Matt Wallner Is Obliterating Baseballs

[twinstalker]

I'm a K rate diehard, as you've probably seen and grown tired of.  Chance of Yunior Severino becoming a decent MLBer?  0.   Therefore, prospect status?  None.

In all my prospecting in all my leagues, I swear by K rate, and it rewards me.  The one exception I've made to my hard and fast rules is Matt Wallner, and I'm not sure why.  I've gotten the feeling while watching him progress that his Ks aren't so much about trying to hit the ball as they are about not caring about striking out when he goes up there.  And if he does care about not striking out in a particular at-bat, he has a much different one.  When this is the case, K rate doesn't tell the story.

If Wallner has the ability to put together a good AB at will, then let him swing for the fences the rest of the time.  I will say my theory about him got stressed at the beginning of the year.

[chpettit19]

55 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Regular, yes! Everyday player that you set it and forget it, no! 

He's a 400 PA player on a good team. And he'd likely hit close to 30 HRs in those PAs. 

If the Twins have someone hitting 30ish HRs in 400ish PAs they better not be purposefully limiting their PAs.

[LA Vikes Fan]

It's understandable that they shield Wallner from LH pitching. Here's his slash lines the last 3 years - 2024 (9 ABs, .111/.200/.111), 2023 (42 ABs, .119/.196/.286), 2022 (17 ABs, .118/.167/.176).  Admittedly a small sample size but pretty abysmal. I still think that they need to find out if he can improve against LH pitching. The only way to find out is consistent ABs. Maybe hit him 8th for now until he can ramp up.  The problem is for whom? Margot is hitting lefties well and we want Miranda, Lewis, and Santana in the lineup. The obvious answers are either a combination of rest days for those 3 and displacing Kepler, or limiting Margot. The second one ain't going to happen so it's really a choice of who do you want sitting against LH pitching -  Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Margot, Kepler, Wallner.  Has to be one of them. Hard to blame Rocco for sitting Wallner - he is the obvious choice.  

[NYCTK]

19 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If the Twins have someone hitting 30ish HRs in 400ish PAs they better not be purposefully limiting their PAs.

I mean, they're doing that right now and he's on a heater exceeding that. He's only started 5 of the last 10 games and on a full season pace of 375 PAs in that stretch. So...idk what to tell you. 

[arby58]

50 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I won't say he couldn't improve. His peripherals against lefties haven't been worlds different. But I don't have faith he'd improve enough to the point he's a good player combined with his bad defense. 

 

He is stiff in the outfield, but he has a cannon for an arm. If he eventually ended up at 1B (given his height), that would be ok if he is an .850 OPS guy. Have Santana work with him.

[RpR]

10 minutes ago, arby58 said:

He is stiff in the outfield, but he has a cannon for an arm. If he eventually ended up at 1B (given his height), that would be ok if he is an .850 OPS guy. Have Santana work with him.

How, have Santana rub Ben Gay on his joints so he is not so stiff?

[chpettit19]

10 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I mean, they're doing that right now and he's on a heater exceeding that. He's only started 5 of the last 10 games and on a full season pace of 375 PAs in that stretch. So...idk what to tell you. 

And some of us are saying it's a mistake. There were 212 players to get 400 PAs last season. 29 hit 30 HRs. 52 hit 25. Jose Siri jumps in at the 25 mark as well if you take away all PA requirements. 53 guys in all of baseball hit at least 25 HRs last year. 29 hit 30. 2 guys with fewer than 500 PAs hit 30 HRs. Their names are J.D. Martinez and Aaron Judge. If Wallner can hit 30 HRs in 400 PAs and the Twins are actively keeping him from getting 650+ PAs instead, they are making a mistake.

Obviously his HR per PA numbers would go down with more PAs against lefties, but if you have someone putting up top 30 in baseball numbers in 400 PAs it's doing a disservice to that player and your team to not see if they can adapt and put up top 10 in baseball numbers in 650 PAs.

[NYCTK]

9 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

And some of us are saying it's a mistake. There were 212 players to get 400 PAs last season. 29 hit 30 HRs. 52 hit 25. Jose Siri jumps in at the 25 mark as well if you take away all PA requirements. 53 guys in all of baseball hit at least 25 HRs last year. 29 hit 30. 2 guys with fewer than 500 PAs hit 30 HRs. Their names are J.D. Martinez and Aaron Judge. If Wallner can hit 30 HRs in 400 PAs and the Twins are actively keeping him from getting 650+ PAs instead, they are making a mistake.

Obviously his HR per PA numbers would go down with more PAs against lefties, but if you have someone putting up top 30 in baseball numbers in 400 PAs it's doing a disservice to that player and your team to not see if they can adapt and put up top 10 in baseball numbers in 650 PAs.

At a certain point it's up to the player to perform. Matt quite simply sucks, right now, against lefties. It's malpractice to allow him medium or high leverage plate appearance against one. 

169/250/361 this season across AAA and MLB. 

118/189/235 in his major league career. 

We can cry about small samples but he simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. 

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

To be completely honest, he will almost certainly never be an everyday player for an entire season on a good team. His skillset is limited and he can be a good contributor on a good team in smaller capacity. I really hope the Twins don't think he's the every day RF in 2025. 

Pretty sure - unless he collapses in next 45-50 days, that’s the plan for RF.

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

At a certain point it's up to the player to perform. Matt quite simply sucks, right now, against lefties. It's malpractice to allow him medium or high leverage plate appearance against one. 

169/250/361 this season across AAA and MLB. 

118/189/235 in his major league career. 

We can cry about small samples but he simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. 

Then why does Manuel Margot have more PAs against righties than lefties? If it's about performance and splits matter, Margot should never see a righty. Ever. But he does. More than he sees lefties. He simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. But his manager does play him. 

The Twins actively sit Wallner and Larnach and Kirilloff and Julien and all the lefties against lefties to avoid their cumulative .243/.292/.340/.632 line against lefties in 113 PAs but get Margot in there where he's put up a .205/.262/.274/.535 line against righties in 126 PAs. 

74 PAs against lefties is beyond a small sample size. It's a useless sample size. He can't do anything to allow his manager to play him if he isn't first given the chance to play. The Twins have a hard and fast rule that lefties don't face lefties unless they absolutely have to. It's a bad strategy that never allows your lefties to show they can hit lefties. 

Gunnar Henderson in 2022 against lefties: .130/.231/.217/.448 in 26 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2023 against lefties: .210/.293/.324/.618 in 167 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2024 against lefties: .242/.367/.476/.843 in 150 PAs.

Lefties can hit lefties. And lefties who start out poorly against lefties can get better. But they have to be given the chance. 

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

It's understandable that they shield Wallner from LH pitching. Here's his slash lines the last 3 years - 2024 (9 ABs, .111/.200/.111), 2023 (42 ABs, .119/.196/.286), 2022 (17 ABs, .118/.167/.176).  Admittedly a small sample size but pretty abysmal. I still think that they need to find out if he can improve against LH pitching. The only way to find out is consistent ABs. Maybe hit him 8th for now until he can ramp up.  The problem is for whom? Margot is hitting lefties well and we want Miranda, Lewis, and Santana in the lineup. The obvious answers are either a combination of rest days for those 3 and displacing Kepler, or limiting Margot. The second one ain't going to happen so it's really a choice of who do you want sitting against LH pitching -  Lewis, Miranda, Santana, Margot, Kepler, Wallner.  Has to be one of them. Hard to blame Rocco for sitting Wallner - he is the obvious choice.  

Stretch run for a playoff spot is not time for experimentation! .115 in 68 AB’s is enough for me to let him get some work in during the offseason & next Spring.

Correct on the obvious choice!!

[JD-TWINS]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Then why does Manuel Margot have more PAs against righties than lefties? If it's about performance and splits matter, Margot should never see a righty. Ever. But he does. More than he sees lefties. He simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. But his manager does play him. 

The Twins actively sit Wallner and Larnach and Kirilloff and Julien and all the lefties against lefties to avoid their cumulative .243/.292/.340/.632 line against lefties in 113 PAs but get Margot in there where he's put up a .205/.262/.274/.535 line against righties in 126 PAs. 

74 PAs against lefties is beyond a small sample size. It's a useless sample size. He can't do anything to allow his manager to play him if he isn't first given the chance to play. The Twins have a hard and fast rule that lefties don't face lefties unless they absolutely have to. It's a bad strategy that never allows your lefties to show they can hit lefties. 

Gunnar Henderson in 2022 against lefties: .130/.231/.217/.448 in 26 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2023 against lefties: .210/.293/.324/.618 in 167 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2024 against lefties: .242/.367/.476/.843 in 150 PAs.

Lefties can hit lefties. And lefties who start out poorly against lefties can get better. But they have to be given the chance. 

Tony Oliva’s OPS against lefties was sub .675…… saying things about left handed hitters doesn’t make them real. Some lefties hit well against lefty pitching - given!! Not everyone does - most guys grow up facing predominantly RIGHT HANDED PITCHERS (regardless of which side they hit from) so it’s not as big of a deal for RH hitters. Not a big deal for some lefties to face lefties but it’s more common.

The question about Margot comes up every 4 days - it’s nuts!!

When Kepler can’t play - Buxton can’t play - Wallner’s been sent down - Julien’s been sent down - Larnach’s toe is messed up - Kirilloff is hurt or just sucks - Correa is out - Lewis is out, so Castro can’t play OF……..75% of pitchers are RH …….if he’s the only healthy guy available to play OF in maybe 50% of the games, he’s going to see lots of RH pitching. ……..Same with Santana when Kirilloff had to play OF - he got many more LH AB’s than were intended going into the season.

It’s not some conspiracy nor complete lack of logic…….it’s how the performances of guys around him and mostly HEALTH has driven line-up decisions.

[JD-TWINS]

15 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then why does Manuel Margot have more PAs against righties than lefties? If it's about performance and splits matter, Margot should never see a righty. Ever. But he does. More than he sees lefties. He simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. But his manager does play him. 

The Twins actively sit Wallner and Larnach and Kirilloff and Julien and all the lefties against lefties to avoid their cumulative .243/.292/.340/.632 line against lefties in 113 PAs but get Margot in there where he's put up a .205/.262/.274/.535 line against righties in 126 PAs. 

74 PAs against lefties is beyond a small sample size. It's a useless sample size. He can't do anything to allow his manager to play him if he isn't first given the chance to play. The Twins have a hard and fast rule that lefties don't face lefties unless they absolutely have to. It's a bad strategy that never allows your lefties to show they can hit lefties. 

Gunnar Henderson in 2022 against lefties: .130/.231/.217/.448 in 26 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2023 against lefties: .210/.293/.324/.618 in 167 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2024 against lefties: .242/.367/.476/.843 in 150 PAs.

Lefties can hit lefties. And lefties who start out poorly against lefties can get better. But they have to be given the chance. 

Wallner could not hit RH pitching to start the year - nor in Spring Traing - nor in AAA for months ….,,,why would anyone think it’s a good idea for his psyche to send him to the plate against LH pitching to “try & work on it”?

[NYCTK]

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then why does Manuel Margot have more PAs against righties than lefties? If it's about performance and splits matter, Margot should never see a righty. Ever. But he does. More than he sees lefties. He simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. But his manager does play him. 

The Twins actively sit Wallner and Larnach and Kirilloff and Julien and all the lefties against lefties to avoid their cumulative .243/.292/.340/.632 line against lefties in 113 PAs but get Margot in there where he's put up a .205/.262/.274/.535 line against righties in 126 PAs. 

74 PAs against lefties is beyond a small sample size. It's a useless sample size. He can't do anything to allow his manager to play him if he isn't first given the chance to play. The Twins have a hard and fast rule that lefties don't face lefties unless they absolutely have to. It's a bad strategy that never allows your lefties to show they can hit lefties. 

Gunnar Henderson in 2022 against lefties: .130/.231/.217/.448 in 26 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2023 against lefties: .210/.293/.324/.618 in 167 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2024 against lefties: .242/.367/.476/.843 in 150 PAs.

Lefties can hit lefties. And lefties who start out poorly against lefties can get better. But they have to be given the chance. 

The difference is 293/324 plays at SS so you can ride it out. 189/235 wouldn't barely play at Catcher. Matt is no Gunnar. Happy to allow him to hit in low leverage PAs against lefties, but why would you want him starting against any left handed pitcher as a player that offers no value on defense either. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, JD-TWINS said:

Tony Oliva’s OPS against lefties was sub .675…… saying things about left handed hitters doesn’t make them real. Some lefties hit well against lefty pitching - given!! Not everyone does - most guys grow up facing predominantly RIGHT HANDED PITCHERS (regardless of which side they hit from) so it’s not as big of a deal for RH hitters. Not a big deal for some lefties to face lefties but it’s more common.

The question about Margot comes up every 4 days - it’s nuts!!

When Kepler can’t play - Buxton can’t play - Wallner’s been sent down - Julien’s been sent down - Larnach’s toe is messed up - Kirilloff is hurt or just sucks - Correa is out - Lewis is out, so Castro can’t play OF……..75% of pitchers are RH …….if he’s the only healthy guy available to play OF in maybe 50% of the games, he’s going to see lots of RH pitching. ……..Same with Santana when Kirilloff had to play OF - he got many more LH AB’s than were intended going into the season.

It’s not some conspiracy nor complete lack of logic…….it’s how the performances of guys around him and mostly HEALTH has driven line-up decisions.

It is a lack of logic because it's the guaranteed outcome. Or are you going to argue that the logical thing was that everyone on the team was going to perform and stay healthy all season so Margot was only ever going to face lefties? What's nuts is thinking this wasn't always the situation Margot was going to find himself in. Just like last year when Farmer saw 241 PAs against righties and only 128 against lefties even though they only wanted him to face lefties. Nobody you roster for more than short stints is ever going to face more lefties than righties. That's the flawed logic. And it isn't hard to see.

Tony Oliva didn't have the technology we have today. Tony didn't have things like Trajekt Arc that can spin the ball with the exact velo, spin, and movement of any left-handed pitcher in the majors. His only option to improve was to face a lefty bullpen arm throwing weak pitches to him or hope he faced lefties in games.

5 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Wallner could not hit RH pitching to start the year - nor in Spring Traing - nor in AAA for months ….,,,why would anyone think it’s a good idea for his psyche to send him to the plate against LH pitching to “try & work on it”?

If struggling in 10 PAs against lefties during the month of August is going to tank Wallner's psyche they should've traded him on Tuesday.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

The difference is 293/324 plays at SS so you can ride it out. 189/235 wouldn't barely play at Catcher. Matt is no Gunnar. Happy to allow him to hit in low leverage PAs against lefties, but why would you want him starting against any left handed pitcher as a player that offers no value on defense either. 

Well Gunnar played half his games at 3B last year. 76 starts at 3B, 77 at SS, 11 at DH. How does .293/.324 play at 3B and DH?

If you never give him, or any other lefty, the chance you doom yourself to a perpetual cycle of rostering Margot and Farmer types. And eventually those guys are always going to have to take a starting spot and will always face more righties than lefties. Never giving yourself a chance to have a lefty who can hit lefties is a bad strategy. Are they going to let Jenkins and Emma hit lefties when they come up? Or do people want to argue those 2 should automatically be added to the "lefties can't hit lefties" train, too?

[nova_twins]

Wallner will never be an asset against LHP. 

In-season ZiPS projects his 'true talent' as 123 RC+, standard corner platoon bat. 

[NYCTK]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Well Gunnar played half his games at 3B last year. 76 starts at 3B, 77 at SS, 11 at DH. How does .293/.324 play at 3B and DH?

If you never give him, or any other lefty, the chance you doom yourself to a perpetual cycle of rostering Margot and Farmer types. And eventually those guys are always going to have to take a starting spot and will always face more righties than lefties. Never giving yourself a chance to have a lefty who can hit lefties is a bad strategy. Are they going to let Jenkins and Emma hit lefties when they come up? Or do people want to argue those 2 should automatically be added to the "lefties can't hit lefties" train, too?

As a great glove at 3B? Yeah, that still plays. Gunnar has the potential to be an all-time great so it makes sense to allow him to work things out. Wallner has the potential to be...Miguel Sano, so teams will obviously be less willing to let him fight through slumps. 

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, nova_twins said:

Wallner will never be an asset against LHP. 

In-season ZiPS projects his 'true talent' as 123 RC+, standard corner platoon bat. 

Above average bat, below average glove. Wallner projects as a 2 WAR player for a few years and then that type of player that will move around the league for years, enough of a bat to get contracts but not enough of a ballplayer to start 100 games. 

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

As a great glove at 3B? Yeah, that still plays. Gunnar has the potential to be an all-time great so it makes sense to allow him to work things out. Wallner has the potential to be...Miguel Sano, so teams will obviously be less willing to let him fight through slumps. 

Come on. At least be honest about that not at all playing at 3B. A .324 slugging doesn't touch anywhere close to a usable 3B, no matter how good your glove is.

[chpettit19]

19 minutes ago, nova_twins said:

Wallner will never be an asset against LHP. 

In-season ZiPS projects his 'true talent' as 123 RC+, standard corner platoon bat. 

I don't know if this is sarcasm, but if it's not, dang, we're calling a 123 wRC+ a standard corner platoon bat? There are currently 42 qualified hitters in all of baseball with a 123 wRC+. There's only 56 in all of baseball at 115 or better. 

Drop it down to 200 PAs or more and you're at a whopping 62 guys at 123 wRC+. Somebody needs to let those silly Orioles know they need to start platooning Colton Cowser since he's a lefty bat with a 123 wRC+. Standard corner platoon bat. Oh, and let the Mets know Nimmo is in the same boat. Luckily for the Guardians Josh Naylor is at a 124 wRC+ so he's good enough not to be a platoon bat, but a week long slump and he's just a standard corner platoon bat, too.

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Come on. At least be honest about that not at all playing at 3B. A .324 slugging doesn't touch anywhere close to a usable 3B, no matter how good your glove is.

It quite literally does though? If you're a 291/301 hitter at 3B with an average-ish glove, you'd look like Gio Urshela and you'd be about replacement level. So, if we're just talking about the weaker side of a split with a good glove? Yeah, that plays. 

[TwinsDr2021]

56 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Then why does Manuel Margot have more PAs against righties than lefties? If it's about performance and splits matter, Margot should never see a righty. Ever. But he does. More than he sees lefties. He simply hasn't done anything to allow his manager to play him. But his manager does play him. 

The Twins actively sit Wallner and Larnach and Kirilloff and Julien and all the lefties against lefties to avoid their cumulative .243/.292/.340/.632 line against lefties in 113 PAs but get Margot in there where he's put up a .205/.262/.274/.535 line against righties in 126 PAs. 

74 PAs against lefties is beyond a small sample size. It's a useless sample size. He can't do anything to allow his manager to play him if he isn't first given the chance to play. The Twins have a hard and fast rule that lefties don't face lefties unless they absolutely have to. It's a bad strategy that never allows your lefties to show they can hit lefties. 

Gunnar Henderson in 2022 against lefties: .130/.231/.217/.448 in 26 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2023 against lefties: .210/.293/.324/.618 in 167 PAs.
Gunnar Henderson in 2024 against lefties: .242/.367/.476/.843 in 150 PAs.

Lefties can hit lefties. And lefties who start out poorly against lefties can get better. But they have to be given the chance. 

I agree with 99% of the things you are saying about Wallner and more specially his usage. But can we stop making IMO silly comparisons, Wallner is a guy that didn't see the majors until age 24 and will be 27 when next season starts and Henderson was up at age 21 and at age 22 was ROY and top 10 MVP also by age 21  was seen as a potential hall of fame type of player and at a much older age Wallner was seen a possible major league regular.

There has been time and will be time going forward to get Wallner at bats against lefties, IMO the time isn't the start of a season (unless of course we are talking Jenkins or ERod next year, which I know is really wishful thinking)

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

It quite literally does though? If you're a 291/301 hitter at 3B with an average-ish glove, you'd look like Gio Urshela and you'd be about replacement level. So, if we're just talking about the weaker side of a split with a good glove? Yeah, that plays. 

Gio's slugging for his career against lefties is .422. Against righties it's .408. .324 is a long ways from either of those numbers. 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I agree with 99% of the things you are saying about Wallner and more specially his usage. But can we stop making IMO silly comparisons, Wallner is a guy that didn't see the majors until age 24 and will be 27 when next season starts and Henderson was up at age 21 and at age 22 was ROY and top 10 MVP also by age 21  was seen as a potential hall of fame type of player and at a much older age Wallner was seen a possible major league regular.

There has been time and will be time going forward to get Wallner at bats against lefties, IMO the time isn't the start of a season (unless of course we are talking Jenkins or ERod next year, which I know is really wishful thinking)

I didn't say Wallner was Gunnar, I used Gunnar as evidence that a slow start against lefties doesn't mean you're doomed to always be bad against lefties, but you can't show you can hit them if you're never given the chance.

And Aaron Judge didn't debut until he was 24, and put up a .608 OPS in 27 games that year. I know you love your ages, but they aren't the end all be all. That Judge guy (who's name shows up in this article next to Wallner's a bunch) has turned out alright. And I'm not now saying Wallner is Judge, but debut age isn't always the determining factor on how good somebody can be. Josh Donaldson didn't debut until 24. Didn't play a single major league game his age 25 season. Only played 75 games his age 26 season. Then finished 4th in MVP his age 27 season. And won the MVP his age 29 season. Ended up with 3 top 4 MVP finishes. It happens.

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Gio's slugging for his career against lefties is .422. Against righties it's .408. .324 is a long ways from either of those numbers. 

I just looked at his output at 3B this season, total. As a 3B he's hit like 240/290/300 and has 0.0 fWAR at that position. I'm not suggesting Gio's splits or previous performances. But the point is, yeah, that sort of a line isn't good but is essentially replacement level. So as a weaker side of a split, its easy to roster. Maybe Wallner could eventually figure out lefties, but there's nothing to suggest he will anytime soon and allowing him important PAs against any is a terrible idea. 

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I just looked at his output at 3B this season, total. As a 3B he's hit like 240/290/300 and has 0.0 fWAR at that position. I'm not suggesting Gio's splits or previous performances. But the point is, yeah, that sort of a line isn't good but is essentially replacement level. So as a weaker side of a split, its easy to roster. Maybe Wallner could eventually figure out lefties, but there's nothing to suggest he will anytime soon and allowing him important PAs against any is a terrible idea. 

He actually has -0.1 fWAR and he has -0.5 bWAR. Nobody is actively looking for a 0 or negative WAR player. 0 WAR means you can take any random AAAA player and get that production.

And, as has been pointed out, he's had multiple years in the minors where he did very well against lefties. That is something to suggest he will figure it out. And allowing Margot important PAs against righties is a terrible idea, but that's going to happen anyways. And he won't be here next year. If Wallner getting 30 PAs against lefties the rest of the year causes the Twins to miss the playoffs they weren't going to win the World Series anyways.

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

He actually has -0.1 fWAR and he has -0.5 bWAR. Nobody is actively looking for a 0 or negative WAR player. 0 WAR means you can take any random AAAA player and get that production.

And, as has been pointed out, he's had multiple years in the minors where he did very well against lefties. That is something to suggest he will figure it out. And allowing Margot important PAs against righties is a terrible idea, but that's going to happen anyways. And he won't be here next year. If Wallner getting 30 PAs against lefties the rest of the year causes the Twins to miss the playoffs they weren't going to win the World Series anyways.

You don't have to preach to me about Margot. I've wanted to DFA since March 29th. 

But you seem to be just misunderstanding my point. Yes, a 0 WAR player is not something anyone's looking for, but Gunnar clearly isn't that. I'm going off the previously established fact that he "struggled" against lefties, but A) his struggles were far less severe than Matt's to the point he was STILL replacement level at that production and B) Gunnar is a very skilled all-around ballplayer with all the evidence in the world that he would improve. 

No team trying to be competitive would allow Matt to hit against lefties if at all avoidable. 

[TwinsDr2021]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I didn't say Wallner was Gunnar, I used Gunnar as evidence that a slow start against lefties doesn't mean you're doomed to always be bad against lefties, but you can't show you can hit them if you're never given the chance.

And Aaron Judge didn't debut until he was 24, and put up a .608 OPS in 27 games that year. I know you love your ages, but they aren't the end all be all. That Judge guy (who's name shows up in this article next to Wallner's a bunch) has turned out alright. And I'm not now saying Wallner is Judge, but debut age isn't always the determining factor on how good somebody can be. Josh Donaldson didn't debut until 24. Didn't play a single major league game his age 25 season. Only played 75 games his age 26 season. Then finished 4th in MVP his age 27 season. And won the MVP his age 29 season. Ended up with 3 top 4 MVP finishes. It happens.

A  super young hall of fame talent is going to be given more opportunities than others was my point. As for Wallner, like a said I agreed with you, to me this is more on the Twins then Wallner at this point, Nobody knows what kind of hitter Wallner will be against lefties, because he hasn't been given the chance here, will he ever?  IMO what happened at the end of last year, spring and early in the season left a bad taste for the fans, and it certainly looks like the same for the front office. I think the Twins are trying to build him back up slowly and putting him in spots to succeed, we will see what happens when they expand that, I certainly hopes he succeeds.

[chpettit19]

17 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

A  super young hall of fame talent is going to be given more opportunities than others was my point. As for Wallner, like a said I agreed with you, to me this is more on the Twins then Wallner at this point, Nobody knows what kind of hitter Wallner will be against lefties, because he hasn't been given the chance here, will he ever?  IMO what happened at the end of last year, spring and early in the season left a bad taste for the fans, and it certainly looks like the same for the front office. I think the Twins are trying to build him back up slowly and putting him in spots to succeed, we will see what happens when they expand that, I certainly hopes he succeeds.

My concern is the Twins are going to treat Jenkins the same way as all their other lefties when he gets here. Do you think they'll let him play everyday against lefties if he's up at the age of 21 like the Orioles did with Gunnar, and have done with their other guys who are closer to Wallner's debut age? I don't.