I'm officially done with Rocco

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

51 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Best argument would be for Lewis at SS over Correa, or maybe DH over Ozuna. But they're not better than Riley or Albies at this points in their careers. That Atlanta lineup is crazy good.

I would argue Ozuna or the outfield spots, could possible take over Keplers.  

 

[Nine of twelve]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

That Atlanta lineup is crazy good.

The Atlanta lineup is arguably one of the top five 1-9 lineups in the history of MLB.

[chpettit19]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

I would argue Ozuna or the outfield spots, could possible take over Keplers.  

 

I was going by the positions their teams currently let them play, so outfield wasn't an option. Julien doesn't beat Ozuna in his ability to start everyday at this point of his career because he can't hit lefties. I hope he gets a chance to improve that ability by getting real chances to hit against them, but at this point Ozuna is the better DH. Lewis you could make an argument for over Ozuna, sure.

But that's still just 3 guys, and Kepler is only in there because of a 2 month hot streak, and just as easily as one could argue for Lewis over Ozuna they could argue for Rosario over Kepler. So 2 or 3 Twins would make the Braves lineup, and that 6th or 7th guy you're suggesting they could drop for a Twin has 34 HRs this year.

Point of the post, though, was simply that comparing the Braves to the Twins right now isn't useful. I don't like some of the lineup decisions, or extreme platoon decisions, but saying the Twins should just run out the same 9 guys almost everyday like the Braves do is ignoring the vast difference in the talent in each of those lineups. There's no current Twin that would hit in the top 5 of the Braves lineup. Maybe not even the top 7. They're very different lineups that should be managed differently. I hope we can get to the point where they should do things like the Braves, but we're nowhere near that point right now.

[SwainZag]

2 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Just because a guy has played major league baseball and wears a major league uniform, that means he knows baseball and the strategy that goes along with it? I am going to say something now, and I don't intend it as a joke. There are thousands of posters on these blogs, and I guarantee you some of them know baseball strategy better than Rocco. I hate it when people say,  "well he knows more about baseball than we do".  Why does he? Cuz he looks the part? He has proven over the years he doesn't "get it".

Rocco has lived baseball for the basically his whole life.  From growing up playing, to the minors, majors and now coaching.  It's been his full time job for 25+ years.  Literally spent 1000s upon 1000s of hours around the game.  It's not just "looking the part." 

[Jocko87]

18 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

What is it that you think “gut feel” is based on?  Observation - numerical and anecdotal.  That’s statistics (and analytics). 

Gardy used them.  So did TK.  Gene Mauch certainly did.  I’m sure Billy Martin and Sam Mele also.  

Just because Rocco’s gut feel doesn’t line up with ours doesn’t make it instantly wrong.  He has a lot more info at his disposal than we do, plus I’m pretty sure he’s forgotten more about baseball than I’ll ever know.  
 

I've said it a million times.  Sabermetrics didn't change how baseball was managed, it just changed what data was used.  It's always been a game of using the right data at the right time.  Every manager in the history and future of baseball has to pick which factors are currently important to the situation. 

In 25 years Ruesse will break the news that the reason Correa wasn't available to pinch hit instead of Vazquez was because he went on an apple juice bender the night before and was hungover.  It will make everything make so much more sense.  (For the reply guys, I made that up, obviously)

[Jocko87]

2 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Just because a guy has played major league baseball and wears a major league uniform, that means he knows baseball and the strategy that goes along with it? I am going to say something now, and I don't intend it as a joke. There are thousands of posters on these blogs, and I guarantee you some of them know baseball strategy better than Rocco. I hate it when people say,  "well he knows more about baseball than we do".  Why does he? Cuz he looks the part? He has proven over the years he doesn't "get it".

Caping up for the keyboard warrior is a bold move.

 

[rv78]

37 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

Rocco has lived baseball for the basically his whole life.  From growing up playing, to the minors, majors and now coaching.  It's been his full time job for 25+ years.  Literally spent 1000s upon 1000s of hours around the game.  It's not just "looking the part." 

You would think he'd make less mistakes then. 

His qualifications to be a Manager at the major league level was that he played the game for 7 years and was a coach for 4 years. He never managed in the minors. According to that, there are hundreds of former players with the same qualifications. He inherited a team that set the HR record in his first season propelling them to a 101 win season. As some of you said, the manager isn't responsible for players performances so he shouldn't get credit for that season, yet he won MOY. Now when they lose games it isn't his fault because he isn't responsible for players performances, yet he is the one who makes the lineup, who pulls a pitcher, who decides who to pinch hit for and when, who uses whichever reliever and when. He's had 4+ years of learning on-the-job and we have the same mistakes being made and some of those being made even more than before. Quite honestly he's never "looked the part" as far as I'm concerned. All he did was get lucky in 2019 to be in the right place at the right time. 2020 was shortened the covid season so I'm not giving him credit for that division win. 2021 was a 5th place finish and 2022 was 3rd place. hardly worthy accomplishments. And we all know why they'll likely finish 1st in 2023, no competition in the division. So which season are you going to say he made a difference in since he started as Manager? ZERO!

[chpettit19]

11 minutes ago, rv78 said:

You would think he'd make less mistakes then. 

His qualifications to be a Manager at the major league level was that he played the game for 7 years and was a coach for 4 years. He never managed in the minors. According to that, there are hundreds of former players with the same qualifications. He inherited a team that set the HR record in his first season propelling them to a 101 win season. As some of you said, the manager isn't responsible for players performances so he shouldn't get credit for that season, yet he won MOY. Now when they lose games it isn't his fault because he isn't responsible for players performances, yet he is the one who makes the lineup, who pulls a pitcher, who decides who to pinch hit for and when, who uses whichever reliever and when. He's had 4+ years of learning on-the-job and we have the same mistakes being made and some of those being made even more than before. Quite honestly he's never "looked the part" as far as I'm concerned. All he did was get lucky in 2019 to be in the right place at the right time. 2020 was shortened the covid season so I'm not giving him credit for that division win. 2021 was a 5th place finish and 2022 was 3rd place. hardly worthy accomplishments. And we all know why they'll likely finish 1st in 2023, no competition in the division. So which season are you going to say he made a difference in since he started as Manager? ZERO!

The team did well so you won't give him credit. The team did poorly so you will give him blame. The team did well in a poor division so you won't give him credit. Hard to argue with that!

[Craig Arko]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The team did well so you won't give him credit. The team did poorly so you will give him blame. The team did well in a poor division so you won't give him credit. Hard to argue with that!

This is why there is an ‘ignore’ setting on messageboards.

[wabene]

3 hours ago, USAFChief said:

I also watch sports for entertainment and fun.

And for me, if I don't care about the outcome,  there's little to no entertainment or fun.

When I no longer care if the Twins win or lose, I will no longer pay any attention to the Twins. I hope that day never comes. I want losses to sting, because I want wins to be enjoyed. 

YMMV

I think I still  care, lol. Definitely not as mercurial as I was in my youth. Judging by how many times you have posted on this board, maybe I'm not as invested as you, Chief. Sports has a place in my life, but when the game is over it's over. Baseball is great because there is likely another game tomorrow.

[Rod Carews Birthday]

3 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Just because a guy has played major league baseball and wears a major league uniform, that means he knows baseball and the strategy that goes along with it? I am going to say something now, and I don't intend it as a joke. There are thousands of posters on these blogs, and I guarantee you some of them know baseball strategy better than Rocco. I hate it when people say,  "well he knows more about baseball than we do".  Why does he? Cuz he looks the part? He has proven over the years he doesn't "get it".

To answer your direct question. . . No, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he knows baseball and the strategy that goes along with it.  However, a guy with his experiences and skills is a pretty good place to start to look for a manager.  People like to rail against every decision that doesn’t work out in a game as though it is some sort of definitive proof that Rocco isn’t up to the job.  EVERY. SINGLE. TEAM. HAS. PLAYS. THAT. DON’T. WORK. OUT. IN. EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.  Does that mean that none of those managers know anything?  Should they all be fired?  

No one will agree with any manager or coach all of the time and Rocco is no different. I personally am neither pro-Baldelli nor anti-Baldelli.  I think he is basically OK.  There are just too many decisions out there to get them all right and the season is too long to think that they are looking at the situation in exactly the same way as we might.  Sometimes people manage in the moment.  Sometimes they are managing for later in the season.  

I lived in one of those jobs that occasionally garnered public criticism.  What I found was that the people who really did know how to do my job were the people who had the least criticism of it.  It was usually the people who thought they knew who were the loudest, and also the most off base.  I can’t name ten guys who I would like to be the next Twins manager, let alone guys who are posters on a blog site.  Next time there is an opening, they had better submit their resumes.  I hear it’s a good gig.  

[Jocko87]

55 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

This is why there is an ‘ignore’ setting on messageboards.

There is? Holy smokes where is it?

[Hubie29]

2 hours ago, SwainZag said:

Rocco has lived baseball for the basically his whole life.  From growing up playing, to the minors, majors and now coaching.  It's been his full time job for 25+ years.  Literally spent 1000s upon 1000s of hours around the game.  It's not just "looking the part." 

Doesn't mean anything.  Him and thousands of others.  

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, rv78 said:

You would think he'd make less mistakes then. 

His qualifications to be a Manager at the major league level was that he played the game for 7 years and was a coach for 4 years. He never managed in the minors. According to that, there are hundreds of former players with the same qualifications. He inherited a team that set the HR record in his first season propelling them to a 101 win season. As some of you said, the manager isn't responsible for players performances so he shouldn't get credit for that season, yet he won MOY. Now when they lose games it isn't his fault because he isn't responsible for players performances, yet he is the one who makes the lineup, who pulls a pitcher, who decides who to pinch hit for and when, who uses whichever reliever and when. He's had 4+ years of learning on-the-job and we have the same mistakes being made and some of those being made even more than before. Quite honestly he's never "looked the part" as far as I'm concerned. All he did was get lucky in 2019 to be in the right place at the right time. 2020 was shortened the covid season so I'm not giving him credit for that division win. 2021 was a 5th place finish and 2022 was 3rd place. hardly worthy accomplishments. And we all know why they'll likely finish 1st in 2023, no competition in the division. So which season are you going to say he made a difference in since he started as Manager? ZERO!

This is beautiful! I couldn't and didn't say it any better. 

[SwainZag]

1 hour ago, Hubie29 said:

Doesn't mean anything.  Him and thousands of others.  

I would say it gives them a little heads up and knowledge on strategy over your average blogger and forum poster.

[Jocko87]

Today's moves have got to ignite another 5 pages in this thread.

[Woof Bronzer]

11 hours ago, Alex said:

I think there's fair reason to be disenchanted with the Twins in the long term and frustrated, but the level of vitriol (and I don't just mean criticism) directed at the current front office and manager is really odd since they've put together the most sustained success this team has seen recently.   

I hear what you are saying and it's very fair.  But your definition of "sustained success" differs from mine.  It has literally been 20 years since this franchise has won a playoff series.  I can't name a single well-reputed GM or manager who never won a playoff game.  Maybe that's not fair but results matter no? 

Anyway.  The team is actually trending the right way, even a grump like me has to like the offense lately.  I'm just bracing myself like a jaded MN sports fan :)  

[Craig Arko]

Rocco manages better when he makes Lewis hit a grand slam. He should (officially) focus on perfecting this.

[Craig Arko]

12 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

There is? Holy smokes where is it?

Your account settings.