Margot Misfortune Provides Keirsey Opportunity

[Doctor Gast]

20 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Doncon is basically equal to Miller as a prospect. Miller has a platinum glove and a lead bat.

Doncon

AB R H HR  RBI  SB  AVG  OBP  OPS 2024 MiLB Stats 120 17 35 4 17 3 .292 .367 .842

Miller 

AB R H HR  RBI  SB  AVG  OBP  OPS 2024 MiLB Stats 131 25 35 5 20 0 .267 .362 .797

Miller is finally getting the hitting coaching that's beneficial to his development. WOW 5 HRs already, hit a walk off in 1 of his 1st games, basically he's just starting. As his hitting improves he'll continue to rise on the LAD coveted prospect list

It's very difficult to find Miller's caliber of glove (Miller was my candidate for SS after Correa moves off), IMO Doncon shouldn't stick at SS for the Twins. The rest of the INF is jam-packed with players much better him. At catcher, SS, & CF glove trumps bat.

I have much more faith in LAD's players evaluation & development than ours who's by far greatest priority is HRs & forget defense.

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Miller is finally getting the hitting coaching that's beneficial to his development. WOW 5 HRs already, hit a walk off in 1 of his 1st games, basically he's just starting. As his hitting improves he'll continue to rise on the LAD coveted prospect list

Miller is a year older than Doncon so the comparison isn't exactly the same. I would hope Miller would improve his hitting when he repeats the same level as last year. Your guess is as good as mine as to which one develops into a big leaguer. The odds are against both of them. The trade was one player who is unlikely to contribute in the big leagues for Manuel Margot and a different player who is unlikely to contribute in the big leagues.

[saviking]

Bring Keirsey up if it means Margot goes. 

[Doctor Gast]

9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Miller is a year older than Doncon so the comparison isn't exactly the same. I would hope Miller would improve his hitting when he repeats the same level as last year. Your guess is as good as mine as to which one develops into a big leaguer. The odds are against both of them. The trade was one player who is unlikely to contribute in the big leagues for Manuel Margot and a different player who is unlikely to contribute in the big leagues.

Miller is 21 (still young) less than a year older & also a level higher. Miller's glove is near MLB ready right now so he'll find some where to play MLB SS (unfortunately not MN). Where & how well he'll be recognized will depend on how well LAD can develop his hitting. Miller has a lot of OBP potential but being developed according to his natural swing he's shown surprising power.

[sun]

The Twins should dump Margot & admit their mistake. That's the only way to get past it. When a player hits their prime it's time to use them or lose them. Teams don't improve their chances of winning a world series by relying on an outdated process. That's what bureaucrats do. It's time to improve the process & add Keirsey to the 40 man roster & give the man the promotion that he deserves. The Twins need him now, not in a month or in July. Let him work out the jitters sooner rather than later. The Twins won't be any worse off in the end no matter what he does. It's all about the bureaucrats & their red tape. Look at how long they stuck with Sano.

[Aerodeliria]

On 5/12/2024 at 10:35 PM, LambchoP said:

I would love to see him with the twins. Rocco places way too much importance on platooning, I just don't get it. Play your best hitters man. These young lefties need to learn how to hit lefty handed pitchers but they never will if you're constantly pulling them for RH hitters(that are doing nothing at the plate) like Margot and Farmer...

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Arraez is a case-in-point. The Marlins just said, 'You're hitting against everyone, and lo and behold, he started hitting lefties.'

[Greglw3]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:08 AM, mikelink45 said:

He should be up already. Not only has Margot not been the fielder he was supposed to be. He isn't batting either. Since the other teams are paying most of his salary, why are we waiting. I will take take Castro and Martin over him and I'm waiting for a true center. Fielder like Keirsey to come up. 

Very much agree, I’m a big fan of DaShawn Keirsey Jr. and with Tom Froemming’s minor league highlights have seen him play defense and hit a lot. I think he has an unusually sweet swing.

[wabene]

On 5/12/2024 at 5:37 PM, bean5302 said:

I thought it was a common opinion Margot was in significant decline, and that it was dubious he'd provide value?

It doesn't take some sort of human savant to know Margot had lost a lot of speed or that he was showing a major decline in his defensive value. A quick visit to Fangraphs and BaseballSavant.com reveals those patterns, along with his evaporation of plate discipline, too. He didn't hit lefties for beans last year, either.

I think the dead horse has been revisited for a thorough beating at least 2x a week for the past couple of months in regard to the trade, but pretending the acquisition of Margot was a popular move or that it was hard to predict Margot was likely cooked is a new argument I was unaware of.

Margot was coming of a leg injury last year and it was reasonable to assume his athleticism would return to close to previous levels. It isn't usual for such a rapid decline at 29.

[Riverbrian]

This has been an interesting discussion to read.

Here's the problem that seems to be glossed over. 

In order for Keirsay Jr to get placed on the 26 man roster. He will require a Margot on that same roster. 

Margot's misfortune does not provide opportunity for Keirsay.

Keirsay hitting left handed provides opportunity for Margot. 

[jmlease1]

20 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Doncon

AB R H HR  RBI  SB  AVG  OBP  OPS 2024 MiLB Stats 120 17 35 4 17 3 .292 .367 .842

Miller 

AB R H HR  RBI  SB  AVG  OBP  OPS 2024 MiLB Stats 131 25 35 5 20 0 .267 .362 .797

Miller is finally getting the hitting coaching that's beneficial to his development. WOW 5 HRs already, hit a walk off in 1 of his 1st games, basically he's just starting. As his hitting improves he'll continue to rise on the LAD coveted prospect list

It's very difficult to find Miller's caliber of glove (Miller was my candidate for SS after Correa moves off), IMO Doncon shouldn't stick at SS for the Twins. The rest of the INF is jam-packed with players much better him. At catcher, SS, & CF glove trumps bat.

I have much more faith in LAD's players evaluation & development than ours who's by far greatest priority is HRs & forget defense.

You've obviously settled on a narrative here, but I don't think you have a lot of evidence to back up the statement that the Twins only care about HRs and don't care about defense. If they didn't care about defense, why would they have brought Vazquez in as a catcher or Santana in to play 1B?

I hope for his sake that Miller has figured something out at the plate, but keep in mind he hit 4 of his HRs in a 3 game stretch and hasn't hit one since. So is it that he's figured something out, or he had a good weekend? Is his improvement at the plate because of the Dodgers superior coaching and development or because he's repeating the level?

The reality is that offense is more impactful in winning games, and this is one of the reasons Kiersey hasn't gotten a chance yet: there are still real questions about his hitting. He broke out in AA after repeating the level at 26. When he moved up to AAA last season he hardly lit the league on fire, and that was 100% a hitters environment. he's having a great season so far, and I'm happy to have him in the system, but it's fair to wonder if he's capable of being a league average hitter, and as a LH hitter can he fill a need to whack LHP? Because he didn't in 2023.

 

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

You've obviously settled on a narrative here, but I don't think you have a lot of evidence to back up the statement that the Twins only care about HRs and don't care about defense. If they didn't care about defense, why would they have brought Vazquez in as a catcher or Santana in to play 1B?

 My evidence is looking at the priority of their drafting, big bat with below-average glove unless it's a no-brainer like Royce Lewis. Their hitting development is squeezing every HR out of every prospect no matter what type of hitter they are. Only hitters like Lewis, Lee & Martin who are secure in their hitting have been able to break away from that mold. They traded away their top defensive catching & SS (premium position) prospects for nothing. Before they signed Vazquez our catching defense was in a shambles. Jeffers defense was below-average & floundering at catcher. None of our catching prospects are even rated & lean more towards offense, Any prospects of any good defensively were years away.  Catching like CF sub & SS were so bad that they had to go outside the organization to try to stop the bleeding, so they had to get Vazquez. 

I have no idea why they acquired Santana. I am a defense-minded person but I know that 1B is an offensive 1st position & least important defensively. Where no defense priority is needed they're putting priority. That tells me that they don't know where they need to put their defensive priority. That's all the evidence I need.

You can say family is important & believe it but if your actions show that it's a low priority it doesn't matter what you say you believe or think.