Buyers or Sellers?

[Kwak]

I'm in favor of a major addition or subtraction--but I don't think ownership will permit it as long as Molitor is "on the hot seat".

[Champuckett]

There is little evidence so far to indicate that the Twins will be buyers.  I don't think I'm alone when I say we really need to see some sign that the front office will make a move to improve this team in the pitching department, but I'm still waiting, twiddling my thumbs.  We had an entire offseason and we have had up until the halfway point of the season into June to make some substantial additions to pitching and nothing was done beyond bargain bin and minor league acquisitions.  The closest thing, and by far biggest investment we got, was a catcher that was a top 5 pitch framer.  Alright, good.  Now the focus should be pitching, right?

 

It's not likely to happen, because either:

 

A) the front office is still in assessment mode, which they have stated multiple times, and they aren't ready to pull the trigger on anything big yet or..

 

B ) the front office is hamstrung by financial restrictions and soft caps made by the owners, that the average fans are not aware of and they allude to A) being the reasoning

 

 

They got burned on some starting pitching in recent years, with Santana being the only success.  This makes the likelihood we sign a big name SP or a solid bp guy with a large contract even less likely.  We will be either sellers or we will remain neutral.  The best thing we can do is wait and hope for the offseason to see what Falvey and Levine will do now that they have a full year under their belt at the helm.  If they still don't pursue anything substantial pitching wise, then the whole "assessment" period was a ruse and we will be entering TR 2.0 territory, which I think most Twins fans would not be happy with.

[Respy]

 

I hadn't realized how much Pitt is struggling this year. Cole is more name than elite pitcher. Polanco is a disaster for them. Marte was suspended for PEDs. Their #1 prospect, Austin Meadows, is a stud OFer but having a rough time in AAA (but he'll be fine in the long run). And McCutchen is no longer the all-star he used to be. They should be selling a lot of guys.  Not sure how they'd fit with the Twins but is Polanco a change of scenery guy or just a hacker?  He's under a longterm contract but I'm not sure if he's a better bet than Rosario (for the risk). Would Pitt want to move him to make room for Meadows? 

 

Polanco has been, and always will be, an injury nightmare.  They'd never give him up anyways because he has tons of potential and he's still cheap for them.  Gerrit Cole is worth mentioning, but I think would still require a massive prospect haul despite his recent health issues.  Being realistic, if the Twins are talking to the Pirates, it would most likely be for Daniel Hudson or Wade LeBlanc.  Both have been OK (by no means good) out of the bullpen this year.  Either would be a slight upgrade to our bullpen.  And, both of them are capable of spot starting.  Hudson is 30 and would be $5.5M this year and $5.5M next year.  Not too bad.  LeBlanc is affordable at $750k this year and $1.25M next year, plus arbitration in 2019, but he's already 32 and would need to fit into our plans.  

 

Nicasio would also be an option, but I think the cost would be too high as he's having a fine year, and becomes a free agent at the end of the year. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Posters still talk about rebuilding, and then talk about being a couple pitchers away.

 

Well, go get that next starter, maybe some guy on the outs in another organization. The scouts and insiders probably know some names. Then, find another guy for the relief corps, whether from the outside, or Hughes, Gibson, or one of these AAA starters whose stuff might play better in the bullpen.

 

It might not work for this year, but at least you tried. It doesn't have to be a multi-year process. It doesn't have to interfere with the long term vision the front office has.

 

Two more guys. Rebuild complete. Pennant chase is on.

[glunn]

 

Posters still talk about rebuilding, and then talk about being a couple pitchers away.

Well, go get that next starter, maybe some guy on the outs in another organization. The scouts and insiders probably know some names. Then, find another guy for the relief corps, whether from the outside, or Hughes, Gibson, or one of these AAA starters whose stuff might play better in the bullpen.

It might not work for this year, but at least you tried. It doesn't have to be a multi-year process. It doesn't have to interfere with the long term vision the front office has.

Two more guys. Rebuild complete. Pennant chase is on.

That sounds good, but the Twins are not the only team that needs a better #4 or #5 and who would be willing to pay for that. I suspect that they are trying every day to come up with better pitching, but the pickings seem slim. 

[akmanak]

The Twins are sellers plain and simple. When we are 6 games behind first place at the end of the weekend you will also draw the same conclusion. This team has to many holes and such a weak farm system that it will take about 2 years to get to a point were we can actually compete with major league teams.

 

Trade Santana, Dozier, Hughes, Perkins, Gibson, and possibly Buxton. You have so many holes to fill and need to start somewhere.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I think it's a totally valid point - tough to be a seller in a buyer's market and vice versa.  I'm just not convinced it will be a buyer's market.  That said, right now 13 AL teams are within 3 games of a playoff spot.  The NL is more spread out though.

 

I'd be a but surprised if it's a buyers market.  It's usually a sellers market vs. a strong sellers market.  Last year, for instance, was very strong in favor of sellers, and with the additional wild card, I don't see much change there.  Most sellers are selling b/c they have a lot of bad players and buyers don't want those.

 

I'll freely admit that a guy like Santana would be without question the type of player that a good team would send over several good prospects for... the problem is that he fits a big need in our org too.

[drjim]

FWIW, Jon Heyman put out a ranking of trade assets:

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-baseball-96-players-traded-ranked-value/amp/

 

Erv is #5, Dozier #19, Kintzler #34.

[akmanak]

Sell sell sell

[Doomtints]

Sellers. Twins are trying to run the wrong way on the conveyor belt now.

[Twodogs]

Hey Hector Santiago is like #89 on the list

[caninatl04]

As I write this, the Twins have lost two straight series.

 

There are 19 games before the trade deadline gets serious on July 27th.

 

Of the six series, there are three were the Twins will be competitive (Orioles, Angels and Tigers) but three where they won't (Astros, Dodgers and Yankees).

 

My "guess" is that the Twins will win maybe 7 or 8 of these games and will be roughly six games out of first. And about the same out of the Wild Card.

 

I would put up for sale:

• any starting pitcher not named Berrios
• Kinzler (in whom the Nationals might be very interested)
• Adrianza
• a catcher (Giminez's OPS isn't too far below the league average)
• Dozier (the Blue Jays might be interested)

 

[yarnivek1972]

Doubt too many people would be interested in an injured Adrianza. Probably get better return for Escobar. It would also relieve Molitor of the temptation to believe that Escobar is a starter. I don't think it is a coincidence that Polanco started to slump offensively and defensively when Escobar started playing more. Polanco needs to play everyday IMO.

[old nurse]

Nobody on the team should be untouchable. A couple should be very high priced. None of the pending free agents will bring much more than a high potential low level prospect back.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

.do the Twins extend Dozier 2-3 years and at what price?

 

The same price they paid when they extended Capps, Hughes, and Suzuki...

[drew_7726]

Selllers!!!

 Dozier and Melotakis to the dodgers for Buehler, Calhoun,and maybe even Urias

Santana to the Blue jays for Vlad jr and Patrick Murphy

Kintzler to the Nats for Erick Feede

[drjim]

I really don't think the Twins should sell, especially not yet, but if it comes to that point, Cubs would potentially make a lot of sense. They need a starter and a backup catcher.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-asked-tigers-about-availability-of-verlander-avila.html

[jimmer]

Hopefully the FO doesn't think this team is an actual contender and does the smart thing at the deadline. Though, based on last trade deadline.

[kab21]

I see two moves for the Twins

 

A) Trade Dozier or Escobar for decent pitching prospects that could be up by the end of 2018. 

 

B-) Trade some mediocre prospect or two for sort of decent starter and/or bullpen arm

 

I would trade Santana for the kind of return that some think is possible. The problem is that everyone makes an argument about why to trade Santana (he's old, he was injured before, he was suspended, he almost shares a name with Magic) and they think that only Twins Daily knows is aware of these things.

[Huddy]

I would love if we could trade Santana to lets say the Yankees for lets say Chance Adams and maybe a guy like Zach Littell or even Acevedo if we are lucky. 

[Huddy]

 

Selllers!!!

 Dozier and Melotakis to the dodgers for Buehler, Calhoun,and maybe even Urias

Santana to the Blue jays for Vlad jr and Patrick Murphy

Kintzler to the Nats for Erick Feede

In what world would the Blue Jays give up Vlad Jr for an aging Pitcher... i just dont see it. The nats would never give up their best pitching prospect for a decent reliever. And the dodgers would MAYBE give up Buehler. But not all 3..... Urias is hurt anyways.

[Huddy]

 

In what world would the Blue Jays give up Vlad Jr for an aging Pitcher... i just dont see it. The nats would never give up their best pitching prospect for a decent reliever. And the dodgers would MAYBE give up Buehler. But not all 3..... Urias is hurt anyways.

On top of that... That would be like us trading Nick Gordon, Stephen Gonsalves and Fernando Romero for a circa 2012 Brandon Phillips....

[sploorp]

Why does the team have to be one or the other?  They're not hurting money wise, so there is no need to dump salary.  They can just sit back and consider whatever is offered.  The only thing I wouldn't want to see them do is go after a rental.  Other than that, I don't see why filling any hole on the roster couldn't help them in the present while still having a little upside for down the road.

[HitInAPinch]

Personally, I'd wait to see what happens after the All-Star break.  

[Huddy]

 

Personally, I'd wait to see what happens after the All-Star break.  

I'm hoping that when Molly said that they have a lot of evaluating to do that means that they may start to give some of the younger up and comers within the system a chance to get their feet wet. Not full blown Padres obviously. I think it's a teeter totter between seeing what we have within the system at the highest level as well as keeping the casual fan interested at this point.

[Doomtints]

I have gone back and forth a bit over this.

 

Around the ASG the Twins have a tough stretch of schedule, so we will know by the trade deadline if they should buy or if they should sell. Right now, it looks like the Twins are an admirable team, but they won't make the playoffs.

[drjim]

I might be in the camp of doing pretty much nothing.

 

I don't think they should give up significant assets for a rental.

 

I don't think they should trade any assets that help in 2018 for prospects that are more than a year away (unless of course they are blown away).

 

The only free agents to be they have are Santiago, who isn't going to bring anything back right now, and Kintzler. Kintzler certainly has value, but it's really not going to be that much, and they are hurting for relievers so much. If they are hanging in on the fringes, might as well just keep him.

 

I'd be in favor of adding a cheap reliever or veteran bat, those can drop in late July or August. But I wouldn't pay a premium right now.

 

I'd also be in favor of trading an OF (Rosario, Grossman, Granite) or an IF (Dozier, Polanco, Gordon) for a mlb pitcher, but I'm skeptical they can pull it off, and the premium on pitching at the deadline works against them relative to the offseason.

 

Buckle up for the excitement!

[gocgo]

I'll be the contrarian here.  We buy...but we don't rent.  We buy if there is someone who we feel will help us long term.  Pitching is the most obvious, but everyone needs pitching and the only pitching we should be moving right now is Santiago.  I'd love to see some of the young guys be given a shot at that 5th rotation spot.  Mejia looks good and what is most impressive is that guys look baffled by him the 2nd and 3rd time thru the lineup...not so with Gibson, but as a 4th guy in the rotation, we could do worse.  I'd hang on to him for now.

 

Long term, we are going to need a big league bat.  Our DH spot is not strong.  Grossman gets on base and fills the role, but DH is a game changer spot.  As much as people beat up Joe, he's really, really good at first base.  We take it for granted, but you don't realize how important the position is until you have a weak link over there.  Our defense is very solid right now.  Polanco at SS is better than we thought he would be and Sano has made some great plays at 3rd and is solid.  Dozier at 2nd adds stability and makes the plays that he should.  Esco and Adrianza as backups is a luxury.  Our catching is pretty good too.  I wouldn't sell much.  I'd buy for the long term.

[Vanimal46]

 

I might be in the camp of doing pretty much nothing.

 

I don't think they should give up significant assets for a rental.

 

I don't think they should trade any assets that help in 2018 for prospects that are more than a year away (unless of course they are blown away).

 

The only free agents to be they have are Santiago, who isn't going to bring anything back right now, and Kintzler. Kintzler certainly has value, but it's really not going to be that much, and they are hurting for relievers so much. If they are hanging in on the fringes, might as well just keep him.

 

I'd be in favor of adding a cheap reliever or veteran bat, those can drop in late July or August. But I wouldn't pay a premium right now.

 

I'd also be in favor of trading an OF (Rosario, Grossman, Granite) or an IF (Dozier, Polanco, Gordon) for a mlb pitcher, but I'm skeptical they can pull it off, and the premium on pitching at the deadline works against them relative to the offseason.

 

Buckle up for the excitement!

 

You're probably right, sadly... I really don't like wasting an All-Star season from Sano and a healthy starting 9 because that's never guaranteed the next season. 

 

As far as the 6 players you mentioned, I'd lean towards featuring Rosario and Gordon in an off-season trade for pitching. Rosario IMO moves the needle more than Grossman (good hitter, average on a good day fielder) and Granite (unproven) to acquire better talent. Gordon being the touted prospect flying up rankings list should entice teams to give up a quality player too. And frankly, I don't know if Gordon is for real or not. The stats are great, but looking into it more, he's rarely used against LHP. When he has played against a southpaw, the numbers aren't good at all. 

[yarnivek1972]

You're probably right, sadly... I really don't like wasting an All-Star season from Sano and a healthy starting 9 because that's never guaranteed the next season.

 

As far as the 6 players you mentioned, I'd lean towards featuring Rosario and Gordon in an off-season trade for pitching. Rosario IMO moves the needle more than Grossman (good hitter, average on a good day fielder) and Granite (unproven) to acquire better talent. Gordon being the touted prospect flying up rankings list should entice teams to give up a quality player too. And frankly, I don't know if Gordon is for real or not. The stats are great, but looking into it more, he's rarely used against LHP. When he has played against a southpaw, the numbers aren't good at all.

If the AA manager is intentionally giving Gordon days off vs LHP I consider that a developmental failure. He isn't going to get better vs LHP if he doesn't face them.