Taking Stock in Center Field

[darin617]

Just sign Aaron Hicks and call it a day. I know he's nothing special but he's cheaper and way better than Nick Gordon. Castro is better suited for super utility role/pinch runner.

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Put me in the camp of having plenty of decent options.  None are Byron Buxton at his peak performance (likely including Byron Buxton), but there look to be some capable players out there.  After Buxton, I would start with Castro but would look to include Austin Martin at the first opportunity.  I don’t have much faith in Nick Gordon to have sufficient offensive production to keep the job.  

I think calling Castro “Astudillo-esque” probably does him a bit of a disservice.  Astudillo became popular mostly because of his appearance and nickname of the Turtle along with a few quirky baseball skills, not so much because of his true achievements.  While Castro is “fun” because he makes some things happen on the basepaths, he seems to be (so far) a genuine major league contributor that is an excellent asset to the team.  That’s actually a lot more fun than a chubby guy with funky hair rounding the bases.  

I really get the skepticism with Gordon after first 6 weeks of ‘23! He started to get some XBH in May & then broke his leg May 16. Not a bunch of results to instill confidence.

I like the prospects of Martin’s future in CF & added IF depth if needed!

However, Gordon had 405 AB’s in ‘22 in the Show - he had 9 HR - 4 triples - 28 doubles. He hit .272 and started at 2B for Polanco to start - then LF - then 43 games in CF…..111 OPS+. If Martin did that in ‘24 everyone would kiss his feet…….Gordon is out of options and probably deserves a shot if he hits much in Spring Training, IMO.

[JD-TWINS]

31 minutes ago, darin617 said:

Just sign Aaron Hicks and call it a day. I know he's nothing special but he's cheaper and way better than Nick Gordon. Castro is better suited for super utility role/pinch runner.

Hicks had a very average 2023 (better than his previous few seasons though) had 106 OPS+ & .253 BA - 18 XBH in 269 AB’s.

Hicks 2022 had 85 OPS+ & .216 BA - 19 XBH in 384 AB’s.

Gordon broke his leg May 16, 2023 after a SLOW start.

Gordon in 2022 had 111 OPS+ & .272 BA - 41 XBH in 405 AB’s.

As they say, careful for what you wish for……..Gordon isn’t a tremendous, foolproof option, but Hicks should probably retire.

[jorgenswest]

3 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I don't dispute that Nick Gordon is a major league player, but even if he's a slightly better hitter than Willi, it doesn't make him more valuable than Castro. I would go so far as to say if the comparison were center field only, I'd still prefer Castro's combination of okay defense (in center), superior base running and comparable hitting (especially since he's a switch hitter) to what Gordon brings to the table. 

There is space for both. I prefer both to Farmer.

None are a certainty that they will perform as we hope. Gordon’s salary is one the Twins have been comfortable to DFA if he can’t approach his 2022 season. Castro has an option left if last year was an outlier. Will they DFA Farmer’s contract if he declines? Last year looked like he had improved but it is mostly the illusion of going from a full time player t a platoon role where his weakness against right handed pitching was a smaller ratio of the overall data. If it isn’t a salary they will DFA I do hope they trade him before the season.

[Fatbat]

3 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

There is space for both. I prefer both to Farmer.

None are a certainty that they will perform as we hope. Gordon’s salary is one the Twins have been comfortable to DFA if he can’t approach his 2022 season. Castro has an option left if last year was an outlier. Will they DFA Farmer’s contract if he declines? Last year looked like he had improved but it is mostly the illusion of going from a full time player t a platoon role where his weakness against right handed pitching was a smaller ratio of the overall data. If it isn’t a salary they will DFA I do hope they trade him before the season.

Farmer agreed to a 2 year deal with the team option on the 2nd yr. He will likely be traded but zero chance of DFA. Even Gordon would be traded for a low low level prospect before DFA. 

[DocBauer]

I've been an advocate for Gordon in the past, but the roster has been transitioning since about mid 2023 and is going to continue to do so. The FO despises letting depth go...almost to an extreme...but I'm having a hard time seeing a roster fit.

While taking a flier on Bubba makes sense, I have a hunch if it came to crunch time, and they needed help instead of, or in addition to, Martin, I think Helman/Kiersey would be added to the 40 man and brought up first. Just don't have a lot.of confidence Bubba is ever going to hit ML pitching. 

[jorgenswest]

7 minutes ago, Fatbat said:

Farmer agreed to a 2 year deal with the team option on the 2nd yr. He will likely be traded but zero chance of DFA. Even Gordon would be traded for a low low level prospect before DFA. 

Agree that they would try to trade both. Gordon’s contract is east to trade. Is Farmer’s?

[IndyTwinsFan]

5 hours ago, Karbo said:

I have no confidence in Gordon. I'd rather give that roster spot to Martin or Larnach or Miranda.

Based on last season, I also think that Gordon's presence on the roster this year is more than a little redundant.  Not a good situation for him.

[JD-TWINS]

3 hours ago, GV14218 said:

Really, enough already about counting on Buxton in 2024.  “Buxton is a significant question mark, as he's reached 100 games played in center field once in his career (2017) and hasn't reached 80 games played at the position since 2019.”  Oh, and let’s also add that he’s now 30 years old.  

Completely agree on Buxton……my HOPE is he plays CF 30-40 games……..80 at DH and he’ll get 425 AB’s and contribute. Ready to play CF 50% of the time in October!

[wabene]

I should probably apologize for my persistent thread drift. To the OP I guess my reluctance to post on what to do with center is because there is still so much uncertainty with the roster. If Buxton is going to fulfill his contract, this year it is crucial he proves they found the problem with his knee and he can learn to protect his body as he ages. I'm not going to speculate on how many games he needs to play. Success to me is a healthy Buxton starting in center to open the playoffs. How he gets there is less important.

The Twins really like Nick Gordon and Kyle Farmer which helps their causes. What will Gordon look like? Who knows. My worry here is if he falters do they let him hang around? It is a results business, act accordingly.

Martin has a skill set that could really fit this club. He needs to start in AAA. From there will he force his way into an opening? Martin stepping up would be huge 

[JD-TWINS]

17 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

I've been an advocate for Gordon in the past, but the roster has been transitioning since about mid 2023 and is going to continue to do so. The FO despises letting depth go...almost to an extreme...but I'm having a hard time seeing a roster fit.

While taking a flier on Bubba makes sense, I have a hunch if it came to crunch time, and they needed help instead of, or in addition to, Martin, I think Helman/Kiersey would be added to the 40 man and brought up first. Just don't have a lot.of confidence Bubba is ever going to hit ML pitching. 

Gordon is either traded or makes the team out of Spring Training. No options as you know……… Bubba though, he might be our 6th guy in CF……lots of injuries to get him on 26 man……maybe let him work on bat skills at AAA and as a real stretch, he’s a pinch running option in September?

[Doctor Gast]

7 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Just curious, if you have Castro AND Gordon on your opening day bench, who else do you have there? To me, it’s hard to find a roster spot for Gordon, but I could be wrong

They kept Gordon & he's out of options, so they'll give him every opportunity to be the 4th OF. Larnach & Wallner still have options so Castro could be given the LF job. If Gordon does well they still may trade him or if he doesn't do well they'll try to run him through waivers.

[Cory Engelhardt]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

They kept Gordon & he's out of options, so they'll give him every opportunity to be the 4th OF. Larnach & Wallner still have options so Castro could be given the LF job. If Gordon does well they still may trade him or if he doesn't do well they'll try to run him through waivers.

I’d be SHOCKED if Wallner were to go back to Saint Paul. SHOCKED. 
And why would a team carry a 4th outfielder that hits left handed when 2/3 of the outfield (Wallner and Kepler) also hit left handed?

And Castro as the starting lf? Seriously?

[Doctor Gast]

4 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

And Castro as the starting lf? Seriously?

Castro's time as starting LF is only until they figure what to do with Gordon. Wallner has a lot of raw talent in every aspect of the game that should be further developed. So a short time in AAA shouldn't hurt. What so frustrating about Wallner is all this time in the minors very little development has been realized in his defense, baserunning & even in his SOs.

[Cory Engelhardt]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Castro's time as starting LF is only until they figure what to do with Gordon. Wallner has a lot of raw talent in every aspect of the game that should be further developed. So a short time in AAA shouldn't hurt. What so frustrating about Wallner is all this time in the minors very little development has been realized in his defense, baserunning & even in his SOs.

I just can’t get behind this at all. I really like Castro as a utility type player, but he isn’t going to start over Wallner if Wallner is healthy 

[wabene]

15 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I just can’t get behind this at all. I really like Castro as a utility type player, but he isn’t going to start over Wallner if Wallner is healthy 

Yeah I forgot to mention Castro, but I also like him as a utility type. Fill in in center sure. If there is a long term need then I want someone else carrying the load. 

[William K Johnson]

I'm uncomfortable anytime, anywhere that Julien has a glove on.   The biggest advantage of him at first is that he does not have to throw the ball.   However, if Buxton, Wallner and Kepler are your outfield, Kiriloff is your first baseman.   

[JD-TWINS]

23 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I’d be SHOCKED if Wallner were to go back to Saint Paul. SHOCKED. 
And why would a team carry a 4th outfielder that hits left handed when 2/3 of the outfield (Wallner and Kepler) also hit left handed?

And Castro as the starting lf? Seriously?

Unless he’s hurt or Kepler is hurt or he strikes out in every AB in Spring Training, Wallner is the starting LF. No way he’s not on the Big Club April 1st.

Gordon being, what I would term as the 5th outfielder, is a possibility. He hits left handed and 75% of pitchers are right handed ……..hence the reason they may keep him.

If Buxton is playing in CF and a lefty is starting, Castro may get some starts in LF as a switch hitter available from the right side. Very probable.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

If Buxton is playing in CF and a lefty is starting, Castro may get some starts in LF as a switch hitter available from the right side. Very probable.

I would point out that one area where Castro was weak last year was against left handed pitching (.636 OPS), but I would expect Willi to get several starts in left vs. left handed pitchers, particularly since the young left handed hitters (Kirilloff, Wallner and Julien) were all far worse vs. lefties. Lifetime, Castro does not have severe platoon splits. 

[JD-TWINS]

Wallner will need days off occasionally and Castro seems to be the obvious best answer for that particularly v. LH pitching. (current roster obvious)