Bullpen

[jorgenswest]

The Twins need to acquire at least two relievers.

 

One can be a veteran on an expiring contract. The other should be an emerging reliever some team control. Comps from last year might be Soria and Pressly. I think they will be able to do better than Soria. I don’t think there is any hope they will find a team foolish enough to give up a Pressly.

 

They shouldn’t be looking for bargains. They need to be ready to pay whatever the market demands. If they have their sites set on Will Smith and Amir Garrett they have the prospect assets to get both. Pay up.

[ashbury]

If Gilberto Celestino isn't part of a trade package for a very good reliever, I'm going to be very disappointed in the trading acumen of our front office.

 

He's the unnecessary outfielder they took in partial exchange for Pressly last year, and if he turns out not to be fungible... I just won't know what to think. That, plus the draft strategy of overloading on corner-type outfielders and miscellaneous middle infielders, only works if you can flip them for what you actually need when the window is open.

 

We need three more lights-out relievers, if we're to make any noise in the post-season. Having whiffed in the free-agent market, it's gotta be trades, or else some bluebird rookie who is converted to a max-effort one-inning guy as someone else already suggested.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

To win the division that is probably true. To be a serious WS contender I would disagree.

 

Not saying I agree with doing nothing, I’m just saying it can be justified.

[wsnydes]

 

Not saying I agree with doing nothing, I’m just saying it can be justified.

Fair enough. However, if the goal of this FO is to simply win a division, especially at this point of this season, I'm going to be extremely disappointed. So, I guess that I would disagree that it can be justified because the goal should be to win championships, not a division. I really couldn't care less about the division. Especially this one.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

What is that old Beatles song, HELP?  Can't remember the exact words, but the song kept going thru my mind as I read this post.

How about "We Can Work It Out"?

 

Some others:

 

"You've Got to Hide Your 'Pen Away"

 

"The Fools on the Hill"

 

"While Our Offense Gently Weeps"

 

"Get Back" (sung to Taylor Rogers)

 

 

[USAFChief]

The ironic thing is that their offense is over-achieving by so much, that they don’t have to do a thing.

I think it’s more accurate to say their offense has overachieved by so much, accompanied by an overachieving starting staff, that they got away with doing nothing so far.

 

I don’t think it’s a good idea to expect the offense to keep performing like the 27 Yankees.

[ashbury]

 

How about "We Can Work It Out"?

 

Some others:

 

"You've Got to Hide Your 'Pen Away"

 

"The Fools on the Hill"

 

"While Our Offense Gently Weeps"

 

"Get Back" (sung to Taylor Rogers)

"Magical Misery Tour"

 

"With A Little Hindrance From My Friends"

 

"Here Comes The Run"

 

"Round-Tripper" (Blake Parker's entrance theme)

 

 

[USAFChief]

 

 

"With A Little Hindrance From My Friends"

 

 

 

 

I was thinking

 

"I can't buy a little help from the pen."

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I was thinking

"I can't buy a little help from the pen."

We could have bought a little help FOR the pen...

[nicksaviking]

 

Something is wrong with Parker.

 

 

Through June his velocity was down about 1.5 MPH from the start of the year, so I was thinking the same thing. But then last start he was back to his 93 MPG average, I don't know. He just might not be very consistent. Or good.

 

No one will or should like this, but with a 10 game division lead, I'm guessing they aren't going to rush to fix this. But right now they should raid the out-of-contention teams. Elite guys won't move yet; the Blue Jays are surely going to want to wait maximize a guy like Ken Giles, Will Smith probably too. But I bet the Twins could get Daniel Hudson now. Or Roenis Elais, I wanted him earlier in the year and now that I saw him in person last night, I want him even more. Ian Kennedy could probably be gotten without given up much in terms of prospects if the Twins take on some of his contract.

 

Get a couple of the unsexy guys now, then when other teams fade and the big names are ready to be moved, get one of those as well.

[nicksaviking]

 

How about "We Can Work It Out"?

 

Some others:

 

"You've Got to Hide Your 'Pen Away"

 

"The Fools on the Hill"

 

"While Our Offense Gently Weeps"

 

"Get Back" (sung to Taylor Rogers)

 

I want to play!

 

Leaving the Field Forever

 

I Saw Him Standing There (Sadly on the Mound)

 

Eight Innings a Week (Sung by Taylor Rogers)

 

Got to Get You Into My Dugout

 

All You Need is Glove (As interpreted with choreography by Miguel Sano)

 

Let it Be Over

 

[MMMordabito]

While I do think the bullpen needs to be addressed, I'm not in the camp that thinks they need to do whatever it takes to make something happen right away.  A 10.5 game lead gives you some flexibility to explore all angles and not rush and over pay for help.  

 

As mentioned above, Jake Reed might be an option.  I think Cody Stashak might be an option.  Zack Littell should be given another chance, and this time in a short role.  I don't think any of those guys is going to save the bullpen, but they could give a temporary boost and bridge the gap to after the All-Star break.

 

The Mariners needed a journeyman soft-tossing lefty to be almost perfect for awhile and then five uncharacteristic Twins errors to win that game yesterday. 

 

Also, go look at Will Smith's career 1st Half/2nd Half splits.  I'm not sure he's the guy to call about and do whatever it takes to acquire.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Fair enough. However, if the goal of this FO is to simply win a division, especially at this point of this season, I'm going to be extremely disappointed. So, I guess that I would disagree that it can be justified because the goal should be to win championships, not a division. I really couldn't care less about the division. Especially this one.

Before the season started, the goal of the FO was not to win the division, but to be in position to win it (or as I understand it, be even with Cleveland in the standings come late-July).

 

Yes, I hope they are adjusting their sights too!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Get a couple of the unsexy guys now

Big Sexy?

[Tomj14]

 

While I do think the bullpen needs to be addressed, I'm not in the camp that thinks they need to do whatever it takes to make something happen right away.  A 10.5 game lead gives you some flexibility to explore all angles and not rush and over pay for help.  

 

As mentioned above, Jake Reed might be an option.  I think Cody Stashak might be an option.  Zack Littell should be given another chance, and this time in a short role.  I don't think any of those guys is going to save the bullpen, but they could give a temporary boost and bridge the gap to after the All-Star break.

 

The Mariners needed a journeyman soft-tossing lefty to be almost perfect for awhile and then five uncharacteristic Twins errors to win that game yesterday. 

 

Also, go look at Will Smith's career 1st Half/2nd Half splits.  I'm not sure he's the guy to call about and do whatever it takes to acquire.  

The problem with waiting is a 10.5 league can disappear very quickly when the bullpen is terrible, most starters don't pitch more than 6 innings, and starters aren't allowed pitch more than 90 pitches.

The expectation should be that they will need 4 relief innings today, 3 more tomorrow, after 3 1/3 yesterday.

 

 

[longstrangetrip]

While I agree addtions to the bullpen are neccesary if this team is going to make a deep playoff run, I'm relatively optimistic solutions are out there through a combinatoin of promotions (or reassignment) and trades.  This would be my plan:

 

1) Determine which starter (Perez or Pineda) is more likely to thrive in the bullpen and move him there immediately.  This team doesn't need a 5th starter in postseason, and can also likely easily win the division after promoting a current minor leaguer (Stewart or Smeltzer, for instance) to 5th starter.

 

2) Mejia had a promising appearance his last time out.  He and/or Reed are solid candidates to add to the bullpen.

 

3) Target one excellent reliever to pick up in a trade.  The conventional wisdom is that we will offer prospects in a trade, but I might suggest a combo of prospects and Schoop.  I think Schoop was a great offseason pickup and love what he has brought to this team, but he occupies a position that is destined to by Polanco's sooner rather than later (his erratic arm could be a huge liability at SS in a playoff run), and his good HR start to this season might have created a "sell high" situation.  Power hitting second baseman are a rarity, and a combo of Schoop, Gordon and something else could land a very good reliever.  Meanwhile we have Arreaz to replace Schoop as a middle infield option.  

[Don Walcott]

 

The performance of the bullpen is ultimately good news. At least the timing is. 

 

Think of it this way... If you are not getting much sleep night after night and you yawn a couple of times at work. You probably don't go to the doctor. 

 

Now, If you are not getting much sleep night after night and you pass out at work, bang your head on the danish cart on the way down, causing your boss to put everything down just to clean up the blood in the break room from your gushing head wound.

 

You just might go to the doctor after that. 

TMI

[ashbury]

TMI

He left out:

 

True story

...

True story.

[jkcarew]

Still think the bullpen upgrade is required for the post season, not the regular season. It looks worse than it is right now due to Rogers temporary unavailability. Although, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking for solutions now...the trade deadline is the trade deadline.

 

Can also hope that Romero turns into anything resembling what he was advertised to be even one short year ago. I don't see any other 2019 answers in the minors. Don't mind others getting a shot, like Reed, but have no expectation that he/others would perform based on where they are and/or what they've done.

 

Agree that this is a risk they took when being relatively inactive in the off-season. The team has over-performed expectations, and now the FO is in a very tough spot...perhaps having to over-pay to patch holes on a playoff-caliber team.

[twinsnorth49]

How about "We Can Work It Out"?

 

Some others:

 

"You've Got to Hide Your 'Pen Away"

 

"The Fools on the Hill"

 

"While Our Offense Gently Weeps"

 

"Get Back" (sung to Taylor Rogers)

"Don't Let Me Down" has been the refrain for awhile now.

[wsnydes]

 

Before the season started, the goal of the FO was not to win the division, but to be in position to win it (or as I understand it, be even with Cleveland in the standings come late-July).

Yes, I hope they are adjusting their sights too!

I'm fine with the baby steps approach, but still disappointed with the lack of effort to shore up the pen during the offseason to maximize the potential of hitting those goals. Was then, am now. I don't pretend to think that the FO, or anyone, thought this team would be as good as it has been. Even so, I would hope that the FO had A goal of winning the division or at the very least being in the hunt. But THE goal should be to win titles.

 

I don't think that you're arguing against that notion, just trying to clarify my own statements.

[yarnivek1972]

While I agree addtions to the bullpen are neccesary if this team is going to make a deep playoff run, I'm relatively optimistic solutions are out there through a combinatoin of promotions (or reassignment) and trades. This would be my plan:

 

1) Determine which starter (Perez or Pineda) is more likely to thrive in the bullpen and move him there immediately. This team doesn't need a 5th starter in postseason, and can also likely easily win the division after promoting a current minor leaguer (Stewart or Smeltzer, for instance) to 5th starter.

 

2) Mejia had a promising appearance his last time out. He and/or Reed are solid candidates to add to the bullpen.

 

3) Target one excellent reliever to pick up in a trade. The conventional wisdom is that we will offer prospects in a trade, but I might suggest a combo of prospects and Schoop. I think Schoop was a great offseason pickup and love what he has brought to this team, but he occupies a position that is destined to by Polanco's sooner rather than later (his erratic arm could be a huge liability at SS in a playoff run), and his good HR start to this season might have created a "sell high" situation. Power hitting second baseman are a rarity, and a combo of Schoop, Gordon and something else could land a very good reliever. Meanwhile we have Arreaz to replace Schoop as a middle infield option.

 

So, you want to trade a guy that is doing well and replace him with a guy with 24 MLB ABs?

 

That is not what contending teams should be doing. You don’t plug one hole by opening another.

[MMMordabito]

 

I might suggest a combo of prospects and Schoop.  I think Schoop was a great offseason pickup and love what he has brought to this team, but he occupies a position that is destined to by Polanco's sooner rather than later (his erratic arm could be a huge liability at SS in a playoff run), and his good HR start to this season might have created a "sell high" situation.  Power hitting second baseman are a rarity, and a combo of Schoop, Gordon and something else could land a very good reliever.  Meanwhile we have Arreaz to replace Schoop as a middle infield option.  

 

This would be a clubhouse disaster.  

[Vanimal46]

Still think the bullpen upgrade is required for the post season, not the regular season. It looks worse than it is right now due to Rogers temporary unavailability. Although, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be looking for solutions now...the trade deadline is the trade deadline.

 

Can also hope that Romero turns into anything resembling what he was advertised to be even one short year ago. I don't see any other 2019 answers in the minors. Don't mind others getting a shot, like Reed, but have no expectation that he/others would perform based on where they are and/or what they've done.

 

Agree that this is a risk they took when being relatively inactive in the off-season. The team has over-performed expectations, and now the FO is in a very tough spot...perhaps having to over-pay to patch holes on a playoff-caliber team.

I think they need bullpen help for the regular season and post season. Can't get too comfortable with our current standing in the American League.

 

I don't know what, if anything, has changed since Romero was last called up. His outings in AAA were uninspiring to say the least. Kind of feels like the definition of insanity...

 

Because of their inactivity this offseason, they're going to have to overpay now at the deadline. July isn't the time of year where teams find bargains... Every contender, hell, every team in baseball needs additional bullpen arms. We'll see if they can compete with Houston, New York, Boston, etc. for the best trade chips this year.

[USAFChief]

So, you want to trade a guy that is doing well and replace him with a guy with 24 MLB ABs?

 

That is not what contending teams should be doing. You don’t plug one hole by opening another.

not to mention, why would a team that's in a position to trade bullpen help, which means they're not on contention, trade for Schoop on a one yr contract?

[jorgenswest]

I still have hope in Romero. He can get swings and misses with his stuff.

[longstrangetrip]

 

So, you want to trade a guy that is doing well and replace him with a guy with 24 MLB ABs?

That is not what contending teams should be doing. You don’t plug one hole by opening another.

Fair point, although I actually think we would be replacing Schoop in the lineup with Gonzalez and Adrianza (both of whom have OPS's close to Schoop's this year, and likely better last year)...Arreaz would be replacing Adrianza as our utility middle infielder.  I would rather get something for Schoop and fill a glaring need than lose him for nothing when Baldelli finally moves Jorge to his natural position and Schoop no longer has a starting role.  Better to be proactive now, I think, if there is a market for Schoop.  I agree in principal that you don't plug a hole by opening another, but I don't view the trio of Gonzalez/Adrianza/Arreaz as a hole. 

 

Obviously the brain trust also has to consider Mordabito's point about clubhouse impact of trading a player rather than a prospect.  I don't know if any of us really know if there would be a negative impact and have to trust Rocco to make that assessment.  Maybe if Schoop were a long-time teammate or a countryman of some of our players I might feel differently, but I don't know if Curacao-born Schoop even speaks Spanish (much more likely his languages are Dutch and English).  Ultimately players want to win and they have to understand that the bullpen is a possible impediment, and they also know that baseball is a business with trades part of the deal.  If we could get a very good reliever in exchange for Schoop, Gordon, and something else, I'm confident Rocco could convince his team of the merits of such a deal.  But if Rocco believed trading would have a disastrous impact on morale, I'd agree that keeping Schoop was the best move. 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Blake Parker velocity is down more than 2 mph compared to the previous two Junes. It is down from the start of this season.

A drop in velocity doesn’t need to have a large sample to indicate something is not right. It could be an injury. It could be a change in mechanics. It could be age. I don’t think it is the workload. I doubt that it is random variation.

 

How about, he's just not good and never was. There's a reason he was a no-name that no one wanted but the Twins. It's been a bubble gum and bandaid fix to the pen so far this season. We all knew this would be a team weakness. It needs to be addressed with high end talent. The very best out there no matter what the cost. All of their other moves have worked out and this team as it sits is a WS contender. Time to open up the pocket books and let go of a few young guys with talent, the iron is hot now, time to strike. 

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Fair point, although I actually think we would be replacing Schoop in the lineup with Gonzalez and Adrianza (both of whom have OPS's close to Schoop's this year, and likely better last year)...Arreaz would be replacing Adrianza as our utility middle infielder.  I would rather get something for Schoop and fill a glaring need than lose him for nothing when Baldelli finally moves Jorge to his natural position and Schoop no longer has a starting role.  Better to be proactive now, I think, if there is a market for Schoop.  I agree in principal that you don't plug a hole by opening another, but I don't view the trio of Gonzalez/Adrianza/Arreaz as a hole. 

 

Obviously the brain trust also has to consider Mordabito's point about clubhouse impact of trading a player rather than a prospect.  I don't know if any of us really know if there would be a negative impact and have to trust Rocco to make that assessment.  Maybe if Schoop were a long-time teammate or a countryman of some of our players I might feel differently, but I don't know if Curacao-born Schoop even speaks Spanish (much more likely his languages are Dutch and English).  Ultimately players want to win and they have to understand that the bullpen is a possible impediment, and they also know that baseball is a business with trades part of the deal.  If we could get a very good reliever in exchange for Schoop, Gordon, and something else, I'm confident Rocco could convince his team of the merits of such a deal.  But if Rocco believed trading would have a disastrous impact on morale, I'd agree that keeping Schoop was the best move. 

 

Why trade a good defensive 2b who hits for power when you are going for it this season? IMO, this would be insane. 

 

What did it take for the Astros to get Ryan Pressly from us? That is what we should be offering other teams for their high end guys. Both of those guys were out of the top 10 of their prospect list. Why do we need to get screwed all the time, then you want to trade our starting 2B who is playing well and one of our top 5 prospects for a reliever? Shouldn't take that much. Give whoever a choice of 2-3 guys from our 10-20 list for their stud reliever and you have a deal. 

 

By doing this you also have to move the best player on your team off the position he's been playing for years now and you break up your up the middle infield defense. No friggen way would I go for this. By the way Polanco is playing more than just fine at SS this season.

[jorgenswest]

I still have hope in Romero. He can get swings and misses with his stuff.

It didn’t take long for that hope to get shaken.