SI on Joe Mauer

[gunnarthor]

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=mauerjo01&t=b&year=Career

 

The number would disagree with you - In Fenway a .255 BA (157 PA) and in Yankee Stadium a .286 BA (145 PA)

Small sample size. Mauer could and would have hit anywhere but I think his approach would have been tailor made for Fenway. He'd have been another Wade Boggs and just bounced everything off the Monster. 

[USAFChief]

 

Small sample size. Mauer could and would have hit anywhere but I think his approach would have been tailor made for Fenway. He'd have been another Wade Boggs and just bounced everything off the Monster. 

Why didn't he do that while playing for the Twins?

[yarnivek1972]

Whoa, before Mauer signed that contract, he was midway through a hall of fame career. Had he not gotten those concussions and played most of his whole career at Catcher he would be a hall of famer. What hall of famers out there didn't deserve their contracts?? It's ridiculous, had Mauer jumped ship and took the money from some other organization such as the Yankees he probably would have had to move his whole family from all of the threats all of the idiots around here would have said.

He had knee and back problems long before concussions were an issue. Frankly, I doubt he would have played any longer than he did as a catcher even without the concussions.

[Ex-Iowegian]

 

So are you mad they didn't do a fluff article on Mauer? Reporting both sides of a story that doesn't get national attention seems like a fair approach.

Mad about an SI article? No.

Disappointed in the direction they took? Maybe. Decent does not have to be fluff. I'm not 100% certain that anyone outside of "Twins Territory" has any idea what Mauer has done in his career, and this would be a good time to report that. What I'm left with is the same old sour taste of this 8 year old discussion

Seems to me that the Press jumps on every chance to shout about the negatives under the guise of presenting both sides of the story. Sells more copy, I guess.

[KGB]

 

Well he was facing Chris Sale and Aroldis Chapman when he went to those stadiums, had he been playing for them he would have been facing Twins pitching??

He would also face them at home too.  Here's his average home/away against those 2 teams.

 

                                                    Home                      Away

Yankees                                      .283                         .273 (include Old Yankee stadium)

Red Sox                                      .294                         .255

 

Still seems like the conclusion isn't based on any supportive facts

[ken]

 

Mad about an SI article? No.

Disappointed in the direction they took? Maybe. Decent does not have to be fluff. I'm not 100% certain that anyone outside of "Twins Territory" has any idea what Mauer has done in his career, and this would be a good time to report that. What I'm left with is the same old sour taste of this 8 year old discussion

Seems to me that the Press jumps on every chance to shout about the negatives under the guise of presenting both sides of the story. Sells more copy, I guess.

Follow Gleeman, he will no doubt write the article you want.  It might be a 8 year discussion here, but not on a national level.  He me, I think Gleeman comes off as the mad person in the article and the perfect example of what Rennecke refers to as "How dare anyone be critical of him"

[TheBoofIsLoose]

 

Follow Gleeman, he will no doubt write the article you want.  It might be a 8 year discussion here, but not on a national level.  He me, I think Gleeman comes off as the mad person in the article and the perfect example of what Rennecke refers to as "How dare anyone be critical of him"

I wouldn't classify Gleeman's arguments as mad, more defensive and annoyed. But Rennecke did say this sentence without irony. “In Minnesota, we're hardworking people and don't like it if you're being paid and you’re not out there performing.” I don't know if there will ever be a more eye-rolling quote about Joe Mauer printed.

[Dantes929]

 

He would also face them at home too.  Here's his average home/away against those 2 teams.

 

                                                    Home                      Away

Yankees                                      .283                         .273 (include Old Yankee stadium)

Red Sox                                      .294                         .255

 

Still seems like the conclusion isn't based on any supportive facts

Its small sample size.   I don't know how to do it but if you took all his batted balls at Target Field and put them in Fenway I am gussing an awful lot of those balls would have hit the wall instead of warning track outs.    That doesn't mean he would have been pitched the same way or that there might be other factors but I gotta believe he would have been better in Fenway full time also.

[laloesch]

 

If Mauer had stayed behind the plate and not had his concussion, no one would ever be questioning that contract. As a catcher, producing where he was, if he could have kept that up for a number of years, he might have gone down as one of, if not the greatest catcher of all time. 

 

It's too bad he had to get his brain scrambled and move out from behind the dish. The Twins were a much stronger team with Mauer back there. 

 

Yes they absolutely were. If he had never gotten hurt and maintained his pre concussion numbers the rest of his career he would have been an EASY shoe in to the HOF. I agree with other posters here I am absolutely pissed off that the front office and team never put the pieces around this player to take the next step to a world series and victory. There was definitely some bad luck in there with Morneau's concussion and Liriano getting hurt and needing TJ, but man they were close and the front office just didn't go for it. And then to not figure out a deal to keep Santana. ugghhh that irks me to no end to this day.

[laloesch]

 

If Mauer had gone to New York or even Boston his numbers would have been even better than hitting in MN. In New York especially the new ball park is much smaller than even than the dome would have produced more home runs for Mauer. Boston would have produced more hits for him with green monster. Also i think his career would have been longer there too because they would have rested him more wouldn't have taken beating he got catching for Mn early in his career. Also catching for those clubs he would have been catching better pitching which might have reduced number of fall tips he took over the years. 

 

These are really good points and the pitch to contact insanity that MN was on with all those mediocre AAA pitchers did produce A LOT of foul balls, foul tips, wild pitches and long innings which didn't help Mauer's knees and legs which i hadn't thought about.  He took more than his fair share of hits because of these factors.  

[Twodogs]

He had knee and back problems long before concussions were an issue. Frankly, I doubt he would have played any longer than he did as a catcher even without the concussions.

Castro has had knee problems, don't think they are going to move him around the diamond. He would have played longer at Catcher, not his whole career, but prob another 2 - 3 seasons, also he could have played some games at Catcher and moved out from behind the plate 2 - 3 times a week. I think Fisk played some at Catcher and then some elsewhere also later in his career. It would have been different than having been forced out.

[Twodogs]

He would also face them at home too. Here's his average home/away against those 2 teams.

 

Home Away

Yankees .283 .273 (include Old Yankee stadium)

Red Sox .294 .255

 

Still seems like the conclusion isn't based on any supportive facts

So are you trying to tell all of us that if he was drafted by the Red Sox that he would have been a career .255 hitter?

 

Don't you think that if he was playing for that team and practicing there everyday that he would have hit better than at Target field? I mean so you take some averges that he had as a visitor against mind you two of the best teams in the AL during his career, so it's safe to say that a lot of people were shut down by those Yankees and Red Sox teams, also factor in who is hitting around him, are you saying that Mauer would have hit .255 in a lineup where David Ortiz is probably hitting behind him?? I mean you can't even come close to making any predictions like that.

[Platoon]

Castro has had knee problems, don't think they are going to move him around the diamond. He would have played longer at Catcher, not his whole career, but prob another 2 - 3 seasons, also he could have played some games at Catcher and moved out from behind the plate 2 - 3 times a week. I think Fisk played some at Catcher and then some elsewhere also later in his career. It would have been different than having been forced out.

Mauer likely could have continued to catch, but the threat of another foul ball concussion made that idea unacceptable. Plus he was one of the better athletes to have played the position, making his move to another position much simpler. I would include any corner spot in that statement, he was that good an athlete. A Sano he was not.

[KGB]

 

Its small sample size.   I don't know how to do it but if you took all his batted balls at Target Field and put them in Fenway I am gussing an awful lot of those balls would have hit the wall instead of warning track outs.    That doesn't mean he would have been pitched the same way or that there might be other factors but I gotta believe he would have been better in Fenway full time also.

It may be a small sample size, but the conclusion he would hit better in these ballparks is based on no sample size.  Balls might have hit the wall more, but outfielder would have also been playing closer so the balls that drop in might now be caught. Which might be why he has not had great success in Fenway,

[KGB]

 

So are you trying to tell all of us that if he was drafted by the Red Sox that he would have been a career .255 hitter?

Don't you think that if he was playing for that team and practicing there everyday that he would have hit better than at Target field? I mean so you take some averges that he had as a visitor against mind you two of the best teams in the AL during his career, so it's safe to say that a lot of people were shut down by those Yankees and Red Sox teams, also factor in who is hitting around him, are you saying that Mauer would have hit .255 in a lineup where David Ortiz is probably hitting behind him?? I mean you can't even come close to making any predictions like that.

Where did I say Mauer would be a .255 hitter?  I think we are getting into what the SI article talked about in any "Baby Jesus" discussion.

 

He probably would have been just as good of a hitter in Fenway as he was in the Metrodome.  He wouldn't have the turf which probably helped him and he would have to change as a hitter.  Just the belief that going to Fenway would have made him a better hitter has no supportive evidence.

[ewen21]

 

Well he was facing Chris Sale and Aroldis Chapman when he went to those stadiums, had he been playing for them he would have been facing Twins pitching??

Had he been playing for them he would have been playing under a lot of scrutiny and pressure.  He would not be able to fly under the radar.  No way in the world Joe could have handled playing in the bright lights of NY or in a town like Boston where fans and the papers are as hard on players as it is anywhere.  Nevermind the pitching.  I don't like Joe's chances in that environment.  Had he signed a big contract with those teams (no way he would have because he had no intention of doing so) he would have been skewered

[ewen21]

 

Follow Gleeman, he will no doubt write the article you want.  It might be a 8 year discussion here, but not on a national level.  He me, I think Gleeman comes off as the mad person in the article and the perfect example of what Rennecke refers to as "How dare anyone be critical of him"

 

There is an army of people like that and all it has done is create polarization.  Gleeman was posting "comparison without comment" numbers a year or two after it became apparent Mauer was shot (to me that is 2011).  He totally cherry picked Joe's best stats from his best years.  He made a "comparison without comment" to Tony Gwynn(!).  Totally absurd.

 

That is a quintessential, paradigmatic example of why Mauer was given the "Baby Jesus" tag.  Same with the OBP is the best thing ever and RBI mean nothing takes that surface in many breakdowns of Joe's numbers.

 

 

[USAFChief]

Well he was facing Chris Sale and Aroldis Chapman when he went to those stadiums, had he been playing for them he would have been facing Twins pitching??

I seem to recall a Chris Sale pitching for the White Sox for a number of years, a team in the same division as the Twins. Any relation?

[mngopherguy]

 

There is an army of people like that and all it has done is create polarization.  Gleeman was posting "comparison without comment" numbers a year or two after it became apparent Mauer was shot (to me that is 2011).  He totally cherry picked Joe's best stats from his best years.  He made a "comparison without comment" to Tony Gwynn(!).  Totally absurd.

 

That is a quintessential, paradigmatic example of why Mauer was given the "Baby Jesus" tag.  Same with the OBP is the best thing ever and RBI mean nothing takes that surface in many breakdowns of Joe's numbers.

 

 

Baby Jesus was a reference from a hack at KFAN who when he got here from Texas decided to make a career out of being the anti Sid.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[ewen21]

 

Baby Jesus was a reference from a hack at KFAN who when he got here from Texas decided to make a career out of being the anti Sid.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Doesn't matter who started it.  The shoe fits

[ewen21]

Maybe he doesn't want a big send off and wants to leave out the back door.  If so I don't begrudge him that wish.  It is just I think he is being selfish if he keeps dragging  it out.  He should announce it very soon

[Twodogs]

I seem to recall a Chris Sale pitching for the White Sox for a number of years, a team in the same division as the Twins. Any relation?

It was an example, his career has been a long one and during his career those teams have been traditionally very good and very good teams typically don't get beat up by opposing players that often. If they did, they probably wouldn't be dominate teams.

[Twodogs]

Had he been playing for them he would have been playing under a lot of scrutiny and pressure. He would not be able to fly under the radar. No way in the world Joe could have handled playing in the bright lights of NY or in a town like Boston where fans and the papers are as hard on players as it is anywhere. Nevermind the pitching. I don't like Joe's chances in that environment. Had he signed a big contract with those teams (no way he would have because he had no intention of doing so) he would have been skewered

IDK, he won multiple batting titles, he is a professional, until the last few years he was pretty much always "money", you knew he was going to hit around .300. Also, I know for a fact that none of those teams nor their fans would have ever blamed him for their teams inability to sign other good players so as to blame him for their teams failures due to their inability to retain or gain talent, like the Twins media and fans have.

[Twodogs]

Where did I say Mauer would be a .255 hitter? I think we are getting into what the SI article talked about in any "Baby Jesus" discussion.

 

He probably would have been just as good of a hitter in Fenway as he was in the Metrodome. He wouldn't have the turf which probably helped him and he would have to change as a hitter. Just the belief that going to Fenway would have made him a better hitter has no supportive evidence.

I agree that the dome was also a park that probably benefitted Joe and his hitting. Just curious, since I'm not willing to do it, was Joe typically a much better hitter at home as opposed to hitting on the road??

[jimmer]

 

I agree that the done was also a park that probably benefitted Joe and his hitting. Just curious, since I'm not willing to do it, was Joe typically a much better hitter at home as opposed to hitting on the road??

Pretty even home/away stats for his career (which includes TF).  Slightly better BA and OBP at home, slightly more power on the road.  The OPS difference between home and away is 11 points more on the road. 

 

As far as when they were in the dome, there were some seasons when was clearly way better on the road (2006, 2007), and then clearly way better at home (2008 and 2009).

 

For the six years he played in the Dome, it ended up pretty even between road and away stats.

[Twodogs]

Pretty even home/away stats for his career. Slightly better BA and OBP at home, slightly more power on the road. The OPS difference between home and away is 11 points more on the road.

I'm just making an assumption that the last few years in Target field has probably affected his power production somewhat? Also that he probably hit a little better in the dome and that Target field probably has appeared to have a negative effect on his numbers along with aging etc.... But that it's reasonable to conclude that had he kept playing in the dome that his numbers probably would have trended up a tick or two over the past few years and we probably wouldn't be all over him for his lack of production? Nonetheless he's had a great career, even though I hope he plays another year or so.

[jimmer]

 

I'm just making an assumption that the last few years in Target field has probably affected his power production somewhat? Also that he probably hit a little better in the dome and that Target field probably has appeared to have a negative effect on his numbers along with aging etc.... But that it's reasonable to conclude that had he kept playing in the dome that his numbers probably would have trended up a tick or two over the past few years and we probably wouldn't be all over him for his lack of production? Nonetheless he's had a great career, even though I hope he plays another year or so.

Well, we have to take into account the concussions (especially the one that ended his catching career) when looking at whether or not Target has sapped his power too, right?  

 

I don't know, he's never been a HR hitter in his career, besides one outlier season.

[Twodogs]

Well, we have to take into account the concussions (especially the one that ended his catching career) when looking at whether or not Target has sapped his power too, right?

 

I don't know, he's never been a HR hitter in his career, besides one outlier season.

Yeah the home runs have never really been there, but with the speed of the turf more doubles would have probably been in store, and yeah the concussions look to have hurt him overall.

[ewen21]

 

IDK, he won multiple batting titles, he is a professional, until the last few years he was pretty much always "money", you knew he was going to hit around .300. Also, I know for a fact that none of those teams nor their fans would have ever blamed him for their teams inability to sign other good players so as to blame him for their teams failures due to their inability to retain or gain talent, like the Twins media and fans have.

I don't think he has been "money" for a long LONG time.  I soured on Joe when he bunted in that game against Cleveland in the 2010 season..  Until then I was a big fan.  I even had a picture of him swinging as my screen saver.  Something happened to Joe between the 2010 and 2011 season.  When I saw him first come into ST in 2011 I saw red flags everywhere.  He looked like he did not do a blessed thing for the entire off season and that to me a major offense.  I paid attention to what he said very closely during this time and he kept reiterating how important it was to get "rest" and that he was taking "baby steps".

 

I think having that knee surgery (which was not major) and being swept by the Yankees again really did a number on him.  I think he retreated that winter and went into a deep slumber.  He looked frail.  It looked like he pretty much decided he would "rest" all winter and that plan didn't include any kind of strength training.  Five months of relative inactivity really can do a number on anyone.  Not only did it strike him physically, but also psychologically.  He knew he couldn't go before the season even started.  THen the Twins scrambled to make excuses because Joe went MIA.

 

In my opinion, Joe was very fortunate to be playing in his home market.  Had he been in any other town he would not have been protected the way the Twins protected him.  People were afraid of losing him to Boston or NY, but if he had this play out in either of those two towns he would have be demolished.  He was criticized, but only in the vast wasteland of the Internet.  The media barely touched it, imo.

 

THen with the lack of power and the excuses for that.  He hit more home runs on the road in 2009 (12) than he has in an entire season since.  The come up with the baloney excuse about Target Field steal his power really rung false with me.  Subtract out every single home run he hit in the Dome that year and just take his road numbers and he STILL hit more home runs than any year since.  The guy just stopped turning on the ball.  He always "went the other way" but he at least would turn on pitches enough where the whole league didn't put on this bizarre opposite field shift.

 

Just so many things about Joe I don't get.  He isn't my type of player and I think at this point he is more harmful than helpful to this team.  

[DrNeau]

I don’t think there’s anything for Joe to “decide”. If he gets a contract offer, he can then make a decision.