An Upside Down World

[MMMordabito]

I'm going to take my turn at generalizing ...

 

Here's what I think 99% of the people flying rebel flags are thinking:

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Probably because they don't give two s#$ts what a bunch of northerners think.  

 

You lack perspective but somehow still seem obliged to judge.

 

Tell the college football team idea to an Ole Miss grad .... They get the same general flak.

You think it's only people from the North that see the problem with the confederate flag? Or are you only counting the opinions of white people?

[KirbyDome89]

 

1) I never equated Charlottesville to Nazi Germany (though it is worth noting someone actually died in Charlottesville).  (And if you don't see the differences between Antifa and the history and present of violence from white supremacists and other right wing movements, it's because you're choosing not to.)

2) I, nor anyone here, justified the violence from Antifa.  Violence sucks. From anywhere. Thank god they haven't killed anyone. 

 

Way to beat up those straw men! A true hero, lucky us. Don Quixote says hi.  

You continue to offer "historical scope," as evidence that one rationale for violence is worse than the other. That is equating the two time periods. Thank you for demonstrating once again, that there can be no in house condemnation without qualifiers. 

 

Downplaying or disregarding Antifa's social reach, motives, actions, ect is justifying the violence. That's consistent through this thread. Ignorance, whether willful or unintentional, is bliss though right? 

[ewen21]

This is true for me. I do not justify violence from Antifa. Though I can understand how other posters with other points of view might mis-read my words.

 

Nazis and white supremicists are violent, they court violence, and there are individuals from the opposite end of the spectrum (anarchists, or Antifa) who are violent against this group. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Question for you, what are we supposed to do about this normalization of violence in daily life?

What about normal law abiding people who choose to show support for our president and get attacked for wearing a hat? When you say what are people supposed to do about racists and Nazis people are taking it upon themselves to attack others wearing MAGA hats. That's evidence enough for a lot of people as proof someobe is a racist and it's sickening

[ewen21]

Who is the arbiter of what's racist and what isn't? If you attack people for a hat or a shirt you need to check yourself. If I see a shirt that says "I HATE WHITE GUYS" I'm walking right past it. I don't need to have patience for people who simply attack

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

What about normal law abiding people who choose to show support for our president and get attacked for wearing a hat? When you say what are people supposed to do about racists and Nazis people are taking it upon themselves to attack others wearing MAGA hats. That's evidence enough for a lot of people as proof someobe is a racist and it's sickening

I’m not talking about MAGA hats. MAGA hats are not the reason Antifa assembles.

[ewen21]

I’m not talking about MAGA hats. MAGA hats are not the reason Antifa assembles.

Yes, I am sorry I quoted you.

 

I was wondering what makes a white supremacist. Seems to me all a lot of people need is a hat.

 

As far as Antifa goes I have no interest in that discussion.

 

Sorry I picked your post

[PseudoSABR]

 

You continue to offer "historical scope," as evidence that one rationale for violence is worse than the other. That is equating the two time periods. Thank you for demonstrating once again, that there can be no in house condemnation without qualifiers. 

 

Downplaying or disregarding Antifa's social reach, motives, actions, ect is justifying the violence. That's consistent through this thread. Ignorance, whether willful or unintentional, is bliss though right? 

Look white supremacy does have historical scope.  That doesn't mean I'm comparing it to the Nazis, which is what you accused me.  You're once again moving the goal posts.

 

Putting Antifa in context is part of having a discussion about extremism and violence.  It DOES NOT justify it.  Does your silence on right wing violence signal that you condone such violence?  HOW MUCH MORE LOUDLY CAN I CONDEMN WHAT ANTIFA DOES!? VIOLENCE IS WRONG!  

 

Like I said above, we need to hold those who are close to us ideologically accountable.  Are you doing, your part? 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Downplaying or disregarding Antifa's social reach, motives, actions, ect is justifying the violence. That's consistent through this thread. Ignorance, whether willful or unintentional, is bliss though right?

 

That’s not true. I’ve already wrongly accused another poster of being sympathetic to WWII Nazis in this thread. Don’t stretch logic the same way and accuse other posters of being sympathetic to violence committed by Antifa. And yes, I am downplaying Antifa’s reach. You said earlier they were a new organization, and I corrected you. So I think the burden is on you to show me that they have some great social reach at this point. Likewise, their stated motive is to fight Nazis and other similar groups. Acknowledging that motive does not make one sympathetic to it.

[Craig Arko]

So, my general feeling is that if a person chooses to support traitors and/or cowards, that is their right under the First Amendment. It just means any claims made must be evaluated in light of that support.

 

I think both Antifa and the Proud boys are cowardly, and as a consequence support neither.

 

Violence is always immoral; however there are circumstances where it is nevertheless necessary. For example, the case of the Allies in the Second World War, as mentioned above. I don’t see how that could be true in Charlottesville or Portland. Are there any good counter arguments to that?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Look white supremacy does have historical scope.  That doesn't mean I'm comparing it to the Nazis, which is what you accused me.  You're once again moving the goal posts.

 

Putting Antifa in context is part of having a discussion about extremism and violence.  It DOES NOT justify it.  Does your silence on right wing violence signal that you condone such violence?  HOW MUCH MORE LOUDLY CAN I CONDEMN WHAT ANTIFA DOES!? VIOLENCE IS WRONG!  

 

Like I said above, we need to hold those who are close to us ideologically accountable.  Are you doing, your part? 

My stance has remained consistent; the goalposts haven't been touched on my end. You continue to bring it up, and subsequently claim it isn't to link the past to the present. What then is the purpose of adding that criteria if we're talking about the actions of these groups in 2019?

 

Calling Antifa a biannual occurrence isn't putting them into context. It's an obvious effort to minimize what the group is, and I'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you know that. Was I silent though? Did I not also label right wing groups as extremists, or vilify attacking individuals based on skin color? Do I really need to make a separate post detailing why neo Nazis beating a black man in the streets is wrong, or can we all just agree we're on the same page when it comes to dealing with far right groups?

 

Part of accountability is protecting certain principles no matter who is violating them. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

That’s not true. I’ve already wrongly accused another poster of being sympathetic to WWII Nazis in this thread. Don’t stretch logic the same way and accuse other posters of being sympathetic to violence committed by Antifa. And yes, I am downplaying Antifa’s reach. You said earlier they were a new organization, and I corrected you. So I think the burden is on you to show me that they have some great social reach at this point. Likewise, their stated motive is to fight Nazis and other similar groups. Acknowledging that motive does not make one sympathetic to it.

You cannot in one breath admit to downplaying the motives/actions of Antifa and then in the next claim you aren't excusing them. You can continue to say you're against the violence, but the second you start qualifying those statements or minimizing what Antifa actually is, that sentiment begins to ring hollow. I'm not stretching any logic to get to that conclusion. 

 

Look up ARA and the spawn of what we know as Antifa. I'm not wrong about them being relatively new to the scene, and if your stance is that the 80s don't qualify as "new," then we'll chalk it up to semantics and move on. It isn't my responsibility to educate you. Create a Twitter account and start poking around. Start with large groups like RCA and move from there. Check independent news sources. Go find FB groups and IG pages. I've already told you to check out the podcast Tim Pool did Joe Rogan regarding how groups like Antifa are sheltered. There's plenty out there to keep you busy. 

 

Their stated motive doesn't align with their actions, and even if it did, I've made my stance clear regarding violence towards ideology.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

You cannot in one breath admit to downplaying the motives/actions of Antifa and then in the next claim you aren't excusing them. You can continue to say you're against the violence, but the second you start qualifying those statements or minimizing what Antifa actually is, that sentiment begins to ring hollow. I'm not stretching any logic to get to that conclusion. 

Putting facts into context is not downplaying, nor is it justification.  Just stop.  

 

You don't post when rightwing violence happens, should we extend that to your motives? If not, I think you should back off the edge from which you're singing. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Putting facts into context is not downplaying, nor is it justification.  Just stop.  

 

You don't post when rightwing violence happens, should we extend that to your motives? If not, I think you should back off the edge from which you're singing. 

Antifa isn't a biannual blip on the radar. It's not contextualization to state that; you're purposefully misrepresenting what the group actually is because identity politics doesn't allow for true internal critique lest the high ground be lost. You preach accountability but you can't level even the smallest amount of criticism towards Antifa without qualifying it. I don't believe for once second that you would disagree with me if I said the marginalization of a group like the Proud Boys, by extension, excuses their actions to a degree. Swapping Antifa into that equation shouldn't change the outcome....

 

Again, where I stand between these two extremes has been made clear; reread old posts if necessary. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Antifa isn't a biannual blip on the radar. It's not contextualization to state that; you're purposefully misrepresenting what the group actually is because identity politics doesn't allow for true internal critique lest the high ground be lost. You preach accountability but you can't level even the smallest amount of criticism towards Antifa without qualifying it. I don't believe for once second that you would disagree with me if I said the marginalization of a group like the Proud Boys, by extension, excuses their actions to a degree. Swapping Antifa into that equation shouldn't change the outcome....

 

Again, where I stand between these two extremes has been made clear; reread old posts if necessary. 

Okay, I'll bite.  What are the other violent offenses attributable to Antifa in the last year? 

[Craig Arko]

https://www.rightattitudes.com/2017/06/16/rapoport-rules-criticism/

[ashbury]

https://www.rightattitudes.com/2017/06/16/rapoport-rules-criticism/

Looks like the initial draft of the Twins Daily Comment Policy. We had to tone down its absolutism, though.

 

 

 

j/k

[ewen21]

Okay, I'll bite. What are the other violent offenses attributable to Antifa in the last year?

Google "Antifa Violence" under NEWS then narrow the search to "last year"

 

Hit return. Read.

 

It's that simple really

[PseudoSABR]

 

Google "Antifa Violence" under NEWS then narrow the search to "last year"

Hit return. Read.

It's that simple really

I'm guessing you actually didn't do this, because that search result shows the same story over and over again (about Portland).

[Mike Sixel]

Not a fan of Antifa and their approach at all. Really, you two are the only ones still discussing this......

[KirbyDome89]

 

Okay, I'll bite.  What are the other violent offenses attributable to Antifa in the last year? 

Saturday in DC

 

Police had to use physical force to prevent Antifa members from jumping barricades and attacking Proud Boys members at multiple locations along the route of their rally. There was still at least one reported incident between the two groups. That's just a few days ago.....

[ewen21]

I'm guessing you actually didn't do this, because that search result shows the same story over and over again (about Portland).

You're guessing I didn't. That's your downfall.

 

My return did not give me nothing but the same story. Try harder

[Badsmerf]

Looks like the initial draft of the Twins Daily Comment Policy. We had to tone down its absolutism, though.

 

 

 

j/k

I was the recipient of many warning points in the baseball forums.... Now, I just choose to inject snark like a cosmetologist injects botox in California.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/holocaust-museum-aoc-detention-centers-immigration.html

[Craig Arko]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/holocaust-museum-aoc-detention-centers-immigration.html

“But the moral lesson of the Holocaust is not that you risk being a victim. The moral lesson of the Holocaust is the danger that you will ignore the victims. Or torment them. Or worse.”

[Vanimal46]

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1150458903290929156?s=19

 

Antifa's getting louder.

 

https://summit.news/2019/07/14/terrorist-who-firebombed-ice-facility-wrote-in-manifesto-i-am-antifa/

[Squirrel]

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1150458903290929156?s=19

Antifa's getting louder.

https://summit.news/2019/07/14/terrorist-who-firebombed-ice-facility-wrote-in-manifesto-i-am-antifa/

Summit News? Aren’t they owned by the same person who owns infowars?

[Squirrel]

 

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1150458903290929156?s=19

Antifa's getting louder.

https://summit.news/2019/07/14/terrorist-who-firebombed-ice-facility-wrote-in-manifesto-i-am-antifa/

Not to mention, after I googled Jack Posobiec, and found out he is an alt-right internet troll, is that the Jack Posobiec you are getting your news from now? Seriously? Come on, van. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

 

Is this the same one whose twitter you just pasted here?

[Vanimal46]

Not to mention, after I googled Jack Posobiec, and found out he is an alt-right internet troll, is that the Jack Posobiec you are getting your news from now? Seriously? Come on, van.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

 

Is this the same one whose twitter you just pasted here?

Don't know. Don't follow him. However, he obtained the nut job's manifesto. Which is more important than the person who delivered the message, no?

[Vanimal46]

Plus, it shows once again major media outlets either dropping the ball on this story, or just ignoring it all together. They're too busy analyzing Trump's tweets over the weekend.