AFTER the lockout, what do the Twins need to do?

[cHawk]

Well obviously they still need pitching help. I would try to acquire young pitching (starting, preferably) with multiple years of control, as I don't see them going all in on 2022 (if they were going to, Dylan Bundy wouldn't have been their only pre-lockout acquisition). I don't want to give Story big money when he has played in Coors his entire career, so I'd look at a buy-low option at SS.

[beckmt]

10 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I think Dobnak will be in the opening day rotation. I'm not sure how I feel about that being the case, but I suspect it will happen (I'm not as down on Dobnak as many others here).

Dobnak is at best an AAAA pitcher, that is part of the 62 - 100 matra.  I would rather give starts to any of the 8 starters the Twins have in the upper minors who are real prospects.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

14 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

 

If the current team minus Berrios and Donaldson is even remotely close to a 42 win team we we should just do a complete rebuild.   

Looking at the state of the rotation, aren’t we?

[ashbury]

16 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

 

If the current team minus Berrios and Donaldson is even remotely close to a 42 win team we we should just do a complete rebuild.   

And then the FO can use the crash in revenue to justify further yearly cycles of inaction.

[dxpavelka]

On 12/9/2021 at 10:47 AM, Otto von Ballpark said:

No reason the Twins should artificially restrict their market like that! A non-living or non-human shortstop could prove to be a market inefficiency.

Hey, if we're gonna have non-human umpires, non-human players are the logical next step.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

11 hours ago, beckmt said:

Dobnak is at best an AAAA pitcher, that is part of the 62 - 100 matra.  I would rather give starts to any of the 8 starters the Twins have in the upper minors who are real prospects.

Dobnak isn't "at best" a AAAA pitcher but he does have somewhat limited upside and it's dangerous to start a season with him in the rotation.

I didn't say I wanted him there, I said I think he'll be there. I'd be far more comfortable with Dobnak in the #6 spot until/if he shows 2019 wasn't an aberration.

[Major League Ready]

10 hours ago, ashbury said:

And then the FO can use the crash in revenue to justify further yearly cycles of inaction.

Yes, because it's their secret wish to be as bad as possible,  Any FO office or any sophisticated business for that matter evaluates multiple different avenues to reach their goals.  Any competent FO is going to evaluate how various strategies impact their long-term future and sustainability.  Many fans put 90% of the weight on next year.  How much discussion was there here about the best strategy for returning to contention that was not solely focused on 2022.

How much better positioned are we in 2023 and beyond if we establish a couple more home grown SPs and transition Miranda and Martin onto the roster?  Obviously, there is no guarantee a couple SPs will step or that Miranda and Martin will transition to  MLB.  There is also no guarantee that free agent SPs or trades will work out.  Darvish sucked the last half of the year and Snell was not all that good the entire year.  The difference is that investing a year in developing these prospects that are ready has a much longer term impact.  

[Major League Ready]

12 hours ago, Sconnie said:

Looking at the state of the rotation, aren’t we?

I am not sure what you are asking.  If the position players are so bad that we are a 42 win team there is no hope.  Does not matter what you do with the rotation.  The 2022 teams are not coming anywhere near contention.  However, we were a 500 team the last 2 months of 2021 without Berrios so essentially the difference being contemplated is trading Donaldson who was a 3 WAR player.  Let's also keep in mind there were a few rookie SPs that had prominent roles on playoff teams last year.  If we are a 42 win team with Ober / Ryan / Pineda / Bundy and whatever combination of Jax / Winder / Balazovic or whoever they throw in, we need to blow up the whole team now.

[USAFChief]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:08 AM, Major League Ready said:

 

If the current team minus Berrios and Donaldson is even remotely close to a 42 win team we we should just do a complete rebuild.   

It's not "the current team."

He wants an IF of Miranda, Iglesias, Polanco and Kirilloff. OF is Martin, Buxton, and Lewis. Bench is Arraez, Celestino  and Gordon. Add Pineda to the starting pitching staff, Jax and Stashak to the pen.

 

That's the worst team in MLB, easily. They'd be lucky to win 42 games.

 

I want none of that, no matter what pie-in-the-sky projections about "2023 and beyond" anyone can conjure.

 

 

[Major League Ready]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

It's not "the current team."

He wants an IF of Miranda, Iglesias, Polanco and Kirilloff. OF is Martin, Buxton, and Lewis. Bench is Arraez, Celestino  and Gordon. Add Pineda to the starting pitching staff, Jax and Stashak to the pen.

 

That's the worst team in MLB, easily. They'd be lucky to win 42 games.

 

I want none of that, no matter what pie-in-the-sky projections about "2023 and beyond" anyone can conjure.

 

 

Pineda was part of the staff last year but I missed the part about Martin / Lewis.  That's premature.  Iglesias has to be better than Simmons was last year.  Projecting the last couple pieces of the BP is crystal ball stuff but you are right that there are better options for the BP.  There are also better options to maintain a decent product in 2022 while positioning the team for 2023 and beyond.

[specialiststeve]

Kind of depends on what the Twins are looking to do... win the division or look at it as a developmental season... 

Either way we need pitching. I would say our depth is at the corner IF position and OF. Getting a  good veteran to be at the top of our rotation should be priority number one.... to contend or to help mentor the up and comers. 

SS is a hard one.. Believe we "need" to have Lewis or Martin be our SS of the future either way but short term I would god with Iglesias. One year with a team option for year 2. Gives the young studs a year to develop... and contingency if they are not ready. 

Pretty clear to me that we are trying to emulate the Rays system so I would get ready for the "system" to start sending up arms.. with one or two vets two keep the rotation stable. 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

I am not sure what you are asking.  If the position players are so bad that we are a 42 win team there is no hope.  Does not matter what you do with the rotation.  The 2022 teams are not coming anywhere near contention.  However, we were a 500 team the last 2 months of 2021 without Berrios so essentially the difference being contemplated is trading Donaldson who was a 3 WAR player.  Let's also keep in mind there were a few rookie SPs that had prominent roles on playoff teams last year.  If we are a 42 win team with Ober / Ryan / Pineda / Bundy and whatever combination of Jax / Winder / Balazovic or whoever they throw in, we need to blow up the whole team now.

My take on the OP was it’s a whole rebuilt rotation from 21, they didn’t make any moves to actually fill it out with quality pitchers, we’re looking at a worse team in 22 than a 73 win ‘21 by quite a margin.

if we’re looking at a 60 win team with a 100m payroll should it stay in place or should it be a scorched earth rebuild?

if the FO doesn’t meaningfully improve this team should the earth scorching start with them?

We’re in alignment, you might be more optimistic than I am to how the 22 team might perform

[Major League Ready]

4 hours ago, Sconnie said:

My take on the OP was it’s a whole rebuilt rotation from 21, they didn’t make any moves to actually fill it out with quality pitchers, we’re looking at a worse team in 22 than a 73 win ‘21 by quite a margin.

if we’re looking at a 60 win team with a 100m payroll should it stay in place or should it be a scorched earth rebuild?

if the FO doesn’t meaningfully improve this team should the earth scorching start with them?

We’re in alignment, you might be more optimistic than I am to how the 22 team might perform

My point of view is that the 21 rotation was an absolute mess.  It won't take much for this rotation to be as good or better.  Maeda was not very good and let's not forget they played 500 ball after Berrios left.  I am assuming they will add a couple pitchers.  Maybe I am reading too much into Pineda not getting traded but it seems like both sides want Pineda to be a Twin.  I have no idea what they are thinking for the rest of the rotation but nothing they could do is taking the team from 60 to 90 wins.  If they spend another 30M the normal result would be 4 wins.  I just don't see how that would be so monumentally important.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, Sconnie said:

My take on the OP was it’s a whole rebuilt rotation from 21, they didn’t make any moves to actually fill it out with quality pitchers, we’re looking at a worse team in 22 than a 73 win ‘21 by quite a margin.

if we’re looking at a 60 win team with a 100m payroll should it stay in place or should it be a scorched earth rebuild?

if the FO doesn’t meaningfully improve this team should the earth scorching start with them?

We’re in alignment, you might be more optimistic than I am to how the 22 team might perform

I don't really disagree with this but honestly, I don't know what to expect from the pitching staff, particularly in the second half of 2022. It could be an unmitigated disaster OR we could see the likes of Balazovic, Woods-Richardson, or any number of guys in the high minors come up and be league average or better.

The inverse of that is Ryan and Ober were mirages in 2021 and the pitching staff spends most of the season with five Andrew Albers in it.

The potential variance of this pitching staff is enormous due to the weird circumstances of the past 24 months. We simply haven't seen any of these guys long enough to have any kind of read on their potential going into 2022. A bunch of these young guys could be on the cusp of greatness or a bunch of them could be six weeks from flaming out of baseball.

*shrugs*