Could 2025 Twins Execute a 2018-Style MLB Trade Deadline Re-Tool?

[TwinsDr2021]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's very hard for a college player to be in their third year in the league at 24...... Especially if they are mid round picks. I think we should celebrate they are getting value from mid to late round picks. Ymmv, of course. I'm just not giving up on guys that haven't even been in the league for a year. 

That is a different argument then comparing them to guys that struggled in their earlier 20's went on to become stars at the age these guys are. Obviously it is great to get guys in the mid rounds round to give the major league club value I don't think you can argue that. I am not giving up on these guys either, but comparing them to guys he did is flat out lazy. I mean Ryan, Ober and Gibson all came up at age 25, and really only Gibson struggled as mightily as these guys have, him and others have improved after that, and those are types these guys should be compared (SWR is slightly different) Cleveland has been bringing up guys around the same age, Logan Allen, Cal Quantill, Aaron Civale, Eli Morgan and others, History shows generally those type of pitchers aren't the guys you can rely on for multiple years. The Twins have gotten good years out of Ryan and Ober but for the most part they hit the ground running. 

My point is if you are going to compare players, do a bit of research and compare them to actual similar players. (Maybe compare them to Cory Kluber, up at 25 struggled and went on to be pretty darn good if you want to enhance your thinking of the player)

[TwinsDr2021]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He could be, but that means one of Lewis, CC, or Keaschell, and maybe Lee too, are gone. To be a regular less than two years in baseball is not common, but not unheard of. Which of those do you expect him to replace next year as a regular?

I would make one a first baseman likely Keaschell or Lewis, put Culpepper at 3rd, and Lee at 2nd. Lewis can be DH, and spell Culpepper and Keaschell. 

Or you make Lee the backup player for all three at 3B, SS and 2B, putting Culpepper at 3rd, Keashall at 2B, and Lewis at 1B. 

I would have Culpepper up in July before Keaschell and Lewis are back to get his feet wet, if he starts off like Holiday looking completely over matched send him back down and see how he responds. I don't have much faith in Lewis staying healthy. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I would make one a first baseman likely Keaschell or Lewis, put Culpepper at 3rd, and Lee at 2nd. Lewis can be DH, and spell Culpepper and Keaschell. 

Or you make Lee the backup player for all three at 3B, SS and 2B, putting Culpepper at 3rd, Keashall at 2B, and Lewis at 1B. 

I would have Culpepper up in July before Keaschell and Lewis are back to get his feet wet, if he starts off like Holiday looking completely over matched send him back down and see how he responds. I don't have much faith in Lewis staying healthy. 

 

I could live with that plan. 

[Wedman13]

41 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

ummm, because history tells us pretty accurately how good a player is going to be based on when they first see the majors. Is it 100%, no for sure not. But the list of players that come up after age 24 and succeed (for multiple years) in a full time/starter type player is a heck of a lot shorter than those that come up earlier. Looks at the names I mentioned that are better comparisons for a few example. You and others might not like using age as a stat to predict how players careers will most likely end up but it isn't any different than any other stat that is used in the game today. I mean why do teams shift? 

Should it be strange that Castro is a pretty good player? I mean the Detroit thought he was going to be pretty good he was up at age 22, yes it took him a couple of years to figure out, but since he was up early he was given the chance and was an all star at age 27, christ half of the Twins players they are still trying to figure out is his age or close to it. 

I mean I keep hearing any player in the Twins minor league that is 22 is a couple of years away. 

Castro is basically the same age as Larnach and Wallner yet we give L&W all the time in the world to figure it out.  So yes, age matters.  If Wallner wasn't 'one of us' he would be seen as a poor man's joey Gallo.

I would be interesting to see the ages of Hrbek, Puckett, Gagne, Gaetti, Brunansky and others from that era when they made their debut.  Pretty sure they cut their teeth at Majors, not AA.  L&W have had their time to prove themselves.... let's move on

[OvertheHill]

4 minutes ago, Wedman13 said:

Castro is basically the same age as Larnach and Wallner yet we give L&W all the time in the world to figure it out.  So yes, age matters.  If Wallner wasn't 'one of us' he would be seen as a poor man's joey Gallo.

I would be interesting to see the ages of Hrbek, Puckett, Gagne, Gaetti, Brunansky and others from that era when they made their debut.  Pretty sure they cut their teeth at Majors, not AA.  L&W have had their time to prove themselves.... let's move on

I’ve been waiting for someone to compare Wallner to Joey Gallo. I wish it weren’t true but he’s starting to look that way. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

53 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

ummm, because history tells us pretty accurately how good a player is going to be based on when they first see the majors. Is it 100%, no for sure not. But the list of players that come up after age 24 and succeed (for multiple years) in a full time/starter type player is a heck of a lot shorter than those that come up earlier. Looks at the names I mentioned that are better comparisons for a few example. You and others might not like using age as a stat to predict how players careers will most likely end up but it isn't any different than any other stat that is used in the game today. I mean why do teams shift? 

Should it be strange that Castro is a pretty good player? I mean the Detroit thought he was going to be pretty good he was up at age 22, yes it took him a couple of years to figure out, but since he was up early he was given the chance and was an all star at age 27, christ half of the Twins players they are still trying to figure out is his age or close to it. 

I mean I keep hearing any player in the Twins minor league that is 22 is a couple of years away. 

Castro, I believe, was DFA'd before the Twins got him.  That's not a glowing recommendation for bringing him up early either.  

IF the player is ready at a younger age, of course that bears for greater success because as they hit their prime they will be even better, but you can't will them to be successful just by putting them there. 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

32 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

but comparing them to guys he did is flat out lazy.

Keep it classy!  

[karcherd]

Everyone assumes Falvey is gone under new ownership, but are we sure.  Joe gave him control of both the business operations and the baseball side of the house.  Will a new owner really want to replace both of those key positions.  And I don't see Falvey wanting to be the next Dave St. Peter.  

I am worried that Falvey will be moved back to focus on the baseball side and we will continue to see the same lack of development of players, strict adherence to poor strategies and boring baseball.

[shimrod]

6 hours ago, RpR said:

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

What contender is looking to add Carlos Correa for the stretch run? Maybe the Yankees would want him at 3B so they could move Chisholm to 2B. That's about the only fit I can find.

And turn the SS position into a black whole.

The Twins have NO ONE to replace his glove, not even to small degree.

Dumping the Correa salary commitment will be a negative on the field. However, this team isn't going anywhere anyway. It would free up money for other positions. As long as ownership doesn't pocket the entire amount (no sure thing) the Twins will have a few more resources to work with. 

Correa is unable to carry this team and ownership is unwilling to spend to add around him. This wouldn't matter if the prospects could play but it's becoming apparent the same organizational philosophy that built this roster is failing to develop the young talent. Fringe pickups like Bader and France are better than any of the highly drafted players "developed" in the Twins minor leagues. 

Correa is like the Ferrari a guy clings to after he's lost his job and been thrown out by his wife. Expensive, frequently in the shop, but still a last grasp at relevance after everything else has gone to sh*t. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

Castro is basically the same age as Larnach and Wallner yet we give L&W all the time in the world to figure it out.  So yes, age matters.  If Wallner wasn't 'one of us' he would be seen as a poor man's joey Gallo.

I would be interesting to see the ages of Hrbek, Puckett, Gagne, Gaetti, Brunansky and others from that era when they made their debut.  Pretty sure they cut their teeth at Majors, not AA.  L&W have had their time to prove themselves.... let's move on

Wallner has been forty percent better than league average over his career. He's a very good to great hitter. 

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, OvertheHill said:

I’ve been waiting for someone to compare Wallner to Joey Gallo. I wish it weren’t true but he’s starting to look that way. 

Not even close. 

[RpR]

31 minutes ago, shimrod said:

Dumping the Correa salary commitment will be a negative on the field. However, this team isn't going anywhere anyway. It would free up money for other positions. As long as ownership doesn't pocket the entire amount (no sure thing) the Twins will have a few more resources to work with. 

Correa is unable to carry this team and ownership is unwilling to spend to add around him. This wouldn't matter if the prospects could play but it's becoming apparent the same organizational philosophy that built this roster is failing to develop the young talent. Fringe pickups like Bader and France are better than any of the highly drafted players "developed" in the Twins minor leagues. 

Correa is like the Ferrari a guy clings to after he's lost his job and been thrown out by his wife. Expensive, frequently in the shop, but still a last grasp at relevance after everything else has gone to sh*t. 

What "other" positions?

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, karcherd said:

Everyone assumes Falvey is gone under new ownership, but are we sure.  Joe gave him control of both the business operations and the baseball side of the house.  Will a new owner really want to replace both of those key positions.  And I don't see Falvey wanting to be the next Dave St. Peter.  

I am worried that Falvey will be moved back to focus on the baseball side and we will continue to see the same lack of development of players, strict adherence to poor strategies and boring baseball.

Speaking just from my experience in the corporate world. When a company I worked at was merging with another company, they elevated a C level executive to oversee the transition, then left 3-6 months after the transition was complete. That’s likely what Falvey signed up for and will be compensated handsomely for it. 

[Mike Sixel]

32 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Speaking just from my experience in the corporate world. When a company I worked at was merging with another company, they elevated a C level executive to oversee the transition, then left 3-6 months after the transition was complete. That’s likely what Falvey signed up for and will be compensated handsomely for it. 

That was my theory also.

[RpR]

6 hours ago, OvertheHill said:

I’ve been waiting for someone to compare Wallner to Joey Gallo. I wish it weren’t true but he’s starting to look that way. 

Gallo had a good glove, it would be OK if Wallner had Gallo's glove.

[RpR]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Wallner has been .

That says it.

[mluebker]

Deal them all, fill the gaps with Saints, and hunker down until the Pohlads sell the team. At this point, the results wouldn’t be too much different and we could cheer them on as they race the White Sox to the bottom.

[RpR]

18 minutes ago, mluebker said:

Deal them all, fill the gaps with Saints, and hunker down until the Pohlads sell the team. At this point, the results wouldn’t be too much different and we could cheer them on as they race the White Sox to the bottom.

Why?  🤮

Do you want them to set a new record of the most losses in a season ever since 1962?

Of course they would beat the White Sox that way.

[TwinsDr2021]

14 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

I would be interesting to see the ages of Hrbek, Puckett, Gagne, Gaetti, Brunansky and others from that era when they made their debut

Gagne was up for 10 games at 21, 2, at 22 and basically full time at age 23. Kirby was up and fulltime at age 24. Hrbek up for 24 games at 21, 2nd ROY at 22. Gaeti up for 26 at 22 fulltime at 23. Bruno up for 11 games at age 20, 5.6 WAR at age 21. 

 

 

 

[TwinsDr2021]

15 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Keep it classy!  

I didn't call you lazy, I called the comparison lazy and it was. You threw three Twins legends out there to compare to these pitchers to and those three and these three have nothing in common besides being Twins pitchers. You want these guys to succeed (as do I) and this comparison makes you feel better about it. Because the real comparisons of middle round college that debut around this time and struggle and succeed as starters is a harder comparison to find, because guys like Jax and Sands come to mind. 

That would be like me saying my son has the chance to to be the next JJ Watt, because they both didn't start as freshman on the football team and struggled a bit as sophomores and not telling you my son is 4 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter

[TwinsDr2021]

12 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not even close. 

Gallo at age 25 had an OPS+ of 145, played in 70 games with 22 homers and hit .253, at age 27 he had an OPS of 138, played 153 games with 38 homers. He was a two time All star, two time gold glove winner, Career WAR of 15.6 with 208 homers. After age 27 is wasn't great but was still better than average. (I am not a fan of Gallo's game) but Wallner has a way too go to even be considered in Gallo's league as a player, and Gallo's splits were pretty even against righties and lefties. Maybe some one year Wallner will play over 100 games and we can really see what he had. 

[Major League Ready]

20 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

They are glorified rookies.  VERY few pitchers come up and dominate.  Viola didn’t.  Radke didn’t.  Not even Santana.  They need developmental time, and so far, their early achievements mirror those of other good pitchers.  Might they become disappointments?  Sure, but it’s too early to decide that.  

How about Berrios?  He was not at all effective.

[mluebker]

9 hours ago, RpR said:

Why?  🤮

Do you want them to set a new record of the most losses in a season ever since 1962?

Of course they would beat the White Sox that way.

Why not?

Clear the decks and get ready for the future. Give the prospects a chance to face major league competition and find out who’s really able to play at that level every day. At the very least, they’d play like they have something to prove.

And meanwhile, get something tangible for the future in return for guys who are playing well and have some value now. Things change fast for players. If the Twins wait too long, their value is more likely to decline than rise.

[TwinsDr2021]

16 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Castro, I believe, was DFA'd before the Twins got him.  That's not a glowing recommendation for bringing him up early either.  

IF the player is ready at a younger age, of course that bears for greater success because as they hit their prime they will be even better, but you can't will them to be successful just by putting them there. 

Castro was brought up at age 22, was 4th in the ROY at age 23, dipped at age 24 and was better again at age 25. He was Arb eligible and the Detroit realized at 1.7 million (Arb number) he wasn't anything more than a utility type player and rebuilding teams don't or shouldn't spend money on guys like so they didn't retain him. 

It was obvious he had skills based on what he did ages 22 - 25 and contending teams can spend money on utility/back up players because they are competing for the post season. 

I don't think what you are saying about him coming up early is what you think it is. By age 25 he was kind of done with his struggles and was hitting his stride going into his prime years. Most of the Twins his age haven't figured it out and are struggling and nobody know if they are full time players or back up/utility/platoon players all while being in their prime years. There are exceptions of course like Rooker or Merrifield (up at age 27, never really struggled but was also pretty much done at age 32 as a good full time player)

 

[Rod Carews Birthday]

2 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I didn't call you lazy, I called the comparison lazy and it was. You threw three Twins legends out there to compare to these pitchers to and those three and these three have nothing in common besides being Twins pitchers. You want these guys to succeed (as do I) and this comparison makes you feel better about it. Because the real comparisons of middle round college that debut around this time and struggle and succeed as starters is a harder comparison to find, because guys like Jax and Sands come to mind. 

That would be like me saying my son has the chance to to be the next JJ Watt, because they both didn't start as freshman on the football team and struggled a bit as sophomores and not telling you my son is 4 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter

Perhaps I didn’t convey the nuances of this very clearly.  I didn’t make that comparison because I thought that Festa and/or Matthews were destined to become Twins legends like Viola, Radke, and Santana.  I made it to make the point that the first couple of years in the majors are difficult for nearly all players — pitchers in particular.   Since Viola, Radke, and Santana also struggled initially, it should also help to dispel the notion that a lack of instant success dooms Festa, Matthew’s, et al. to failure.  

You chose to make this about chronological age, which is not a concept without merit, but that was not my argument.  Judging from your post, it seems like you are maybe 75-25% that age is the determining factor.  I am probably 75-25% the other direction.  Obviously, we come at this from different directions, and that’s OK for both of us.  

For the record, I wish your son the best in his football pursuits, but it seems likely that he has less in common with JJ Watt than any current Twins pitcher has with a former Twins pitcher.  I don’t think these guys are about to become legends, but completely writing them off because of their age doesn’t really work for me.  YMMV.

[TheLeviathan]

On 6/23/2025 at 6:56 AM, chpettit19 said:

I agree with the premise and have suggested essentially the same thing in recent days. But it's a weird situation because the front office shouldn't be allowed to run the rebuild/retool/re-whatever you want to call it. 

Assuming there's no more double-digit win streaks and they're roughly around or below .500 at the deadline, my hope is they sell guys in the last year of team control. Get what you can for Castro, France, Bader, and Paddack. But save anyone with more control than that for the offseason for a new regime. That's my hope, not my prediction. 

My prediction is they don't do anything of note at the deadline. There isn't a new regime after the season unless there's new ownership. And the run of our best hope being slightly above mediocre continues.

Rationally speaking I think this is the correct answer.  However.....

What's one thing we can guarantee on the same level as the sun rising, death, and taxes?  Cheap ass Pohlads.  Saving money is paramount to them.  It's the one thing giving me hope that we might sell.

Dealing Castro, France, Bader, Paddack, Columbe, Vazquez, and floating Correa gives them money in their pockets.  Perhaps that is motivation enough to do more than the usual.

[TwinsDr2021]

11 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

but completely writing them off because of their age doesn’t really work for me.  

I am not writing them off at all, I believe they can become viable major league starters maybe even a Mike Clevinger type pitcher, I am tempering my expectations of them because of age and minor and major league performance and the history of similar players. 

[NYCTK]

22 hours ago, KillerBrew said:

team with a rich history.

That means diddly squat. The Athletics have way more history than the Twins, winning 4 WS in Oakland. But, on the other hand, part of that history is their constant movement, now in their 4th city, going on 5. 

[NYCTK]

22 hours ago, DJL44 said:

What contender is looking to add Carlos Correa for the stretch run? Maybe the Yankees would want him at 3B so they could move Chisholm to 2B. That's about the only fit I can find.

Actually, the Tigers could use assistance on the left side of the infield if they wanted to really go for it. 

[NYCTK]

18 hours ago, OvertheHill said:

I’ve been waiting for someone to compare Wallner to Joey Gallo. I wish it weren’t true but he’s starting to look that way. 

Completely unfair to Gallo. He was a decent center fielder in his prime. Wallner is one of the worst outfielders in all of baseball in his.