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Craig Kimbrel Tracker

Vanimal46

By Vanimal46
in Other Baseball

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Vanimal46 Cooperstown

Vanimal46

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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Posted

Get over it. I doubt there was ever a chance of him coming to Minnesota regardless of how much money he was offered.

Why? Money talks for everyone.

Mike Sixel GOAT

Mike Sixel

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Get over it. I doubt there was ever a chance of him coming to Minnesota regardless of how much money he was offered.

Based on Cruz coming here? Or was that not about money? What do you base this on, in the face of years of evidence?

Squirrel GOAT

Squirrel

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

If you want to track Kimbrel, track Kimbrel. If you started this thread to stir some in your face stuff, then yes, get over it and move on. If you started this thread to grouse about how the Twins FO doesn’t spend and/or money is the answer to player acquisition, then don’t be so disingenuous and start a thread on that topic, using this as an example of a missed opportunity. But since this is about Kimbrel, keep it to that. The Twins discussion forum is over there ——->

 

Consider this a warning.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

That inning was pure crap.

 

The entire game, the ump called a zone tight on the corners with flexibility up and down in the zone. The crowd gets into Kimbrel coming in, and he missed multiple pitches. Brian McCann was absolutely in his rights to go ballistic when he was called out on strikes on a pitch that not one of his pitchers could get the entire game, which is why I'm sure he was given tremendous latitude to get right in the face of the umpire (who had already thrown out Carlos Gonzalez in the game, so it's not as if he was holding back on throwing out players that day) and scream at him for at least a solid minute. The ump knew he was wrong and took the reaming for it.

 

The missed calls affected the pitchers hitters went after. Acuna golfed a pitch for a double that he would have likely preferred to let go, but a strike had been called earlier in the count that was well outside. Freeman swung at a pitch off the inside part of the plate that he ended up grounding to Rizzo to finish the game...though Rizzo is even 3' either direction of where he's playing, and that's a double down the line, scoring both runners and tying the game.

 

Kimbrel didn't look good. He wasn't finishing right, which left his control all over the place, and that struggle to finish was heavily on his left knee, the same knee that was a major concern for most teams worried that he'd need to miss a year to get the knee fully repaired and healed due to the extensive damage in it. He might even get through 2019, but his knee makes a multi-year contract a huge risk, and an understandable one to walk away from for a smart organization. The Cubs are in a different pressure environment, forced to make moves that aren't exactly wise for the long-term health of the organization at times.

terrydactyls FCL Twins

terrydactyls

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Based on Cruz coming here? Or was that not about money? What do you base this on, in the face of years of evidence?

 

I would base it on Cruz being about the only person to choose Minnesota rather than using Cruz to "prove" a point.  As nice as Minnesota is, it isn't a destination spot for athletes wanting to cash in on endorsement money or enjoy fabulous night life.  Bean suppers are great but not equal to night life in Chicago, New York, L.A., etc.

Monkeypaws FCL Twins

Monkeypaws

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Kimbrel's line vs. Pittsburgh tonite:

 

1 IP

3H

3R

3ER

0BB

2K

2HR

 

The once pristine ERA is now sitting at 13.50

 

The Cubs were losing 15-5 when they put him in, so there is that.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

He was missing badly, but he compensated by hanging stuff in the zone that was just too easy to crush for Pirate hitters. I love Craig. His passion for the game is unmatched. However, he may have been better served finding a team that didn't want him to pitch in 2019 and getting his knee finally properly taken care of...

Otto von Ballpark All-Star

Otto von Ballpark

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

I thought he'd start badly, but wow.

I think the blown save is getting overblown a bit. Kimbrel didn't pitch well, but he didn't get hit either. There was a one out walk (bad Kimbrel), then a bloop double just out of the reach of Contreras (the Cubs catcher who was playing in RF). Then a grounder to second, where Russell hesitated then threw home late, then a sac fly. If Contreras or a real outfielder makes the play, it's a fairly easy save. If Russell throws home right away, it may still have been a save but a fairly adventurous one. If Russell takes the out at first, it's a blown save going into extra innings but not necessarily a loss.

 

Not a good game for Kimbrel -- he needs to miss more bats, obviously -- but not a disaster the box score would have you believe either.

jkcarew Ft Myers Mighty Mussels

jkcarew

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Missed plenty of bats last night. Got the 3-run save vs White Sox. All three outs were K’s including Abreu to end it. Gave up two base-runners on a HBP and a walk. If nothing else, Maddon seems to have decided that he’s good with using Kimbrel in late/leverage already.

Otto von Ballpark All-Star

Otto von Ballpark

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

He's using him late, but if I were a Cubs fan, I'd be no more sure of my favorite team's lead late in an October game with Kimbrel than I was with Strop or Cishek.

Better choosing between Kimbrel, Strop, or Cishek than just Strop or Cishek, though.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Better choosing between Kimbrel, Strop, or Cishek than just Strop or Cishek, though.

 

Still would have Brandon Morrow returning in the second half, along with Brad Brach and Brandon Kintzler even without Kimbrel.

 

One report this week stated that this put the Cubs over on luxury tax to the point where they will be dropping 10 spots in the draft in 2020. As the Cubs sit third in the NL in record and in a dogfight in their division to even make the playoffs, I'm not sure closer is the position that you gain the impact enough to make that worth it.

Mike Sixel GOAT

Mike Sixel

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

Still would have Brandon Morrow returning in the second half, along with Brad Brach and Brandon Kintzler even without Kimbrel.

 

One report this week stated that this put the Cubs over on luxury tax to the point where they will be dropping 10 spots in the draft in 2020. As the Cubs sit third in the NL in record and in a dogfight in their division to even make the playoffs, I'm not sure closer is the position that you gain the impact enough to make that worth it.

They might not be done adding....and he cost money and 10 spots in the draft (so far). That's less than trading a real prospect, I'd guess.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

They might not be done adding....and he cost money and 10 spots in the draft (so far). That's less than trading a real prospect, I'd guess.

 

Based on Fangraphs' pick valuation and prospect valuation articles from Craig Edwards, that'd be $2-5M in value lost, which would equate to a 45+ prospect on their list. Per Fangraphs' list for the Twins, that'd be the equivalent of Wander Javier or Luis Arraez.

 

....and that's not counting the loss of international money or just the straight salary.

Old Twins Cap First Round Pick

Old Twins Cap

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

Based on Fangraphs' pick valuation and prospect valuation articles from Craig Edwards, that'd be $2-5M in value lost, which would equate to a 45+ prospect on their list. Per Fangraphs' list for the Twins, that'd be the equivalent of Wander Javier or Luis Arraez.

 

....and that's not counting the loss of international money or just the straight salary.

 

Give them Wander Javier then.

Otto von Ballpark All-Star

Otto von Ballpark

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Still would have Brandon Morrow returning in the second half, along with Brad Brach and Brandon Kintzler even without Kimbrel.

 

One report this week stated that this put the Cubs over on luxury tax to the point where they will be dropping 10 spots in the draft in 2020. As the Cubs sit third in the NL in record and in a dogfight in their division to even make the playoffs, I'm not sure closer is the position that you gain the impact enough to make that worth it.

Link? They are still saving Zobrist money, so every analysis I have read shows them as under that threshold. For example:

 

https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/6/18/18683584/craig-kimbrel-ben-zobrist-cubs-trade-deadline

 

Also, they would be fools to count on Morrow for anything at this point, but if he does come back, the same principle applies: better choosing from Kimbrel plus their other relievers, than simply choosing from the other relievers.

  • 1 month later...
gil4 FCL Twins

gil4

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

The "tracker" hasn't been updated in a while.

Kimbrel:  5.68 ERA, -0.2 WAR, on the IL.

Just trying to help out.

Sounds about like what we traded for, except Dyson's ERA is slightly higher.  (ERA of 81.00, and he managed to pack -0.3 WAR into 2/3 IP.)

 

That said, I think Dyson will help down the stretch. I didn't think it was a great plan to put him in that first game when he had just arrived during the game and hadn't even introduced himself to his catcher.

  • 4 weeks later...

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