Braves 6, Twins 4: Keaschall Impresses in Debut, Jax Implodes in Eighth

[Patzky]

2 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Agree with all the comments about Jax. He was the last guy on the staff I figured for this horrible start.

Brock Stewart has been recalled.

[1985Fan]

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

It was Big Time disappointing Friday night! Jax needs to lock down the 8th.

That said, I do not know how you or anyone can say that some eye test would suggest that Griffin Jax doesn’t have elite stuff? He’s electric, when right. His change-up moves left to right at 91-92…….his sweeper can make RH hitters looks foolish routinely……his fastball is typically at 97MPH. His location/command can drift but his stuff is fantastic.

He walked 2 guys - gave up a sharp single - gave up an infield hit that easily could have been played differently into an easy out. That’s it for Friday. His performances lately have had brutal outcomes, no doubt. His stuff is still excellent but he’s struggling with command. It’s unacceptable. He’s still very talented with a bunch of probable upside.

72 innings in ‘24 and a 2.03 ERA……..not sure what you saw last year that suggested he was going to be of some small value to the Twins going forward? 65 innings - 3.36 ERA & 71 innings - 3.86 ERA in two previous years ……200 plus innings over 3 seasons of pretty good results.

The eye test would tell the manager that Jax’s recent past blown outings are who Jax is at this point of the season. He’s not pitching like last year’s stats. Rocco cant understand what any casual fan can see; Jax doesn’t have it right now. It’s simple, Rocco could adjust the BP order so Jax is not pitching high leverage innings until he shows his stuff is back on track. But Rocco sticks to his rigid game plan and Jax keeps blowing it. 

 

[wabene]

Dang if Jax had been perfect, we'd likely be 10-10. Didn't he go through a similar rough patch last year? Or I'm guessing every year. Griff's work ethic and track record suggest he'll bounce back. I'd wager we won't have to wait long.

[wabene]

Keashall is fun to watch and an energy boost this squad could use. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

I understand Jax is the main focus here, but are we going to talk about how Sands allowed the Braves to make the death blow by allowing two hits right after he came in? The game was salvageable if he could have held there.

I agree, though it might be time to bump him back to the 7th inning or lower leverage situations. I don't think it's time to treat him like Colome or Pagan yet but we could be getting there.

After yesterday?  Yes.  Before that?  Too soon IMO.

[twinstalker]

EmRod could have hit 3 HRs, and it wouldn't have been as impressive as Keaschall was last night.  What we saw was a player who's really not going to get figured out in the long run.  He still has a learning curve against better pitching than Elder, but I doubt he'll struggle too much.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

The eye test would tell the manager that Jax’s recent past blown outings are who Jax is at this point of the season. He’s not pitching like last year’s stats. Rocco cant understand what any casual fan can see; Jax doesn’t have it right now. It’s simple, Rocco could adjust the BP order so Jax is not pitching high leverage innings until he shows his stuff is back on track. But Rocco sticks to his rigid game plan and Jax keeps blowing it. 

 

4-1 is high leverage? This is ridiculous on so many levels. So, no, this isn't about him not seeing what any fan can see, since numerous fans here disagree  with you

[Patzky]

3 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

The eye test would tell the manager that Jax’s recent past blown outings are who Jax is at this point of the season. He’s not pitching like last year’s stats. Rocco cant understand what any casual fan can see; Jax doesn’t have it right now. It’s simple, Rocco could adjust the BP order so Jax is not pitching high leverage innings until he shows his stuff is back on track. But Rocco sticks to his rigid game plan and Jax keeps blowing it. 

 

Eh France isn't Santana on D either. I don't know if it's all the pitches. Tis also what happens when they're hit.

[Blyleven2011]

4 hours ago, Patzky said:

Brock Stewart has been recalled.

Guess we know who is pitching the 8th inning tonight  ...

[Patzky]

4 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Guess we know who is pitching the 8th inning tonight  ...

If it's him that's a good sign.

 

If it's Alcala or Willi..

[Blyleven2011]

Just now, Patzky said:

If it's him that's a good sign.

 

If it's Alcala or Willi..

We're in trouble if it's Alcala or willi , i was thinking positive when i stated Stewartfor the eighth ...

Funderburk optioned down to AAA  ...

[Patzky]

3 minutes ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Funderburk optioned down to AAA  ...

This doesn't trouble me.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I have to admit that I don't have the gift to evaluate pitching, so I can't say that I've seen what you have seen. But I agree with you in many cases that your eye needs to be trusted more than stats. Something seems to  be wrong with Jax & good teams are capitalizing on it.

Amazing that you got a thumbs down on this rather innocuous comment. Haters gotta hate.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, Verified Member said:

Amazing that you got a thumbs down on this rather innocuous comment. Haters gotta hate.

 

 

 

 

It's not innocuous to say trust your eye over results, stats, over and over.  Calling someone a hater for disagreeing on the value of stats?

[knothole61]

9 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

It was Big Time disappointing Friday night! Jax needs to lock down the 8th.

That said, I do not know how you or anyone can say that some eye test would suggest that Griffin Jax doesn’t have elite stuff? He’s electric, when right. His change-up moves left to right at 91-92…….his sweeper can make RH hitters looks foolish routinely……his fastball is typically at 97MPH. His location/command can drift but his stuff is fantastic.

He walked 2 guys - gave up a sharp single - gave up an infield hit that easily could have been played differently into an easy out. That’s it for Friday. His performances lately have had brutal outcomes, no doubt. His stuff is still excellent but he’s struggling with command. It’s unacceptable. He’s still very talented with a bunch of probable upside.

72 innings in ‘24 and a 2.03 ERA……..not sure what you saw last year that suggested he was going to be of some small value to the Twins going forward? 65 innings - 3.36 ERA & 71 innings - 3.86 ERA in two previous years ……200 plus innings over 3 seasons of pretty good results.

JD, remember what Mike Zimmer famously said to a reporter who seemed naively mystified after an embarrassing loss "Did you watch the game?" Well, allow me to respectfully ask you: did you watch the game last night, or on Wednesday night, or most any time that this "shut down" reliever with such great stats and stuff has pitched this year? I know that Jax has had some success in the past, but what I'm saying is that he's hit a wall now; that I'm not surprised; and that he will probably never be what he once was, and what we all want him to be.

Okay, you've got your stats and I have my intuition...let's let it play out and see who is correct. You with your facts and me with my thoughts is kind of like the battle between John Henry and the machine, but I still like my odds, although I am pulling for you. 

[1985Fan]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

4-1 is high leverage? This is ridiculous on so many levels. So, no, this isn't about him not seeing what any fan can see, since numerous fans here disagree  with you

A little emotional?! Yes, 4-1 in the 8th inning is high leverage. Switch spots with Varland. If you have seen Jax last three or so appearances, you would have to admit he is struggling. Even the Apple TV announcers had to point that out, so it is obvious to all except for you and Rocco. So far this year he’s pitched 8 innings, given up 14 hits and 11 runs. He’s been charged with 2 losses and 2 blown saves. I think that’s enough information to say he’s struggling and Rocco should put him in low leverage spots until he shows he isn’t going to implode. 

[chpettit19]

25 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

A little emotional?! Yes, 4-1 in the 8th inning is high leverage. Switch spots with Varland. If you have seen Jax last three or so appearances, you would have to admit he is struggling. Even the Apple TV announcers had to point that out, so it is obvious to all except for you and Rocco. So far this year he’s pitched 8 innings, given up 14 hits and 11 runs. He’s been charged with 2 losses and 2 blown saves. I think that’s enough information to say he’s struggling and Rocco should put him in low leverage spots until he shows he isn’t going to implode. 

It's been his last 2, including last night. So before that it was just his last one appearance. Because his 4 appearances before that he had 4 innings with 2 base runners allowed, 4 Ks, and 0 earned runs. 

So, yes, many people do appear to be being quite emotional about things. Back to back blowup appearances should absolutely get Rocco's attention. But the fact that you are just randomly guessing "three or so appearances" shows that you're being emotional about it because you don't even know what his appearances have actually been and are just going off what it feels like.

One of the best hitters on the planet (Yordan Alvarez) popped him for a 2 run shot in an earlier appearance so his ERA is astronomical, and with the Twins offense being what it is these days any runs given up by the pen means Ws turn to Ls and people lose their minds.

Jax hasn't been the Jax we were all expecting after the last couple years. Hasn't been automatic. His last 2 appearances have been absolutely abysmal. But pretending like it's been appearance after appearance after appearance and it's crazy that Rocco hasn't demoted him is the emotional response right now. Because it's been 2 appearances, including last night. 

There's still nearly 90% of the season left, folks. Buckle in. As it turns out, baseball is a long season.

[1985Fan]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

It's been his last 2, including last night. So before that it was just his last one appearance. Because his 4 appearances before that he had 4 innings with 2 base runners allowed, 4 Ks, and 0 earned runs. 

So, yes, many people do appear to be being quite emotional about things. Back to back blowup appearances should absolutely get Rocco's attention. But the fact that you are just randomly guessing "three or so appearances" shows that you're being emotional about it because you don't even know what his appearances have actually been and are just going off what it feels like.

One of the best hitters on the planet (Yordan Alvarez) popped him for a 2 run shot in an earlier appearance so his ERA is astronomical, and with the Twins offense being what it is these days any runs given up by the pen means Ws turn to Ls and people lose their minds.

Jax hasn't been the Jax we were all expecting after the last couple years. Hasn't been automatic. His last 2 appearances have been absolutely abysmal. But pretending like it's been appearance after appearance after appearance and is  emotional response right now. Because it's been 2 appearances, including last night. 

There's still nearly 90% of the season left, folks. Buckle in. As it turns out, baseball is a long season.

I’m not “randomly guessing” three or more bad appearances by Jax. His record is 2 blown saves and 2 losses. His stat line is 8 innings pitched, 10 ER, 14 hits, in 9 appearances. That is more than two bad appearances. 

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

I’m not “randomly guessing” three or more bad appearances by Jax. His record is 2 blown saves and 2 losses. His stat line is 8 innings pitched, 10 ER, 14 hits, in 9 appearances. That is more than two bad appearances. 

You didn't say "three or more bad appearances by Jax." You said "If you have seen Jax last three or so appearances, you would have to admit he is struggling." And I just gave you his last 6 appearances. 4 appearances of dominance followed by 2 complete blowups. Your statement about his last 3 appearances was wrong. Before last night he'd been dominant until his appearance Wednesday. But since you don't actually know what his appearances look like individually you made assumptions and guessed at his "last three or so appearances."

7 ER runs came in his last 2 appearances. You were attempting to claim it was clear Jax has been struggling and Rocco should be demoting him. I gave you what his previous 4 appearances had been since he gave up that 2 run homer to Alvarez (which now covers 9 of those 10 ER in 3 of those 9 appearances). He wasn't struggling at all until Wednesday. He'd been dominant. 2 base runners in 4 innings pitched before Wednesday. Was Rocco supposed to demote him because of his blowup Wednesday? 4 dominant appearances followed by a blowup and Rocco needs to send him to the bottom of the pecking order? Or was it the run he gave up opening day that should have lead to his demotion? Cuz that's the other run. 

His stats before Wednesday were 6.2 innings, 3 earned, 10 Ks. These last 2 appearances added 1.1 innings and 7 earned. 6.2 innings with 3 earned and 10 Ks and a run of 4 innings with no earned and 4 Ks was what he was coming off before these last 2 outings. Suggesting he was struggling before these last 2 appearances is an emotional response and not based on the actual reality of the situation.

[beckmt]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

It's been his last 2, including last night. So before that it was just his last one appearance. Because his 4 appearances before that he had 4 innings with 2 base runners allowed, 4 Ks, and 0 earned runs. 

So, yes, many people do appear to be being quite emotional about things. Back to back blowup appearances should absolutely get Rocco's attention. But the fact that you are just randomly guessing "three or so appearances" shows that you're being emotional about it because you don't even know what his appearances have actually been and are just going off what it feels like.

One of the best hitters on the planet (Yordan Alvarez) popped him for a 2 run shot in an earlier appearance so his ERA is astronomical, and with the Twins offense being what it is these days any runs given up by the pen means Ws turn to Ls and people lose their minds.

Jax hasn't been the Jax we were all expecting after the last couple years. Hasn't been automatic. His last 2 appearances have been absolutely abysmal. But pretending like it's been appearance after appearance after appearance and it's crazy that Rocco hasn't demoted him is the emotional response right now. Because it's been 2 appearances, including last night. 

There's still nearly 90% of the season left, folks. Buckle in. As it turns out, baseball is a long season.

And the losses count the same now as later.  Again today and another Rocco mismanage pitching staff day.  Twins have no chance with this type of pitcher management.  We need to fire Rocco now. 

[chpettit19]

7 hours ago, beckmt said:

And the losses count the same now as later.  Again today and another Rocco mismanage pitching staff day.  Twins have no chance with this type of pitcher management.  We need to fire Rocco now. 

I don't care if they fire Rocco. I didn't think there was anything crazy with Rocco's management last night. The Twins only scored 3 runs. If you don't score 5 runs in an MLB game you should expect to lose. If you score 3 or fewer you should really expect to lose. If you think there's a manager out there who's going to consistently win you games where your offense is only scoring you 3 runs, more power to you.

I won't lose sleep over them firing Rocco. I don't care about managers. They don't make much difference to me. Talent wins. This offense isn't talented enough. But there sure do seem to be a lot of you who think a different manager could get this pitching staff to have a sub-3 ERA. That sure would be impressive.

[1985Fan]

On 4/19/2025 at 7:55 PM, chpettit19 said:

You didn't say "three or more bad appearances by Jax." You said "If you have seen Jax last three or so appearances, you would have to admit he is struggling." And I just gave you his last 6 appearances. 4 appearances of dominance followed by 2 complete blowups. Your statement about his last 3 appearances was wrong. Before last night he'd been dominant until his appearance Wednesday. But since you don't actually know what his appearances look like individually you made assumptions and guessed at his "last three or so appearances."

7 ER runs came in his last 2 appearances. You were attempting to claim it was clear Jax has been struggling and Rocco should be demoting him. I gave you what his previous 4 appearances had been since he gave up that 2 run homer to Alvarez (which now covers 9 of those 10 ER in 3 of those 9 appearances). He wasn't struggling at all until Wednesday. He'd been dominant. 2 base runners in 4 innings pitched before Wednesday. Was Rocco supposed to demote him because of his blowup Wednesday? 4 dominant appearances followed by a blowup and Rocco needs to send him to the bottom of the pecking order? Or was it the run he gave up opening day that should have lead to his demotion? Cuz that's the other run. 

His stats before Wednesday were 6.2 innings, 3 earned, 10 Ks. These last 2 appearances added 1.1 innings and 7 earned. 6.2 innings with 3 earned and 10 Ks and a run of 4 innings with no earned and 4 Ks was what he was coming off before these last 2 outings. Suggesting he was struggling before these last 2 appearances is an emotional response and not based on the actual reality of the situation.

Looks like Rocco decided to “demote” Jax after all. After all your blathering about how emotional and ridiculous a suggestion it was to move Jax down the pecking order, Rocco has pitched Jax in the 7th inning in two games against the lowly White Sox.
So Rocco’s answer to your question is yes, Jax should be moved down the BP pecking order to get himself back on track. 

[chpettit19]

5 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

Looks like Rocco decided to “demote” Jax after all. After all your blathering about how emotional and ridiculous a suggestion it was to move Jax down the pecking order, Rocco has pitched Jax in the 7th inning in two games against the lowly White Sox.
So Rocco’s answer to your question is yes, Jax should be moved down the BP pecking order to get himself back on track. 

I never said he shouldn't demote him. I said he wasn't struggling before his back to back blowup games. I even specifically said that those 2 games should get Rocco's attention.

And if you think pitching him in the 7th in 1 run games instead of the 8th inning in 1 run games is some sort of huge demotion you haven't been paying any attention at all to how Rocco runs his bullpen.