Astros Being Investigated for Using Tech to Steal Pitching Signs

[Mike Sixel]

 

If I led this industry, I'd take energetic steps to first, apologize to the fans and to very specifically confess to the industry's historical culpability, example after example after example, and I'd pledge to do everything in our power to change things. I'd call out and implore the player's union to act in solidarity, in the name of decency and for the sake of the game.

 

I'd take exceptional measures to call out the players on those teams. I'd demand they step forward if innocent of participating to give them an opportunity to publicly apologize for the lesser transgression of knowing and doing nothing. These players are not lesser perps. These people live lavishly and are basking in this bizarre fantasy of idolatry and privilege. I wouldn't expect very many of them to suddenly develop a conscience, that's for sure.

 

It's always struck me as so obvious that cheaters, more than anything, should be denied extra opportunities to bask in fan praise, even after serving whatever paltry penalty they "accepted". I mean, sure, Pete Rose and Barry Bonds SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. After they're dead.

 

The system is morally corrupt. It just is. So Players Union, do the right thing. Collaborate with the owners and clean things up. Start my taking a pay cut and paying the minor leaguers for God's sake. You should be embarrassed, but you're not.

 

Just curious, should the Twins forfeit every game Pineda was in? Should they not have re-signed him?

 

What about the rumors TK threw out syringes back in the day.....

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If the NFL can do it, I'd think MLB can do it.

 

 

that technology already exists. Encrypting radio communications is something the military has been doing for years, and you wouldn't need anything nearly as complex or as costly as what they use.

 

I'm sure it's technically possible. But that's a different question from, can MLB implement it correctly? Given they seem to have a lot of trouble with relatively simple things like quality control on the production of their baseballs, etc.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If I led this industry, I'd take energetic steps to first, apologize to the fans and to very specifically confess to the industry's historical culpability, example after example after example, and I'd pledge to do everything in our power to change things. I'd call out and implore the player's union to act in solidarity, in the name of decency and for the sake of the game.

 

I'd take exceptional measures to call out the players on those teams. I'd demand they step forward if innocent of participating to give them an opportunity to publicly apologize for the lesser transgression of knowing and doing nothing. These players are not lesser perps. These people live lavishly and are basking in this bizarre fantasy of idolatry and privilege. I wouldn't expect very many of them to suddenly develop a conscience, that's for sure.

 

It's always struck me as so obvious that cheaters, more than anything, should be denied extra opportunities to bask in fan praise, even after serving whatever paltry penalty they "accepted". I mean, sure, Pete Rose and Barry Bonds SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. After they're dead.

 

You can call out the players all you want, but if they're protected by a contract you collectively bargained with them, then you're not going to accomplish much except antagonize them. (And if you call them out too far, you're opening yourself up to a difficult legal defense.) Given that the cheating was also directed by / blessed by management, I'm not sure it accomplishes much to go after the players either.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The system is morally corrupt. It just is. So Players Union, do the right thing. Collaborate with the owners and clean things up. Start my taking a pay cut and paying the minor leaguers for God's sake. You should be embarrassed, but you're not.

This is veering off topic, but why are MLB players responsible for paying minor leaguers?

[bird]

 

Just curious, should the Twins forfeit every game Pineda was in? Should they not have re-signed him?

 

What about the rumors TK threw out syringes back in the day.....

 

Pineda served a sentence. Personally, I would try to avoid cheaters, but that's me. I would be in favor of tougher sanctions, and it would include being put on a "posthumously only" HoF list just in case.

 

 

[bird]

 

This is veering off topic, but why are MLB players responsible for paying minor leaguers?

 

Quickly, the owners and the union could get this done together if they gave a damn. They could help each other, share the financial "sacrifice". No one would have to switch to grocery shopping at Alda.

[bird]

 

You can call out the players all you want, but if they're protected by a contract you collectively bargained with them, then you're not going to accomplish much except antagonize them. (And if you call them out too far, you're opening yourself up to a difficult legal defense.) Given that the cheating was also directed by / blessed by management, I'm not sure it accomplishes much to go after the players either.

 

 

The whole lot of them deserve to be antagonized. My adult children want absolutely nothing to do with the game. They used to love baseball. They don't anymore, and their kids won't care about baseball either. My kids were antagonized by this crap.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Pineda served a sentence.

Pineda served a sentence that was collectively bargained, for an offense which MLB could prove with hard evidence (the failed test).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Quickly, the owners and the union could get this done together if they gave a damn. They could help each other, share the financial "sacrifice". No one would have to switch to grocery shopping at Alda.

Grocery shopping at Alan Alda's house sounds fun!

 

In any case, I don't think it's clear that owners give more of a damn than the union about minor league salaries. So I wouldn't endorse complaining about the union alone in that context.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The whole lot of them deserve to be antagonized. My adult children want absolutely nothing to do with the game. They used to love baseball. They don't anymore, and their kids won't care about baseball either. My kids were antagonized by this crap.

If all you want to do is antagonize, that's fine. But antagonism itself doesn't actually accomplish anything, and may actually make it harder to meaningfully improve rules in the future, etc.

 

I'm not sure we'll be on the same wavelength to continue the discussion in this direction, but every sport has had cheating scandals. Every entertainment industry has had scandals too, many of which I find much more objectionable than the sports cheating ones. So I tend to doubt that cheating is really why your kids don't follow baseball anymore, relative to other hobbies or interests.

[lukeduke1980]

 

What about the rumors TK threw out syringes back in the day.....

I had to google this because I hadn't heard of it.  There is mention in the Mitchell report about how a syringe was found in the visiting team's clubhouse, and TK advised to 'just throw it away' because 'it was the other team's business'.  

[bird]

 

Grocery shopping at Alan Alda's house sounds fun!

 

In any case, I don't think it's clear that owners give more of a damn than the union about minor league salaries. So I wouldn't endorse complaining about the union alone in that context.

 

That's not what I said or even implied. I have been critical of the whole lot of them, for their insatiable greed. Even the fans.

[bird]

 

If all you want to do is antagonize, that's fine. But antagonism itself doesn't actually accomplish anything, and may actually make it harder to meaningfully improve rules in the future, etc.

 

I'm not sure we'll be on the same wavelength to continue the discussion in this direction, but every sport has had cheating scandals. Every entertainment industry has had scandals too, many of which I find much more objectionable than the sports cheating ones. So I tend to doubt that cheating is really why your kids don't follow baseball anymore, relative to other hobbies or interests.

 

All I'm suggesting, Spy, is that we, all of us, tolerate unethical behavior way too readily. Disrupt would be a better choice of words I guess. In our society we're often intolerant of the wrong things and look the other way at the injustices that matter more. Not that baseball really fits in the camp of "matters more", but it's sad for me that my grown son makes me go birdwatching instead of sitting on my butt watching baseball all the time. 

[David HK]

 

If I led this industry, I'd take energetic steps to first, apologize to the fans and to very specifically confess to the industry's historical culpability, example after example after example, and I'd pledge to do everything in our power to change things. I'd call out and implore the player's union to act in solidarity, in the name of decency and for the sake of the game.

 

I'd take exceptional measures to call out the players on those teams. I'd demand they step forward if innocent of participating to give them an opportunity to publicly apologize for the lesser transgression of knowing and doing nothing. These players are not lesser perps. These people live lavishly and are basking in this bizarre fantasy of idolatry and privilege. I wouldn't expect very many of them to suddenly develop a conscience, that's for sure.

 

It's always struck me as so obvious that cheaters, more than anything, should be denied extra opportunities to bask in fan praise, even after serving whatever paltry penalty they "accepted". I mean, sure, Pete Rose and Barry Bonds SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. After they're dead.

 

The system is morally corrupt. It just is. So Players Union, do the right thing. Collaborate with the owners and clean things up. Start my taking a pay cut and paying the minor leaguers for God's sake. You should be embarrassed, but you're not.

Wow, well put.

 

I'm votin' for you for the next commissioner.

[gunnarthor]

 

Just curious, should the Twins forfeit every game Pineda was in? Should they not have re-signed him?

 

What about the rumors TK threw out syringes back in the day.....

OK, not to veer off course but TK threw out a syringe that a ballboy found in the visitor's locker room after Seattle had left. Maybe that's your point but it seems like you were suggesting that TK was covering up behavior of his team. 

[gunnarthor]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

 

Good article on the ban on why Crane got off cheap.

[Mike Sixel]

 

OK, not to veer off course but TK threw out a syringe that a ballboy found in the visitor's locker room after Seattle had left. Maybe that's your point but it seems like you were suggesting that TK was covering up behavior of his team. 

my bad, that's not how I recalled it.....

 

but sure, he did cover it up. But my bad.

[Mike Sixel]

Cora fired, and I'll bet that the Red Sox cut payroll and blame him for it all falling apart....

[PseudoSABR]

 

Cora fired, and I'll bet that the Red Sox cut payroll and blame him for it all falling apart....

Time to jump on Price, now with the Donaldson signing? Can the Twins even afford that?

[Craig Arko]

This whole affair should come as no surprise at all. When you develop a system where winning it all is the only thing that matters, notions of being ethical are the first casualties.

[SwainZag]

If you guys want to really get into this, look here: The banging was only the beginning...a lot of evidence they were using sign stealing thru this year and into the World Series as well.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I find it really disappointing that no players were suspended and fined for their cheating. 

 

They were the ones who orchestrated it, after all.

[Mr. Brooks]

For the manager and GM, personally, it's a fairly strong punishment.

 

For the organization, it's a laughable slap on the wrist.

 

What owner wouldn't trade 4 draft picks and $5M for a world series title? Even the Pohlad's would do that deal.

Shouldn't be surprising though, since the commissioner works for the owners.

[Mike Sixel]

 

For the manager and GM, personally, it's a fairly strong punishment.

For the organization, it's a laughable slap on the wrist.

What owner wouldn't trade 4 draft picks and $5M for a world series title? Even the Pohlad's would do that deal.
Shouldn't be surprising though, since the commissioner works for the owners.

 

that is the maximum allowable fine......and those 4 picks are worth in the $35MM range, or more in value. Other than taking away international money, not sure what more people want. It seems pretty clear the owner knew nothing, and even told them literally not to do this kind of thing....

[Mr. Brooks]

that is the maximum allowable fine......and those 4 picks are worth in the $35MM range, or more in value. Other than taking away international money, not sure what more people want. It seems pretty clear the owner knew nothing, and even told them literally not to do this kind of thing....

I know that's the maximum allowable fine, which is the problem.

 

I don't really care if the owner knew or not, the buck stops at the top, period. (IMO)

 

Something like this deserves something close to the "death penalty", IMO.

 

No draft picks or international spending for 3 years.

A 5 year postseason ban.

$100 million fine.

 

The punishment as it stands now is a token one, IMO.

Won't discourage anything, I don't think.

 

Or, alternatively to the above, a lifetime ban for active participants.

 

I don't buy that players are just following orders. This isn't like a guy in a coal mine who can't complain about lax safety conditions because he's afraid he won't find another job, and needs his insurance because his kid has diabetes.

These guys have security, and there should be an independent whistleblower process so guys can come forward semi anonymously when stuff like this is going on.

[Mike Sixel]

Looks like Beltran is stepping down........

[nicksaviking]

By stepping down I assume that means the Mets don't have to pay him, which seems fair.

 

But I also don't like the idea of the Mets getting out from under this without financial penalty, mostly because the Wilpons seem to be about the slimiest owners out there, I was hoping they'd be pressured into eating the Beltran contract.

[Diesel]

Her account is hidden now on Twitter, but someone falsely claiming to be Carlos Beltran’s niece has been leaking offseason news all offseason. First, she has gotten the Beltran hiring and firing reports out 1 or 2 days ahead of anyone else. Now she’s claiming that Bregman and Altuve were buzzing devices in their uniforms in 2019 (similar to the trash can banging). When Altuve hit the walkoff in the ALCS against Chapman, Altuve didn’t want his jersey ripped, and Beltran’s niece claims he had a device on at that time......

[cmoss84]

 

Her account is hidden now on Twitter, but someone falsely claiming to be Carlos Beltran’s niece has been leaking offseason news all offseason. First, she has gotten the Beltran hiring and firing reports out 1 or 2 days ahead of anyone else. Now she’s claiming that Bregman and Altuve were buzzing devices in their uniforms in 2019 (similar to the trash can banging). When Altuve hit the walkoff in the ALCS against Chapman, Altuve didn’t want his jersey ripped, and Beltran’s niece claims he had a device on at that time......

Moley of Holiness.

 

This is some 007 $hit. Makes you wonder how many players did this/are going to get called out! 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Moley of Holiness.

 

This is some 007 $hit. Makes you wonder how many players did this/are going to get called out! 

 

MLB has said they investigated this and found no evidence of it.