Two Years In: Do the Twins Regret Signing Carlos Correa?

[Jocko87]

24 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Maybe we should set just a little bit higher standard at TD to get an article published? Something that requires more than half a brain cell to determine that this is a ridiculous subject to discuss?

Considering the reliance on pre-arb talent some sort of minor league system might be appropriate as well.

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

What would have been the reaction on TD (and elsewhere) if the FO didn’t give fans a heads-up last year about dropping the budget by $30 million and then did it anyway? I think the reaction would have been worse.

I very strongly disagree. How many would've noticed? Us on TD would, yes, but we're outliers. But announcing it in November before season ticket sales go into full swing? That's way worse than just letting it happen. Doing their same old same old "we're talking with people and just coming up short on trying to sign guys" bit all winter after individual game tickets go on sale after a mini playoff run instead of announcing publicly that you're cutting payroll? Way better for ticket sales. 

The average fan wouldn't have noticed and they would've sold tickets over the offseason and early into the season if they hadn't announced anything. The media would've connected them to a couple players throughout the offseason as "good fits" which would've grown fan excitement and increased ticket sales. Early season ticket sales would've been better which would've covered until the team got how and spent most of the summer as one of the best teams in baseball before the collapse. They almost undoubtedly would've sold more tickets last year had they kept their mouths shut all offseason and just kept with what used to be Falvey's favorite phrase "the Pohlads give us enough resources to build a contending team." 

They'd be in the same spot now of being almost universally despised, but they would've made more money last year. The bungled every PR situation they could the entire offseason. I don't know how anyone could argue differently. It was a complete and total disaster.

[saviking]

Yes

[chpettit19]

24 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

He absolutely did not kick off Correa trade concerns this year.

One media member made up the scenario and others asked him about it. He is not in a position to say anything firmly with a sale over his head.

His answer was perfect in 49 states. And Puerto Rico.

His words don't matter when a dedicated group will only hear what they want to hear.

There's a "dedicated group" in all 49 states, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the CNMI. Acting like MN is the only state/fan base that has fans who take rumors and run with them is nonsense. 

The sale didn't change his answer one bit. That's a cop out. The sale didn't make it impossible for him to say "We get calls on Carlos and all of our players, but Carlos is our shortstop and we have no plans to trade him." That's a perfectly acceptable answer he could have given, but didn't. Anybody reading between those lines to say the Twins are shopping Correa is being immediately dismissed. 

His words do matter. He's the top non-ownership member of the organization. Everything he says matters. Especially now with the fanbase already in full on rebellion mode. It's not about the "dedicated group (that) only hear what they want to hear" it's about everyone else. Leaving the door open for interpretation during what he knows will be another slow winter where ticket sales will already be insanely low is bad PR for the guy now in charge of also driving ticket sales along with building a baseball team. 

People said it didn't matter when they announced the payroll decrease last year either. It does matter. It all matters. Whether it's just a stupid media group and fanbase who isn't smart enough to keep up or not, it matters and he needs to be better. He's in charge of it all now. Figure it out and quit saying things that get your fanbase to turn on you.

[chpettit19]

4 hours ago, old nurse said:

Considering that there are reports that the Mariners are fielding offers on Castillo does Dipoto them come across as a liar thus hurting PR and should go to classes?

No. The Mariners haven't traded Castillo. They reportedly also got offered Bohm for Kirby or Gilbert and turned that down immediately. Because every team gets calls on every useful player that could be reasonably seen as possibly available. 

If Dipoto is just looking to salary dump Castillo (or Falvey is looking to just salary dump Correa) then he needs to be looser with his stance. But if he's going to keep him unless he gets the price he's asking then you take the strong stance knowing the only way you actually trade someone from your rotation (or Correa) is if you get a deal that is an obvious win. If you bring back a massive package the fan base is excited that your offense isn't going to bring you down so much next year and you win the PR on the trade. Instead of having negative PR out there for a trade that may never even happen.

[nicksaviking]

Do I think Derek Falvey, Rocco Baldelli and the 25 other players on the team regret the signing? Obviously not.

Do I think Joe Pohlad, who now wants to present an overly favorable cash flow to prospective buyers regrets it? Very obviously.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

3 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

What would have been the reaction on TD (and elsewhere) if the FO didn’t give fans a heads-up last year about dropping the budget by $30 million and then did it anyway? I think the reaction would have been worse.

I don’t see it as a “heads up” to the fans, but more shifting the responsibility early. No reason for Falvey to say a word publicly about payroll at all.

The message at any point should have been “we like where we are at, so far, don’t see any deals that fit for us.” That would have been the loyal Terry Ryan type of thing to say. 

[Schmoeman5]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

He absolutely did not kick off Correa trade concerns this year.

One media member made up the scenario and others asked him about it. He is not in a position to say anything firmly with a sale over his head.

His answer was perfect in 49 states. And Puerto Rico.

His words don't matter when a dedicated group will only hear what they want to hear.

Really! He was asked a question.  His response should be an easy answer. Along the line of. Yeah, sure. Other teams are inquiring about Correa. But we (the Twins) aren't even considering that as an option. Next question. 

[HerbieFan]

I would guess that anyone...anyone...connected to the Twins in any way shape or form that actually care about winning baseball games does NOT regret the signing.  I guess that just leaves a couple members of the Pohlad family (I'm looking at you Joe)

[Jocko87]

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

There's a "dedicated group" in all 49 states, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the CNMI. Acting like MN is the only state/fan base that has fans who take rumors and run with them is nonsense. 

The sale didn't change his answer one bit. That's a cop out. The sale didn't make it impossible for him to say "We get calls on Carlos and all of our players, but Carlos is our shortstop and we have no plans to trade him." That's a perfectly acceptable answer he could have given, but didn't. Anybody reading between those lines to say the Twins are shopping Correa is being immediately dismissed. 

His words do matter. He's the top non-ownership member of the organization. Everything he says matters. Especially now with the fanbase already in full on rebellion mode. It's not about the "dedicated group (that) only hear what they want to hear" it's about everyone else. Leaving the door open for interpretation during what he knows will be another slow winter where ticket sales will already be insanely low is bad PR for the guy now in charge of also driving ticket sales along with building a baseball team. 

People said it didn't matter when they announced the payroll decrease last year either. It does matter. It all matters. Whether it's just a stupid media group and fanbase who isn't smart enough to keep up or not, it matters and he needs to be better. He's in charge of it all now. Figure it out and quit saying things that get your fanbase to turn on you.

 

2 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Really! He was asked a question.  His response should be an easy answer. Along the line of. Yeah, sure. Other teams are inquiring about Correa. But we (the Twins) aren't even considering that as an option. Next question. 

Quote

 

So let’s read what he said.  It nots the least bit different than what you wanted him to say.  It’s mealy mouth manager speak to answer a ******** question he is rightly annoyed that he has to answer.

Matter of fact, reading this again should give us full license to write a bunch of these crap articles about Buxton, Lewis, Duran, Jax, Pablo and Walker Jenkins.  He has obviously declared everyone available here.  Lifetime supply of clickbait!  

Quote

“We get calls on a lot of our players,” Falvey said Monday. “Some, we have to listen; we have to hear the conversation. Some go absolutely nowhere, but they’re the guys that you would expect teams to call on. So in light of the team sale situation, some of the dynamics around our roster otherwise, I think there’s enough teams kind of checking in.

“And what we tell every team is: Listen, we’re open to being creative. We can’t rule anything out before we hear it, no matter who the player is, and so we’ll just be respectful of their process and what they’re going through and try to kick some creative ideas around. It’s what led us to a Pablo trade, or something like that, at different junctures. So we have to stay open-minded to those things.”

When he was pushed on Correa…the exact same thing.  There is no here here.  Don’t get bent out of shape because he didn’t use your preferred version of saying nothing.  And yes, your hypothetical quote is also a version of saying nothing.  

Quote

You expect teams to call on players like that, especially with where we are and some of the conversations we’re having with other clubs. But we want to win, and a high bar is set.”

 

[tony&rodney]

So what I read is that Falvey has communication issues.

A relative who is from another state, only really follows football, and reads the Falvey piece asks me, "So why are the Twins listening to offers on Carlos Correa? Do you think the Twins are going to trade Correa?"

I respond - "I think it was just a little bit of mumbling that was misconstrued by people. I don't know what the Twins think about Correa."

My relative -  "Sounds like somebody is sending messages."

Me -  "Nah, just poor communication."

Relative - "What about the Vikings?"

Me - "No idea. I don't follow football but my son tells me they are going to the Super Bowl."

....... etc.

[chpettit19]

3 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

 

So let’s read what he said.  It nots the least bit different than what you wanted him to say.  It’s mealy mouth manager speak to answer a ******** question he is rightly annoyed that he has to answer.

Matter of fact, reading this again should give us full license to write a bunch of these crap articles about Buxton, Lewis, Duran, Jax, Pablo and Walker Jenkins.  He has obviously declared everyone available here.  Lifetime supply of clickbait!  

When he was pushed on Correa…the exact same thing.  There is no here here.  Don’t get bent out of shape because he didn’t use your preferred version of saying nothing.  And yes, your hypothetical quote is also a version of saying nothing.  

 

Nobody is bent out of shape. But "try to kick some creative ideas around" transitioning into leaving the door open to trading Correa is very different from shutting it down with "Correa is our shortstop and we have no plans to trade him." "Try to kick some creative ideas around" very much leaves it open to interpretation that they're having open and active conversations about trading Carlos Correa. "We get calls, but aren't planning on trading him" does not give that same kind of impression at all. They're not the same answer. They are more than the least bit different. His words matter.

Why is he annoyed he has to answer a question every head baseball person has to answer? Why are you acting like this is something every GM or POBO doesn't deal with? He's paid millions of dollars a year to run a baseball team. He can put on his big boy pants and answer the same question every other head baseball person answers. He's not "rightly annoyed." If he's annoyed by having to answer the obvious question then he should quit and find a different job.

And there have been articles about trading a bunch of people. And there will be every year. Because the honest answer is that every player is available for the right price. The question isn't what the honest answer is or whether or not this is a media driven thing and not really what Falvey meant, it's about letting the media drive the narrative or taking control of it yourself and stopping the continued deuteriation of the relationship between the team and the fans. "Well its the media and the fans should just be smarter" while shrugging their shoulders has been the Twins way of dealing with this stuff for a long time. And it's why they suck at selling tickets and driving revenue. DSP has been horrible at this stuff and Falvey seems to be taking his lead from him. Maybe MN fans really are the only dumb ones in the entire country and it just sucks that Falvey has to deal with this specific fanbase, but this is still the fanbase he has to deal with. The comments lead to more angry fans. After a complete disaster of an offseason last year and a complete disaster of an end to this season. "Fans should just be smarter" is not the correct response. Better statements is. Better PR is. Rebuilding the relationship between the team and the fans is.

The fans are pissed. You're now relying on fans to buy tickets to games and streaming packages for TV revenue. "Not my fault they misunderstood what I said, stupid media and stupid fans fault, not mine" is the wrong answer. Alienating your fan base even more than you have over the last 13 months is the worst possible outcome whether it's the fans fault or not. Telling the fans they need to change how smart they are isn't the right answer. That's the DSP approach. Changing how you act and speak as an organization is the right answer. Falvey and the Twins need to message better. If the last 13 months hasn't made that abundantly clear, I don't know what will. Blaming the moron MN media and fans is a cop out and not a solution. It's on the team to fix what they do. Not the fans.

[nicksaviking]

4 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Really! He was asked a question.  His response should be an easy answer. Along the line of. Yeah, sure. Other teams are inquiring about Correa. But we (the Twins) aren't even considering that as an option. Next question. 

I have no interest in Falvey giving definitive statements. Be vague, play company secrets close to the vest and let the other teams know as little as possible about your plans.

Will fans hate it? Yes. So what, keep as much on the QT as possible.

[bean5302]

Correa is a great shortstop. Teams are interested, but few are going to be interested taking on his entire contract, even if there is surplus value. There's nothing in Derek Falvey's answer which alludes to any significant discussions on Correa or the team actively shopping him. Reports on Correa being traded are wispy, lack any teams involved or even confirmation there is more than a check-in level of activity.

Here's what it looks like when the Twins were actively looking to move cornerstone players at the deadline in 2021.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/byron-buxton-trade-rumors-twins-phillies.html

Quote

1:36PM: Both Buxton and Josh Donaldson are being shopped by the Twins, MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand tweets. Donaldson is in the second season of a four-year, $92MM contract with Minnesota.

Do the Twins regret signing Correa? I doubt it. He's a big part of the reason they won their first playoff game and series in 20 years. They probably regret the structure of the contract.

[rv78]

I'm not a fan of Correa or the contract he was given. I think he is over-rated when you look beyond his defense. That being said, the only way signing him was NOT a mistake is if they keep adding QUALITY players that make the team better. In the last 2 seasons since he was signed they've added 1 quality player, Pablo Lopez. Sorry, but that is NOT being committed. If they are really serious about becoming a perrenial playoff contender, which they said was their "goal" it's going to take more. Either their hands are tied by the owners, or Falvey doesn't know what he is doing, or both. At this point, we won't really find out unless NEW owners are willing to spend the money to accomplish that goal. Otherwise it is a waste of time and money. 

[Trov]

The heel issues are not good, but he has been for most part what they were expecting.  If you get what you thought you were going to get why would you regret it?  The biggest issue is the loss of TV money and teams cutting costs, but money still going up.  We still do not have a clear replacement at SS either.