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Game Thread: Twins vs. Yankees, 12:10pm CDT 7/19/2017

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James FCL Twins

James

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James FCL Twins

James

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Great minds think alike.  

Guest

Guest

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Of course, why not? Again, give me a name who has negative WAR two consecutive years under 24 then become a first-division player in the future.

When Brian Dozier was 24, he was in AA. When he was 25, he had -0.5 fWAR. Fans were highly critical. I'd say that he's a first division regular. Aaron Hicks was virtually ran out of town for not performing before he turned 25. Now, he's looking like a potential All Star.

twinsnorth49 St Paul Saints

twinsnorth49

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44 year old starters, 24 year old under performing SS's at DH, sub .100 hitting rookie paperweights batting 2nd, missed cut-off throwing left fielders, inexplicable bullpen usage, 277 RISP left stranded, pages of moaning game threads.

 

tenor.gif

 

Win the series vs Yankees.

 

I love Baseball.

sampleSizeOfOne MVP

sampleSizeOfOne

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I will catch up presently on the game thread, but i figured i'd let everyone know fate has roundly punished me for my minimalism...

 

Missing a final dress rehearsal due to car troubles.

IndianaTwin Wichita Wind Surge

IndianaTwin

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Original question:

 

Of course, why not? Again, give me a name who has negative WAR two consecutive years under 24 then become a first-division player in the future.

 

My response: Harmon Killebrew

 

 

Another response: 

 

Probably not a fair comparison. When Killebrew came up there was a rule requiring that "bonus babies" had to stay in the majors. He accumulated a lot of AB when very young. It would be like Rooker or Lewis having to be on the Twins active roster now.

 

To Twinsbaby -- Which WAR are you using? Baseball-reference.com has Polanco at 0.3 and 0.1 in the Cup of Coffee years and 0.6 and 0.1 last year and this, for a career WAR of 1.0. Not good, but not negative either.

For comparison, Erick Aybar, Martin Prado, Michael Brantley, Jose Bautista, and Adrian Gonzalez all had a career WAR that was still negative at the same age. 

 

To PDXTwin, I agree Killebrew is not a completely fair comparison because of the "bonus baby" rule, but to some extent he still proves my point. We can look at it at least two ways. Either:

  • Killebrew was forced as a youngster to be in the majors by a bad rule and had a negative WAR as a result, while Polanco was forced as a youngster to be in the majors by a bad team choice and still had a slightly positive WAR; or
  • Killebrew, who had a negative WAR, probably would have benefited from time in the minors if that was an option, but the rules wouldn't allow it because he got too much money, while Polanco probably would have benefited from more time in the minors if that was an option, but the rules don't allow it because he got too much MLB time and he's out of options.

 

Again, I'm not saying he's going to be Killebrew (or even Dozier, who for comparison purposes, had not gotten above A+ at a similar age). None of us knows his work ethic, his future health, how he responds to adversity, and all the other stuff (including, frankly, luck) which will go into determining his future value.

 

But back to Twinsbaby -- none of that changes my basic point, which is that Polanco has been playing at a competition level that is well above his age. By virtue of that and by being athletic, he will be given every chance to succeed, both by the Twins and others (can you say Andy Marte?).

 

It's a fair question to ask whether the Twins are better off with Adrianza, Escobar, or even Vielma or Gordon at SS than they are with Polanco. I've really like Adrianza, for example. But another poster was right -- even Danny Santana brought something in a trade. He brought what looks like an AAAA pitcher and cash.

 

So if you're going to give up on Polanco (and I'm not saying you should or shouldn't -- personally, I wouldn't yet), find a trade partner and try to get a little more than Kevin Chapman and cash. So don't just DFA him. 

 

Guaranteed some other team has a pitcher that was highly thought of three years ago and hasn't pulled it together yet -- think Jake Arrieta before he became a Cub or Corey Kluber as a Padre prospect. Kluber wasn't that highly thought of and was still in AA when he was picked by the Indians (with Thad Lavine in the front office, by the way).

 

And I wasn't trying to be insensitive by naming the late Andy Marte -- do you remember that the Braves eventually gave up, but turned him into Edgar Renteria from the Red Sox? A month later, the Red Sox turned Marte (and others) into Coco Crisp (and others).  

 

Riverbrian Cooperstown

Riverbrian

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Aren't there way more viable 1B eligible guys than 3B?

 

Yeah... But Positional Flexibility is awesome BAY-BEE!!!

 

http://www.disneybymark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dickvitale.jpg

Blake All-Star

Blake

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I will catch up presently on the game thread, but i figured i'd let everyone know fate has roundly punished me for my minimalism...

Missing a final dress rehearsal due to car troubles.

You have rehearsals that are clothing optional?

Guest

Guest

Guests
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Posted

Original question:

 

 

 

My response: Harmon Killebrew

 

 

 

 

Another response: 

 

 

 

To Twinsbaby -- Which WAR are you using? Baseball-reference.com has Polanco at 0.3 and 0.1 in the Cup of Coffee years and 0.6 and 0.1 last year and this, for a career WAR of 1.0. Not good, but not negative either.

For comparison, Erick Aybar, Martin Prado, Michael Brantley, Jose Bautista, and Adrian Gonzalez all had a career WAR that was still negative at the same age. 

 

To PDXTwin, I agree Killebrew is not a completely fair comparison because of the "bonus baby" rule, but to some extent he still proves my point. We can look at it at least two ways. Either:

 

  • Killebrew was forced as a youngster to be in the majors by a bad rule and had a negative WAR as a result, while Polanco was forced as a youngster to be in the majors by a bad team choice and still had a slightly positive WAR; or
  • Killebrew, who had a negative WAR, probably would have benefited from time in the minors if that was an option, but the rules wouldn't allow it because he got too much money, while Polanco probably would have benefited from more time in the minors if that was an option, but the rules don't allow it because he got too much MLB time and he's out of options.
 

Again, I'm not saying he's going to be Killebrew (or even Dozier, who for comparison purposes, had not gotten above A+ at a similar age). None of us knows his work ethic, his future health, how he responds to adversity, and all the other stuff (including, frankly, luck) which will go into determining his future value.

 

But back to Twinsbaby -- none of that changes my basic point, which is that Polanco has been playing at a competition level that is well above his age. By virtue of that and by being athletic, he will be given every chance to succeed, both by the Twins and others (can you say Andy Marte?).

 

It's a fair question to ask whether the Twins are better off with Adrianza, Escobar, or even Vielma or Gordon at SS than they are with Polanco. I've really like Adrianza, for example. But another poster was right -- even Danny Santana brought something in a trade. He brought what looks like an AAAA pitcher and cash.

 

So if you're going to give up on Polanco (and I'm not saying you should or shouldn't -- personally, I wouldn't yet), find a trade partner and try to get a little more than Kevin Chapman and cash. So don't just DFA him. 

 

Guaranteed some other team has a pitcher that was highly thought of three years ago and hasn't pulled it together yet -- think Jake Arrieta before he became a Cub or Corey Kluber as a Padre prospect. Kluber wasn't that highly thought of and was still in AA when he was picked by the Indians (with Thad Lavine in the front office, by the way).

 

And I wasn't trying to be insensitive by naming the late Andy Marte -- do you remember that the Braves eventually gave up, but turned him into Edgar Renteria from the Red Sox? A month later, the Red Sox turned Marte (and others) into Coco Crisp (and others).

Torii Hunter had -0.1 and 0.1 fWAR his first two full time seasons. Cristian Guzman had negative fWAR his first two seasons, before becoming an All Star in year three, where he suffered a mysterious career altering injury.

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