he has to switch to trying to win on a $110 million budget (which I think we're in relative agreement on). But I agree the Twins don't play a fun brand of baseball to watch. And I wish the entire non-player part of the organization got flushed and reset.

Now. Yes, it is Buxton. But that's it for 2025. For later, it is still Buxton if he can stay healthy. I really like Keaschall and I would take him for next year over Turang, but I'm taking Turang for now. Wallner and Lewis - no way. I understand that a ton of people like both these guys but neither does anything well on a semi-regular basis to contribute to winning baseball in my opinion. I just don't see them as regulars and I know I could be way wrong on them. Maybe Lewis gets well from whatever is restricting his legs = hope.

Falvey - just not a fan of his work in total. He has had numerous opportunities to make the needed changes and he hasn't been up to the job. Falvey has his fans, especially the Pohlads, so he will be around for awhile. 

[chpettit19]

7 hours ago, tony&amp;rodney said:

Now. Yes, it is Buxton. But that's it for 2025. For later, it is still Buxton if he can stay healthy. I really like Keaschall and I would take him for next year over Turang, but I'm taking Turang for now. Wallner and Lewis - no way. I understand that a ton of people like both these guys but neither does anything well on a semi-regular basis to contribute to winning baseball in my opinion. I just don't see them as regulars and I know I could be way wrong on them. Maybe Lewis gets well from whatever is restricting his legs = hope.

Falvey - just not a fan of his work in total. He has had numerous opportunities to make the needed changes and he hasn't been up to the job. Falvey has his fans, especially the Pohlads, so he will be around for awhile. 

Yeah, I get it on Lewis and Wallner. But I'll take my chances on them.  I'm not trying to build a team around Lewis, I'm just comparing him to a singular 3B in baseball. Caleb Durbin isn't some star. He has no real upside. For just this year? Fine, just take the glove only guy and be happy. But Milwaukee isn't sitting around thinking they have their long-term answer at 3B in Durbin.

And I know people don't like to hear it, but homers win in the playoffs. They simply do. And Wallner hits them. We'll see if Milwaukee can advance this year. They haven't made any noise at all in the playoffs for a while. In large part because they can't slug with their opponents. I'm not interested in regular season wins. I want playoff wins. Wallner helps there. You can't build a team of Wallners, but a Wallner at DH is just fine. 

I wasn't defending Falvey in the sense that I think he should keep his job. I do think he got screwed when they trimmed payroll after 2023. I don't think he knew that was going to happen and simply looking at the 2024 payroll and saying they spent more than other central teams misses a lot of context. Cutting payroll after signing Correa and Lopez is brutal to team building. But overall, no, Falvey isn't good enough and needs to go. But won't. I'd be quite shocked to see them fire the guy they just put in charge of their entire organization. 

[Doctor Gast]

18 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I've never heard the TWins cry they don't have money to spend. Not once from the team. I agree with a lot of the rest of this post.

True, it doesn't make sense to publicly complain about your boss. What you publicly can't say directly, you say indirectly via social media minions; all agents & FOs have them.

[TheLeviathan]

If we're deciding who you'd take off the rosters and combine the right now/going forward it's a pretty clear line for me:

1. Buxton (but the injury things don't make this the landslide I've seen stated here)

2. Churio

3. Contreras - He's a 27 year old catcher who can hit.  

4 . Keaschall/Turang  To me this is pretty close to a tie, Keaschall has more upside but Turang's jack-of-all-trades game has been great this year.

5. A bunch of Brewers.  I haven't given up on Wallner, but he's 27.  Collins, Frelick, Yelich, Durbin are all better than their Twins counterparts right now.  I get the upside argument on Lewis....but that Lewis may be dead to us now.  Wallner probably mixes in somewhere here, but of the next 6 or 7 guys....he's the only Twin I'm taking.  I'll happily field the rest of my team as Brewers.

[Killer Rod Tony]

On 8/14/2025 at 9:38 AM, Trov said:

I think one of the main thing to take from the trades mentioned is they were proven guys that were about to get expensive and they got rid of 2 very good pen guys and a very good to great starter.  Our FO made a trade of a few very good pen guys, one with a lot of control still, and fans are super upset.  If we trade Ryan or Lopez this offseason fans will be more upset.  

However, what Brew Crew this year, and Rays in the past have shown is not investing big in single players can actually help if you can flip those guys for more prospects that you hope a few will work out and raise the floor of our team.  

For example, we are hoping huge things on Jenkins right now, but he could become not very good, we see it happen all the time for top prospects.  If we have no other options down the road we get a huge set back.  Fans were upset when we kept drafting SS, well you need plenty of options. 

I think the Twins should adopt more of the type of strategy from the Brew Crew too, Have guys that can get on base, run the bases, and not just look to go yard 1-9. 

Again anybody how to become a member to do replies here. I have an email l r j o h n s o n 1952 30@yahoo.com. speaking to one tiny part what teams need is relief pitchers like Louie with 5 years of control. How many outfielders does this team have? Yes it would be nice if they all did 30 home runs and 100 runs batted in and I don't think the person they acquired is going to do that. Trying to remember the guy's name saw him pitch during the rains away Kendry? All his pictures cross the plate like they're all fastballs he's getting beat up and he has no movement he looks big and tall and great on the mound it's not going to make it. The ultimate goal we had with Louie and to see a professional GM full of a trick like that just horrible thinking. A twins fan since 1964 here I don't usually talk down. Salaries are we all crazy we're talking super millions of dollars even at 48 million do any of us make 25% of that? Why should a person playing a ball game realize money like that keeping the fans having to take over the prices to see a game. The New York Yankees have a ticket for $5,000 one game. These boys are not God's ladies and gentlemen. All teams should decrease their ticket prices by 90%, so people with small money can actually see a game and you might sell ice a place all the time and the players that make $10 million dollars will easily play for 1 million. Boycott the game like I do now all teams until things can become reasonable. Players move from Team to team constantly because of money that's so unnecessary to waste.