Jump to content
  • Create Account

 

Wasn't there a few summers back where we wanted a Mets ace, and were basically told the price included Buxton, and predicably that went nowhere. They ended up being traded to Toronto for a package we could have matched and beaten.

I think you are mixing up a couple rumors.

 

It was a Syndergaard rumor in 2019 that included Buxton, and neither was traded.

 

But that same summer, the Mets acquired Stroman from Toronto for a price many fans thought their teams could have beaten. I don't remember if it was ever reported what the Jays may have asked the Twins for.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

While I'm in favor of much more actively trading the prospects, I'm not ready to close the book on these two just yet. Looking beyond his ERA, Wells looks like he's actually been pretty bad in his ver

This year's Rule 5 draft we lost Akil Baddo and Tyler Wells. So I thought I'd check to see how they were doing. 1st I checked on Baddo, hoping he was doing terrible so he'd be returned quickly to the

Baseball America had interesting piece a couple of weeks ago. Teams average only 11 prospects in a given year in their minor league systems that will have at least 3 year MLB careers. Considering each

 

Stressing another point, we often hold onto players when are worth something but have no clear path for making the team until they are worthless. Case in point Nick Gordon. I would've traded him at least 2 yrs. ago when he was worth something. Now I don't think you could give him away unless he has a great 2021, which I hope he does.

 

But even two years ago, Gordon's value was minimal. Sure, you could have gotten something, maybe a middling reliever at the trade deadline, but the team already had Lewin Diaz filling that same role of getting that middling reliever. Seems to me you'd only want one Sergio Romo at most. Might as well play your hand with the other 'barely-a-prospect' player and see if he breaks out.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I confess to exaggerating for the purpose of making my point. The type of trade you suggest would almost certainly make the Twins better but it would almost certainly make the other team worse. Therefore the other team's GM would not make such a trade, especially if the player(s) the Twins offer are likely to become available via waivers or Rule 5 anyway.

If you read my other posts, you'd know that I wouldn't offer worthless players in a trade. I agree with you that GMs wouldn't be interested unless they see something that others don't. To rephrase myself, I'd trade 2 or more lesser value players for a greater valued player. Ideally from an excess area for an area of need. Teams do that all the time. That is how I'd help make room and improve the quality of the 40 man.

Link to post
Share on other sites

But even two years ago, Gordon's value was minimal. Sure, you could have gotten something, maybe a middling reliever at the trade deadline, but the team already had Lewin Diaz filling that same role of getting that middling reliever. Seems to me you'd only want one Sergio Romo at most. Might as well play your hand with the other 'barely-a-prospect' player and see if he breaks out.

I dicovered BTV (baseball trade values) last year, I like to go on there and play around w/ trades. You can argue some on some trade values because we all (including teams) have our biases and over value some players. BTV IMO give unbias trade values based on talent, years of control and salary. Gordon trade value last year was a little over 5, I imagine it was a bit higher 2 years ago, now he's valued at around 1. Like you know Gordon has a pedigree, was drafted high and many fans had high hopes for him that could give him some value to some teams. Normally I wouldn`t trade him one to one, I'd include him with other higher valued players.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

 

I think you are mixing up a couple rumors.

 

It was a Syndergaard rumor in 2019 that included Buxton, and neither was traded.

 

But that same summer, the Mets acquired Stroman from Toronto for a price many fans thought their teams could have beaten. I don't remember if it was ever reported what the Jays may have asked the Twins for.

Yes i was.

 

Thanks, and good job breaking it into component rumors.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dr. Gast

Below are minor league statistics for two players in the Twins farm system. Both had played four seasons and reached Fort Myers. Both are outfielders. Which would you protect?

Player A Player B

HR 21 21

RBI 131 93

SB 61 47

AVG .274 .249

OBP .346 .357

OPS .746 .780

I tried to make it look pretty but failed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dr. Gast

Below are minor league statistics for two players in the Twins farm system. Both had played four seasons and reached Fort Myers. Both are outfielders. Which would you protect?

Player A Player B

HR 21 21

RBI 131 93

SB 61 47

AVG .274 .249

OBP .346 .357

OPS .746 .780

If you read my posts, you would know. Both, of course I'd have to look at underlying conditions. If you knew me, you'd know I'm not a slave to stats.
Link to post
Share on other sites

We have many prospects and cannot protect them all but Rule 5 players that become stars are relatively rare though they do hurt when it happens. While I liked Baddoo, it is way too early to say he will be a star. After the first month, teams will start to learn his weaknesses and begin to exploit them. If he will be a good player, he will then have to make the adjustments to be one. He may do so and I hope he does- even if only because his name is fun to announce and I have done some PA announcing. But he hasn't played above A ball so we'll see.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Dr. Gast

Below are minor league statistics for two players in the Twins farm system. Both had played four seasons and reached Fort Myers. Both are outfielders. Which would you protect?

Player A Player B
HR 21 21
RBI 131 93
SB 61 47
AVG .274 .249
OBP .346 .357
OPS .746 .780

 

If, after 4 minor league seasons they are only at Ft Myers, something may be wrong with the team's system. I may look to trade both or protect only 1. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If, after 4 minor league seasons they are only at Ft Myers, something may be wrong with the team's system. I may look to trade both or protect only 1.

 

If you read my posts, you would know. Both, of course I'd have to look at underlying conditions. If you knew me, you'd know I'm not a slave to stats.

Player A is Celestino and Player B is Baddoo. Picking both is a cop out. And the Twins did protect just one - Celestino.
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

You can trade for superior talent with your mediocre prospects. The superior talent though has a price tag the other team doesn’t want to pay, see Miami. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

With the state of Baltimore and Detroit....who really cares? Badoo was prolly never gonna beat out the Fabulous Jake Cave, the multi talented Kyle Garlick, or ever challenge top MLB prospects such as Kiriloff, Rooker, Celestino, or even Broxton. Plus we have ultimate swiss army knife J.T. Riddle waiting in the wings. To be a top front office executive, you can't be afraid to make difficult decisions. I'm not sure if I can recall Wells ever being a threat to make the 40 man either. Badoo is a flash in the pan...we won't hear about him after May 1st. Do not worry fellow Twins Fan, D.F and T.L have got every base covered.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

While I wish Baddoo and Wells nothing but the best, if they continue to succeed, this forum will be unusable without blocking a pretty decent chunk of posters. Every thread will include numerous references to them as proof that random internet forum members are smarter at managing an MLB organization than the people that actually have the job.

 

Never mind inconvenient details . . . like the fact that trading mediocre depth for superior talent is something that never happens, zero out of 30 clubs are able to use such a strategy . . . all 30 clubs leave prospects with some degree of upside unprotected, unless their system is terrible . . . Baddoo was ranked by FG as Detroit's #18 prospect before the season, and some other sources had him even lower . . . 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

Ignoring comments out of necessity seems like a far less drastic solution than shutting down conversation entirely, which is what an appeal to authority attempts to do. This is after all, a fan forum, designed to encourage fan discussion/interaction. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignoring comments out of necessity seems like a far less drastic solution than shutting down conversation entirely, which is what an appeal to authority attempts to do. This is after all, a fan forum, designed to encourage fan discussion/interaction.

 

I want to personally thank you for your edifying response!
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

This whole topic is a complete nothingburger, 100% hindsight bias and fantasy thinking.

 This is not 100% hindsight- I've been advocating this for well over a year and posting it because I could fore see this problem (losing players via rule 5). I posted this thread because I haven`t seen any reaction and this problem will only get worse

 

This isn't fantasy thinking- Using SD as an example, they been using this policy for years. Not only making great draft picks, they have been upgrading their prospect thus later being able to upgrade their  40 man in which they can upgrade their active roster by trading.  W/O creating such a great farm system they could've pulled off these massive trading deals. They haven't swallowed the narrative that's there no trades out there.Yes we don`t have the farm system that SD had or has (that needs to be worked on for years) but we could've easily pulled off at least one (which I'll discuss more in depth later). This the only way a small market can compete with the Evil Empire (large market teams)

 

Very few trades the FO has intiated, most are offerings from others teams, when we  were selling. The only exception that I can remember is the Romo and Dyer trades. The narrative that there is no trades out there is an excuse for not procuring, hating to negociate and over-valuing  big bats/ weak gloves. There have been a great deal of trades out there if you only look. PIT alone had many opportunities for pitching upgades. PIT has a talent for finding pitching but don't know how to develop or coach  them, every pitcher that left there w/ poor stats blossomed else where. They were motivated to trade most of their pitching. Tailon and Musgrove were available and having Sheldon as a contact would've facilitate the transaction. Tailon and especially Musgrove have dominated this spring so far. I've advocated for Musgrove for awhile, he was also offered to us. The problem was that they wanted Larnach, which is a fair trade but understandablly FO didn't want to give him up and they wrote off the trade. The thing is that they shouldn't have given up but counter offered with several lesser valued prospects. SD pursued the trade and closed the deal that included 5 prospects that together didn't equal 1 Larnach. This transaction would not have  involved hard negociations but they chose not to. IMO they over value their big bats/ weak gloves so any fair deals that can be negociated are out right refused. They draft, protect     and hoard this type of player. Their priority needs to change.

 

I've been raised to think for myself. To observe, to look for unbias info or any underlying conditions and make a rational conclusion  and solutions- not to believe everything that I`m told or think inside the box that people want to put me in. I'm trying to be patient with this   front      office because I like the way they develop pitchers and hitters. I created this thread not  to criticize but to help improve this team and come up some solutions.   But drivlikejehu your comment has made me lose hope and patience w/ this FO. I don't see them taking the next step of making shrewd and bold trades to compete in the PS. Now I wish that Levine had taken that job in Philly and pursue Andy Macphail. He wasn't afraid to make necessary trades.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...