Coronavirus

[Tomj14]

 

The U.S. has approx. 4% of the world’s population, and has approx. 25% of the coronavirus deaths. Not sure what that says specifically, but I have my opinions on that.

Could it be that most of the world population hasn't been exposed to the rest of the world?, could it be that China is lying about the deaths? could it be the US is counting too many deaths? Could it be that poorer countries don't have the infrastructure to even know how most people are dying?

Could it be that other places didn't send sick people to nursing homes? Could it be Americans aren't willing to do what it takes?, Could it be Trump because Orange Man bad, could it be politics in American?, could it be the Media in American? Could it be that the US citizen are less healthy? could it be the modern Medicine of the US allows people that may have died in other countries to live longer, and Covid hit that population harder? Could it be that Covid left the protesters alone because it was hitting the bars and beaches?

Or maybe it is a big of a combination of everything

 

The one reason I won't accept is Americans are unwilling to do what is needed because that could be considered racist since millions of Americans in the last month have ignored social distancing and wearing masks.

 

[Squirrel]

 

Could it be that most of the world population hasn't been exposed to the rest of the world?, could it be that China is lying about the deaths? could it be the US is counting too many deaths? Could it be that poorer countries don't have the infrastructure to even know how most people are dying?

Could it be that other places didn't send sick people to nursing homes? Could it be Americans aren't willing to do what it takes?, Could it be Trump because Orange Man bad, could it be politics in American?, could it be the Media in American? Could it be that the US citizen are less healthy? could it be the modern Medicine of the US allows people that may have died in other countries to live longer, and Covid hit that population harder? Could it be that Covid left the protesters alone because it was hitting the bars and beaches?

Or maybe it is a big of a combination of everything

 

The one reason I won't accept is Americans are unwilling to do what is needed because that could be considered racist since millions of Americans in the last month have ignored social distancing and wearing masks.

okay ... way to make it about everything under the sun ... heh ... it could be a lot of those things ... however ... most of the 'big' countries in the world have been affected. Most everyone handled things different. It's a large gap to cover from 4% to 25%, even if China were honest about deaths. Simply put, we have a disproportionate number of deaths, and I don't think it balances out much ... maybe it drops to 15% ... it's still disproportionate. And it likely has to do with a lot of what you said. Nonetheless, we have a disproportionate amount of deaths. And yes, I think it has to do, in part, with Americans not doing their part. But so far we haven't seen a spike from the protests as was expected. It may still come. But we have seen spikes in places that opened early and protocols, such as mask wearing, aren't not being followed.

[biggentleben]

 

okay ... way to make it about everything under the sun ... heh ... it could be a lot of those things ... however ... most of the 'big' countries in the world have been affected. Most everyone handled things different. It's a large gap to cover from 4% to 25%, even if China were honest about deaths. Simply put, we have a disproportionate number of deaths, and I don't think it balances out much ... maybe it drops to 15% ... it's still disproportionate. And it likely has to do with a lot of what you said. Nonetheless, we have a disproportionate amount of deaths. And yes, I think it has to do, in part, with Americans not doing their part. But so far we haven't seen a spike from the protests as was expected. It may still come. But we have seen spikes in places that opened early and protocols, such as mask wearing, aren't not being followed.

 

The big reason is that heavy use of masks at rallies and that the protests and rallies have been predominantly outdoors. The virus is airborne, but through droplets that require surface transmission. Lingering in artificial air of an indoor facility is more feasible than outdoors, nevermind the surfaces/seats/etc. of indoor rallies. That's the big reason for the lack of positive cases based at protests.

[Tomj14]

 

okay ... way to make it about everything under the sun ... heh ... it could be a lot of those things ... however ... most of the 'big' countries in the world have been affected. Most everyone handled things different. It's a large gap to cover from 4% to 25%, even if China were honest about deaths. Simply put, we have a disproportionate number of deaths, and I don't think it balances out much ... maybe it drops to 15% ... it's still disproportionate. And it likely has to do with a lot of what you said. Nonetheless, we have a disproportionate amount of deaths. And yes, I think it has to do, in part, with Americans not doing their part. But so far we haven't seen a spike from the protests as was expected. It may still come. But we have seen spikes in places that opened early and protocols, such as mask wearing, aren't not being followed.

Not sure why you have such a terrible view of the US.

US (332 million population, 126K deaths)

 

UK (67 million population, 55K deaths) is 20% the size of the US but has 34% of the deaths the US has.

Italy (61 million population, 43K deaths) is 18% the size of the US but has 27% of the deaths the US has

France (67 million population, 34K deaths) is 20% the size of the US but has 23% of the deaths the US has

Spain (47 million population, 30K deaths) is 14% the size of the US but has 22% of the deaths the US has

Mexico (129 million population, 25K deaths) is 38% the size of the US only has 20% of the deaths the US has but also has a much more population as a whole that might not exposed to it.

Brazil (212 million population, 55K deaths) is 63% the size of the US only has 43% of the deaths the US has, but is on the rise and also has a huge poor population that might not be as exposed to it.

 

I don't trust any of the numbers coming out of China or Russia, and can't explain India, Pakistan and Indonesia, other I have heard from Indian co-workers that many of those people have no idea that Covid is even happening and aren't wearing masks and social distancing.

 

Looking at the countries with the most deaths the US doesn't look too bad and dare I say at this point WE have done better than most countries.

 

Don't be fooled by the media, by the amount of positive tests happening (because positive tests without hospitalizations are a good thing), pay attention attention to the hospitalization rates, and yes there are a few places that are rising a bit but we knew this would happen a little spike here or there, you know why we knew this would happen? Because there isn't a frickin vaccine or cure for Covid and there is NO WAY to stop it, we can only hope to slow it down and we have done that.

 

Of course slowing it down didn't come without a cost, millions lost their job, 10's or 100's thousands of companies went out of business, basically lost a quarter a year of school for the kids so far, people missed/skipped cancer screenings, Kids missed/skipped other vaccines (check out the measles), we lost many good people to depression, alcohol sales skyrocketed (that can't be good), elderly people lost the physical connect with their families, domestic violence rates have risen.

 

 

No aimed at you SQUIRREL, but his is website that relies heavily on stats, numbers and critical analysis and when it comes to Covid people just just completely ignore that and go to feelings.

 

 

 

[Tomj14]

 

 

The big reason is that heavy use of masks at rallies and that the protests and rallies have been predominantly outdoors. The virus is airborne, but through droplets that require surface transmission. Lingering in artificial air of an indoor facility is more feasible than outdoors, nevermind the surfaces/seats/etc. of indoor rallies. That's the big reason for the lack of positive cases based at protests.

3 of the biggest spikes are in Dallas, Houston and Miami, didn't all those have protests? Did thos protesters wear less masks than say MN and NY?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not sure why you have such a terrible view of the US.

US (332 million population, 126K deaths)

 

UK (67 million population, 55K deaths) is 20% the size of the US but has 34% of the deaths the US has.

Italy (61 million population, 43K deaths) is 18% the size of the US but has 27% of the deaths the US has

France (67 million population, 34K deaths) is 20% the size of the US but has 23% of the deaths the US has

Spain (47 million population, 30K deaths) is 14% the size of the US but has 22% of the deaths the US has

Mexico (129 million population, 25K deaths) is 38% the size of the US only has 20% of the deaths the US has but also has a much more population as a whole that might not exposed to it.

Brazil (212 million population, 55K deaths) is 63% the size of the US only has 43% of the deaths the US has, but is on the rise and also has a huge poor population that might not be as exposed to it.

 

I don't trust any of the numbers coming out of China or Russia, and can't explain India, Pakistan and Indonesia, other I have heard from Indian co-workers that many of those people have no idea that Covid is even happening and aren't wearing masks and social distancing.

 

Looking at the countries with the most deaths the US doesn't look too bad and dare I say at this point WE have done better than most countries.

 

Don't be fooled by the media, by the amount of positive tests happening (because positive tests without hospitalizations are a good thing), pay attention attention to the hospitalization rates, and yes there are a few places that are rising a bit but we knew this would happen a little spike here or there, you know why we knew this would happen? Because there isn't a frickin vaccine or cure for Covid and there is NO WAY to stop it, we can only hope to slow it down and we have done that.

 

Of course slowing it down didn't come without a cost, millions lost their job, 10's or 100's thousands of companies went out of business, basically lost a quarter a year of school for the kids so far, people missed/skipped cancer screenings, Kids missed/skipped other vaccines (check out the measles), we lost many good people to depression, alcohol sales skyrocketed (that can't be good), elderly people lost the physical connect with their families, domestic violence rates have risen.

 

 

No aimed at you SQUIRREL, but his is website that relies heavily on stats, numbers and critical analysis and when it comes to Covid people just just completely ignore that and go to feelings.

I agree with much of this, I don’t believe Russia or China either.

 

The cost of the lock down was very high, economically, socially, and medically, and my fear in vain, because instead of “the dance”, we gave up and just took the reins off.

 

Regarding hospitalization per positive tests, we can’t really know how good that is in the long run, yet. Meaning we see some anecdotal co-effects that are not yet understood.

 

Your right, it can’t be stopped ever, even with a vaccine, we’re living in a world with Covid-19 for the rest of human existence. We can’t stay locked down forever. We do however need a coherent and coordinated plan to continue to slow the spread and protect the vulnerable. We don’t know who all of the vulnerable people are yet.

[Tomj14]

 

Your right, it can’t be stopped ever, even with a vaccine, we’re living in a world with Covid-19 for the rest of human existence. We can’t stay locked down forever. We do however need a coherent and coordinated plan to continue to slow the spread and protect the vulnerable. We don’t know who all of the vulnerable people are yet.

I think solution starts with the media be honest about what is happening good and bad.

I think the solution starts with the media calling out both sides equally.

I think the solution stars with protecting the elderly, diabetic and Obese. (that is the top 3 the CDC said today)

We have smart people throwing out stuff that is factually incorrect and that is the kind thing that needs to be fixed.

 

Have a good weekend!

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

I think solution starts with the media be honest about what is happening good and bad.

I think the solution starts with the media calling out both sides equally.

I think the solution stars with protecting the elderly, diabetic and Obese. (that is the top 3 the CDC said today)

We have smart people throwing out stuff that is factually incorrect and that is the kind thing that needs to be fixed.

 

Have a good weekend!

I work in the media that has been reporting on this virus for more than three months. I've reported pure, unadulterated numbers. The experience has been the most depressing of my entire life, to be fully honest.

 

I don't make comments about the virus that I haven't spent countless hours researching before reporting.

 

I would appreciate refraining from the media comments, though. This has been a horrific time to work in the media industry.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Dr @Bob_Wachter shared this. He’s a very good follow

[Tomj14]

 

I work in the media that has been reporting on this virus for more than three months. I've reported pure, unadulterated numbers. The experience has been the most depressing of my entire life, to be fully honest.

 

I don't make comments about the virus that I haven't spent countless hours researching before reporting.

 

I would appreciate refraining from the media comments, though. This has been a horrific time to work in the media industry.

Congrats you are one of the few in the media that don't say Covid headlines without context (good or bad) and put in the time not to slant stuff the way you believe it should be, but overall the media does a terrible job at Covid Coverage.

 

Look at the graph above this post, what does it mean other than to scare people into wearing masks? (people should wear masks, but not by scare tactics).

Why is California colored green on that map, their numbers aren't going down, they are going up?

direct quote from the LA Times on Saturday

 

"The state has seen a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations in recent weeks that officials attribute to a variety of factors including people increasingly leaving home; holding social gatherings; failing to wear face coverings; outbreaks in nursing homes, prisons, newly opened workplaces and overcrowded homes; and recent political protests."

 

One could put a map or graph up showing the debt being accrued by states with tighter lock downs due to Covid compared to the debt by states with looser regulations on Covid. But again it doesn't mean a darn thing without context.

 

And as a media person you should be calling out other media folks coverage on Covid that are doing a terrible job, because they are making all of the others in that media, look like really bad in their coverage of Covid.

 

Just remember the media coverage of Coivd was OK and encouraged  to protest the last few weeks, but it wasn't/isn't OK to protest for the states to re-open

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Congrats you are one of the few in the media that don't say headlines without context (good or bad) and put in the time not to slant stuff the way believe it should be, but overall the media does a terrible job.

 

Look at the graph above this post, what does it mean other than to scare people into wearing masks? (people should wear masks, but not by scare tactics).

Why is California colored green on that map, their numbers aren't going down, they are going up?

direct quote from the LA Times on Saturday

 

"The state has seen a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations in recent weeks that officials attribute to a variety of factors including people increasingly leaving home; holding social gatherings; failing to wear face coverings; outbreaks in nursing homes, prisons, newly opened workplaces and overcrowded homes; and recent political protests."

 

One could put a map or graph up showing the debt being accrued by states with tighter lock downs compared to the debt by states with looser regulations. But again it doesn't mean a darn thing without context.

 

And as a media person you should be calling out other media folks that are doing a terrible job, because they are making all of the others in that media, look like really bad.

It is really no wonder why the country is at everybody throats, the media (and politicians) is pitting people against each other, white/black, male/female, LGBQ/Straight, mask wears/non-mask wearers, there is no attempt to say point out ALL the common ground in people they only point out the differences.

(Just remember is was OK and encouraged to protest the last few weeks, but it wasn't/isn't OK to protest for the states to re-open)

Mod note, let’s keep to topic. Covid media coverage is fine, but please don’t expand beyond Covid.

 

Maybe we need to define “Media” vs. “News”. Ben works in News. News needs to be vetted, frequently News is behind a paywall.

 

I quoted above Dr Bob who’s Media, not all media is vetted. Frequently media is not behind a paywall. I quoted Dr Bob because he’s an expert. He was referred to me by News, and seems like a trustworthy source to me. Everyone should view the lens however. He’s the head of UCSF medical dept. and trying to get everyone to wear masks.

 

If you look at the legend of the info graphic, it describes the rule being mapped for mask wearers. The 25% drop being indicated is sum across all of the states with the same color code that indicates the mask rule. Inside of the states, some are up and some are down.

 

Same with the brown ones. Some are up and some are down.

 

Here’s the original story BTW.

 

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-19-coronavirus-face-masks-infection-rates-20200624.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

[Tomj14]

 

Mod note, let’s keep to topic. Covid media coverage is fine, but please don’t expand beyond Covid.

Maybe we need to define “Media” vs. “News”. Ben works in News. News needs to be vetted, frequently News is behind a paywall.

I quoted above Dr Bob who’s Media, not all media is vetted. Frequently media is not behind a paywall. I quoted Dr Bob because he’s an expert. He was referred to me by News, and seems like a trustworthy source to me. Everyone should view the lens however. He’s the head of UCSF medical dept. and trying to get everyone to wear masks.

If you look at the legend of the info graphic, it describes the rule being mapped for mask wearers. The 25% drop being indicated is sum across all of the states with the same color code that indicates the mask rule. Inside of the states, some are up and some are down.

Same with the brown ones. Some are up and some are down.

Here’s the original story BTW.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/covid-19-coronavirus-face-masks-infection-rates-20200624.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Cleaned up my prior post to only include Covid.

As for the graphic you posted, you don't think the highlighting of the numbers was misleading at best?

 

I am not saying masks are bad or they shouldn't be wore, what I am saying is that graph is horribly misleading and set up for a reason to scare people. Again all numbers should be posted with some context?

 

First line from article "Coronavirus cases seem to be rising in states with relaxed policies on wearing masks"

 

Seem is the key word, because when you dig into the numbers and places, the mask policy seems to only be part of the issue, I am not saying it can't possibly hurt to wear them but it does seem others things seem to be a play as well.

It also seems that the states that were hit hard in the nursing homes earlier have seen things go down and some of the states that weren't hit as hard earlier are being hit hard in the nursing home now(Texas for example is getting destroyed in nursing home and assisted living type places) it would be nice for somebody to dig deeper into this (the news not you )

 

 

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Cleaned up my prior post to only include Covid.

As for the graphic you posted, you don't think the highlighting of the numbers was misleading at best?

 

I am not saying masks are bad or they shouldn't be wore, what I am saying is that graph is horribly misleading and set up for a reason to scare people. Again all numbers should be posted with some context?

 

First line from article "Coronavirus cases seem to be rising in states with relaxed policies on wearing masks"

 

Seem is the key word, because when you dig into the numbers and places, the mask policy seems to only be part of the issue, I am not saying it can't possibly hurt to wear them but it does seem others things seem to be a play as well.

It also seems that the states that were hit hard in the nursing homes earlier have seen things go down and some of the states that weren't hit as hard earlier are being hit hard in the nursing home now(Texas for example is getting destroyed in nursing home and assisted living type places) it would be nice for somebody to dig deeper into this (the news not you )

absolutely - we should all be critical consumers of information, and agreed 1000% that masks are only part of the equation. It's so difficult to see the big picture with such disaggregated and disjointed state by state, county by county, and city by city rules and impacts, compared to broad brush analysis.

[a-wan]

It is pretty damn simple. A cloth mask that actually covers your nose and mask limits respiratory droplets. Less droplets, less virus particles.

[ashbury]

Ever since the pandemic started getting serious, I have been interested in seeing year-over-year total death numbers in the US, because of the vagaries of counting covid-19 deaths in realtime. Today, I located a peer-reviewed paper, published under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Assocation (JAMA), specifically JAMA Internal Medicine. The full text of the report is here: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2767980

 

As I would have surmised, the conclusion drawn by the study is that deaths are being under-reported, not over-reported. The reasons for this will be the source for future studies, no doubt. But compared to a baseline of past years, the number of "excess deaths" during March through May was calculated to be 122,300. The total death toll reported in the media for that period was 95 235, for cases directly identified as covid-19, i.e. a 28% difference. The methodology has been used for a century or more, to gauge the effect of past epidemic such as the flu.

 

The difference is not of a scale that indicates everything we thought we knew is wrong. But, for me, it confirms that pinpointing the causes of death is difficult when the health care system begins to be overwhelmed, and inadequate testing resources causes some covid-19 deaths to be misattributed.

[Cap'n Piranha]

In 2010, there were approximately 5M people over the age of 85 in the US (according to the census)--we can safely assume that number is probably up, but lets say it's at least static.  That means only about 1.5% to 2% of the population is 85 or over, and yet they represent almost 31% of deaths in the Feb 12 through May 18 time period, according to the CDC.  Also according to the CDC, there's a 1 in 7 chance that someone 85 or older dies in a given year from any cause, which means we would expect almost 700k people over the age of 85 to die every year--in the 97 day period quoted above, that would become 186k deaths, which is about 11x as many as died from Covid-19 in that timeframe.  Even Imperial College London, which in March suggested the insane 2.2M Covid-19 death number for the US (i.e. not a source attempting to downplay Covd-19), admits perhaps as many as 2/3 of the people who die of Covid-19 were likely to die soon anyways.

 

Taken further, a full 80% of deaths have come from people over 65, while less than 3% have come from people 44 or under.  in 2010, 60ish percent of the population was 44 or under--applied to the estimated population of 328M today, that means in this 3 month period, less than 1500 out of almost 200 MILLION died of Covid (assuming the numbers are correct, and don't include motorcycle deaths), which means if you're 44 or under, you had a 99.99925% chance of not dying from Covid-19.  What is happening is that a group of people at almost no risk from Covid-19 are being forced to act as if they are at substantial risk, which makes no sense.  Quarantines and lockdowns make sense if you, or someone you must come into contact with regularly, are elderly or have a known medical condition, but there are literally tens of millions of people who do not fall into either of those categories.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e1.htm

 

https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-09.pdf

 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/data-analytics/florida-covid-19-fatalities-data-included-man-who-died-in-motorcycle-accident.html

 

https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51979654

 

 

[In My La Z boy]

There were 200 cases yesterday in my State of over 3M citizens - there were 12 cases yesterday in my County of over 150K citizens. The level of fear and angst in the media - pounding and pounding us into submission makes me think there is an election this fall?
Interesting, those of us following the rules are being told to follow more rules, and those of us creating havoc and riots are being allowed create more havoc and riots. A study came out today and it says a majority of American citizens believe that 9% of us have died due to coronavirus. CNN would call that a success. Great Britain media fell a little short - UK citizens think 7% of them have died. 
I am not, nor is anyone else here suggesting this virus isn't what it is. I am suggesting that politico's and there accomplices in the media are driving this world is coming to an end narrative for electioneering purposes. 

[Craig Arko]

 

A study came out today and it says a majority of American citizens believe that 9% of us have died due to coronavirus. CNN would call that a success. Great Britain media fell a little short - UK citizens think 7% of them have died. 
 

I'd be fascinated to read this study. Can you provide a source?

[Squirrel]

 

There were 200 cases yesterday in my State of over 3M citizens - there were 12 cases yesterday in my County of over 150K citizens. The level of fear and angst in the media - pounding and pounding us into submission makes me think there is an election this fall?
Interesting, those of us following the rules are being told to follow more rules, and those of us creating havoc and riots are being allowed create more havoc and riots. A study came out today and it says a majority of American citizens believe that 9% of us have died due to coronavirus. CNN would call that a success. Great Britain media fell a little short - UK citizens think 7% of them have died. 
I am not, nor is anyone else here suggesting this virus isn't what it is. I am suggesting that politico's and there accomplices in the media are driving this world is coming to an end narrative for electioneering purposes. 

 

It would be nice if using facts and figures and studies to support an opinion, that you provide it. What study are  you referring to? (There are lots of them.) And I'm not aware of CNN saying 'this is a success', and I'm not sure what you mean by success, or this, what's a success? ... but then, I don't listen to CNN. As for the world coming to an end ... given where the climate change sits and the deniers of that science blocking reform and change, I'd say it is. Probably not tomorrow, and probably not in my lifetime, but yes, without change, the world is ending, in my opinion, but I'm not running around screaming 'The sky is falling!', either, but working to support change in that area. But this isn't the thread for that discussion. As for 'world coming to an end' narrative related to your claims ... who is saying this? Again, what have you read about this, or is it just your opinion of how others around you are reacting to the virus and the temporary restrictions this has caused? I guess everyone responds differently. I'm not scared, but I'm doing my due diligence, reading what I can of what experts are saying, trying to follow the research, and following the protocols set up by my city and state officials, and my employers, and internally scoffing at others who don't, but go on my way. It is what it is, and this, too, shall pass.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm not scared, but I'm doing my due diligence, reading what I can of what experts are saying, trying to follow the research, and following the protocols set up by my city and state officials, and my employers, and internally scoff at others who don't, but go on my way.

This. I wear a mask because it's easy and shown to be effective. I keep my distance from other people because it's effective and respectful. I sanitize my hands when returning to the car because it takes all of five seconds to do.

 

This isn't fear, it's taking easy, simple precautions to not become part of the quagmire that is this virus and its effects on our economy and healthcare systems.

[In My La Z boy]

 

I'd be fascinated to read this study. Can you provide a source?

Do not know how to link but here you go;

Kekstcnc.com

It is the covid-19 opinion tracker edition 4 - this particular opinion statistic is found on page 24

Kekst is a very reputable business polling firm, primarily used to help business. You will find this interesting. 

[In My La Z boy]

 

It would be nice if using facts and figures and studies to support an opinion, that you provide it. What study are  you referring to? (There are lots of them.) And I'm not aware of CNN saying 'this is a success', and I'm not sure what you mean by success, or this, what's a success? ... but then, I don't listen to CNN. As for the world coming to an end ... given where the climate change sits and the deniers of that science blocking reform and change, I'd say it is. Probably not tomorrow, and probably not in my lifetime, but yes, without change, the world is ending, in my opinion, but I'm not running around screaming 'The sky is falling!', either, but working to support change in that area. But this isn't the thread for that discussion. As for 'world coming to an end' narrative related to your claims ... who is saying this? Again, what have you read about this, or is it just your opinion of how others around you are reacting to the virus and the temporary restrictions this has caused? I guess everyone responds differently. I'm not scared, but I'm doing my due diligence, reading what I can of what experts are saying, trying to follow the research, and following the protocols set up by my city and state officials, and my employers, and internally scoffing at others who don't, but go on my way. It is what it is, and this, too, shall pass.

It isn't a stretch to admit the media, the left, and the anarchists are attempting to scare us into voting correctly. This is common practice during election years on both sides. Corona is the topic of the year, and is being deployed in a political way. That's all I am suggesting. I am in no way diminishing the real, true and devastating effects the virus has had on the world. This study tells me the scare tactics are working if America thinks 9% of us have died. I thought that was interesting. I am glad you are not scared. There is no reason to be. Due diligence as you say. I do hope things get better for you over there. Illinois is still problematic. 

[Craig Arko]

This is the report cited. It would be useful to know if these results were corroborated elsewhere, since the sample sizes are not large (1000 people in each of six countries).

 

If it were me, I would not draw conclusions based on this one report, or indeed, any single report.

 

https://www.kekstcnc.com/media/2793/kekstcnc_research_covid-19_opinion_tracker_wave-4.pdf

 

[Squirrel]

 

It isn't a stretch to admit the media, the left, and the anarchists are attempting to scare us into voting correctly. This is common practice during election years on both sides. Corona is the topic of the year, and is being deployed in a political way. That's all I am suggesting. I am in no way diminishing the real, true and devastating effects the virus has had on the world. This study tells me the scare tactics are working if America thinks 9% of us have died. I thought that was interesting. I am glad you are not scared. There is no reason to be. Due diligence as you say. I do hope things get better for you over there. Illinois is still problematic. 

Okay.

 

Well, I don't agree that this is just a left ploy. But that would take this into political discussions which are not allowed. You are welcome to your opinions, I don't concur nor agree.

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

Okay.

 

Well, I don't agree that this is just a left ploy. But that would take this into political discussions which are not allowed. You are welcome to your opinions, I don't concur nor agree.

PBS had a tremendously timely Frontline piece this week on conspiracy theories. It's amazing how in a press briefing with a Republican Senator on Thursday, he was asked about the idea of moving the election and flat-out laughed. When asked about the President's tweet to that effect, he said that no one truly believed that, and if the President ever truly believed it, he'd already moved off that thought. It was less than two hours after he had sent the tweet.

 

Polarization of the media landscape right now is intentionally played by many figures that are not media. It is nothing to do with the virus. I can tell you that many want to report straight numbers and straight information, understanding this is a novel virus and that details on the treatment and protection for the virus will change as more is found out about it. When those changes become fodder for attacks on the scientific community or used as ammunition as a "lack of holding science to the fire" by one political bend, it makes media attempting to report straight information look biased.

 

I've been accused of being a mouthpiece for both parties as a reporter, which tells me that I'm reporting exactly what's happening rather than putting a spin on any of what's going on because many will read something with a predetermined lean to how they interpret what you write...that, and looking up at social workers and teachers on the pay scale is the joy of reporting.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There were 200 cases yesterday in my State of over 3M citizens - there were 12 cases yesterday in my County of over 150K citizens. The level of fear and angst in the media - pounding and pounding us into submission makes me think there is an election this fall?
Interesting, those of us following the rules are being told to follow more rules, and those of us creating havoc and riots are being allowed create more havoc and riots. A study came out today and it says a majority of American citizens believe that 9% of us have died due to coronavirus. CNN would call that a success. Great Britain media fell a little short - UK citizens think 7% of them have died. 
I am not, nor is anyone else here suggesting this virus isn't what it is. I am suggesting that politico's and there accomplices in the media are driving this world is coming to an end narrative for electioneering purposes. 

 

It seems to me that this part at the end is completely unearned by the two paragraphs that preceded it.  

 

It's like a reverse prescription drug commercial.  Rather than a rosey commercial of all the drug's benefits for 25 seconds followed by 5 seconds of "here's all the ways it'll try to kill you too!" in rapid fire succession....you went the other way!  Two paragraphs of implied conspiracies and mostly unsubstantiated, implausible conjecture followed by 5 seconds of "But I'm totally cool with facts!"

 

With all due respect, if your last paragraph was true, you wouldn't have typed the first two.....which means you wouldn't have had to hedge SO hard on the last one trying to appear rational in spite of them.  If you truly aren't trying to suggest something else, the simple remedy is to, just spitballing here,....not spend the rest of your post suggesting something else?

[In My La Z boy]

 

It seems to me that this part at the end is completely unearned by the two paragraphs that preceded it.  

 

It's like a reverse prescription drug commercial.  Rather than a rosey commercial of all the drug's benefits for 25 seconds followed by 5 seconds of "here's all the ways it'll try to kill you too!" in rapid fire succession....you went the other way!  Two paragraphs of implied conspiracies and mostly unsubstantiated, implausible conjecture followed by 5 seconds of "But I'm totally cool with facts!"

 

With all due respect, if your last paragraph was true, you wouldn't have typed the first two.....which means you wouldn't have had to hedge SO hard on the last one trying to appear rational in spite of them.  If you truly aren't trying to suggest something else, the simple remedy is to, just spitballing here,....not spend the rest of your post suggesting something else?

You are suggesting the "absolute" argument - That both cannot be true. You invalidate me because it isn't politically correct to hold the simultaneous view a) virus is dangerous virus is being used politically
How does it offend you to suggest politics, while also suggest danger? Suggesting politics somehow disregards and diminishes danger? If I articulate the obvious politics in this, I cannot also hold the view that the virus is dangerous? Tell me what else I am allowed to believe and say please?

[TheLeviathan]

 

You are suggesting the "absolute" argument - That both cannot be true. You invalidate me because it isn't politically correct to hold the simultaneous view a) virus is dangerous virus is being used politically
How does it offend you to suggest politics, while also suggest danger? Suggesting politics somehow disregards and diminishes danger? If I articulate the obvious politics in this, I cannot also hold the view that the virus is dangerous? Tell me what else I am allowed to believe and say please?

 

My guess, given you seem to believe all you said was "this is being used politically" when it fully danced with several falsehoods actively being espoused...implies my advice would go unheeded.

 

All things are used politically.  You spent quite an effort to speak the obvious.  The only absolute in play is that someone who posts they are not espousing falsehoods ought not dance around ideas layered in them.  Sorta makes that final paragraph caveat feel unearned.

[In My La Z boy]

 

My guess, given you seem to believe all you said was "this is being used politically" when it fully danced with several falsehoods actively being espoused...implies my advice would go unheeded.

 

All things are used politically.  You spent quite an effort to speak the obvious.  The only absolute in play is that someone who posts they are not espousing falsehoods ought not dance around ideas layered in them.  Sorta makes that final paragraph caveat feel unearned.

So now All things are used politically Mr Absolutist? So my statement about the danger of the virus is invalidated by you, because of my points on it being used politically - and your comeback is "well of course all things are used politically?
If indeed you believe this / and to read your mind like you are attempting to read mine/I don't think you really do - then how do you conclude I'm being disingenuous saying the virus is dangerous by making what you call an obvious point about political motivations? You are the one sir who is being disingenuous in claiming you believe this virus is being used politically. I don't believe you or my post would not have elicited this response from you, and your shifting arguments. Did you even read the study I referenced? 2 posters challenged me on the existence of the study I referred to. I gave them the study, and I heard crickets. It was the results of this study that spurred my comment. Rather than fly off the emotional handle in your aggression to squash what you perceive as dissent, open your eyes to the whole truth. Not just the truth you prefer. Narratives are dangerous. They force everything to fit within a predetermined idea, whether they do or not. This is how the big lie becomes the truth. This Country thinks the virus kills 9% of those that get it. That is not the truth - so why is this? Because a political party is trying to win an election. That's the study, hence my comment - therefore according to you I cannot possibly believe the virus is dangerous. Ok

[TheLeviathan]

 

So now All things are used politically Mr Absolutist? So my statement about the danger of the virus is invalidated by you, because of my points on it being used politically - and your comeback is "well of course all things are used politically?
If indeed you believe this / and to read your mind like you are attempting to read mine/I don't think you really do - then how do you conclude I'm being disingenuous saying the virus is dangerous by making what you call an obvious point about political motivations? You are the one sir who is being disingenuous in claiming you believe this virus is being used politically. I don't believe you or my post would not have elicited this response from you, and your shifting arguments. Did you even read the study I referenced? 2 posters challenged me on the existence of the study I referred to. I gave them the study, and I heard crickets. It was the results of this study that spurred my comment. Rather than fly off the emotional handle in your aggression to squash what you perceive as dissent, open your eyes to the whole truth. Not just the truth you prefer. Narratives are dangerous. They force everything to fit within a predetermined idea, whether they do or not. This is how the big lie becomes the truth. This Country thinks the virus kills 9% of those that get it. That is not the truth - so why is this? Because a political party is trying to win an election. That's the study, hence my comment - therefore according to you I cannot possibly believe the virus is dangerous. Ok

 

Your study was challenged for the lack of context.  Factually speaking, you did not hear crickets, you heard rebuttals.  Secondly, I was neither aggressive nor emotional nor disingenuous.  I pointed out your lack of consistency.  Given this post seems to reflect many of those adjectives, perhaps you're projecting.  Thirdly, both political parties are trying to win an election and both have used this virus to win political points.  As they do with all things that have the public's attention.  I would say something about the quality of the science behind both of those parties' efforts, but I'm not here to debate with you.

 

My point all along was that you appear to believe there is a, in your words, "big lie" and here you admit that.  If you want to believe it's all a big lie.  Ok.  I won't debate that in a forum, it's not worth the effort.  But don't believe the big lie and then say, paraphrasing, say you aren't denying that the virus "is what it is".  At least own your thoughts, but perhaps consider the caveat you put at the end is your own reason trying to plead with you to listen more often.