Molitor

[drjim]

That's the point...hes not very good at working with the talent he has.

 

He was given 2 relievers today specifically so he didn't have to run out his worn out bullpen, except in emergency.

 

What does he do?

 

And then, when he decides to use it anyway, when it is clear to everyone, within 2 hitters, that Pressley doesn't have it, he waits until the game is in doubt, and then...THEN...makes a move.

 

Now the game is in doubt, and you HAVE to use your pen wisely.

 

So what does he Do? Breslow, with no RHer ready so that the opposing manager can PH Caddis, with no fear of a move by Molitor, because...nobody is warming.

 

Managers don't matter?

I think he has been good with what he has been given. There have been some meltdowns, but otherwise he has handled a very mediocre bullpen quite well.

 

The arms called up today were not brought here to pitch late innings with a lead. There were org filler guys here to eat innings if there was a short start.

 

Pressly didn't have it, but the alternatives were worse. I realize our opinions are not easily reconciled, but we interpret the options differently. I don't blame Molitor for the lack of talent he has to work with, I credit the fact he has guided this group to the success they've had so far.

[Blake]

 

My opinion? It was less moving pieces. Unless you remove Grossman from DH, you shift Kepler to CF, move Rosario to RF, and you are just moving too many pieces all at once.

As I mentioned above, this is the second time Molitor could have given up the DH in order to have better defenders in the outfield. Late in the game, this can be huge. It isn't too many moving pieces, this is the kind of thing a manager should be doing. 

 

My .02.

[Platoon]

I preface the following knowing Molitor is going nowhere because if you were not allowed to change managers last winter, you won't be allowed to whence in first place. That said, Molitor has always burned his bullpen guys. He sits there and begs for pitchers one day, and refuses to use the the replacements the next. I agree the pitchers brought up weren't exactly Cy Young caliber, but in this situation they should have been used. This is not an isolated incident nor is his use of pitch runners for a DH when down 4 runs, or incessant odd bunts. Today when up 6 late he could have lost the DH, put RG in LF and PH for the pitchers spot since they were likely all one inning appearances anyway. This may seems very silly to say about a guy who has been in baseball that long, but he just does not seem to have a feel for the game. He gives the appearance of sometimes making move solely to make moves. Sometimes a manger needs to simply sit on his hands, and sometimes he needs to use both of them. He doesn't seem to understand the difference.

[gunnarthor]

I thought he should have been fired last year but there's no way Molitor is the manager next year. He's got this year on his contract. Levine and Falvey aren't going to extend him but Pohlad probably won't let him get fired.

[Blake]

 

I was not ware of Vargas' demotion. That's sad and a bunch of other things I will not mention.

 

The Twins would look like idiots and overtly reactionary if they fired Molitor now. This team is playing pretty good for the most part - way above expectations.

 

I see that RB said that before for the most part, but I just wanted to get my two cents in.

Looking at this game in isolation, yes, it's an over reaction. However, the Twins have to play every single day for the next few weeks. Molitor should have gone with the fresh arms, whatever the outcome, because the bullpen needed a break due to the grueling schedule coming up.

 

The manager should manage not just from game to game, but also manage for games down the road. I think today was a significant failure on the part of Mr. Molitor when it comes to setting up the team for the next few weeks.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Looking at this game in isolation, yes, it's an over reaction. However, the Twins have to play every single day for the next few weeks. Molitor should have gone with the fresh arms, whatever the outcome, because the bullpen needed a break due to the grueling schedule coming up.

 

The manager should manage not just from game to game, but also manage for games down the road. I think today was a significant failure on the part of Mr. Molitor when it comes to setting up the team for the next few weeks.

I didn't see the game today, thank goodness. Everyone makes mistakes, the best, the worst, etc.

 

The Twins don't have many bullpen arms of worth. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I don't have any faith in any of the BP arms, maybe Duffey, but he has had his ups and downs also.

 

Maybe Molitor played it day to day today and he screwed up. As I have witnessed during my tenure on this site, people have knee jerk reactions and strong opinions. This is how I view this thread.

 

This team is a work in progress.

[Riverbrian]

 

My opinion? It was less moving pieces. Unless you remove Grossman from DH, you shift Kepler to CF, move Rosario to RF, and you are just moving too many pieces all at once.

 

If that is the case... I can see his line of thinking but in my opinion. You need your option B in CF because CF is by far the most important position in the OF and his past actions suggest that he believes that option B is Kepler because that's the guy he puts in there.

 

I'm not worked up over this... Just curious. It bit us because that drop by Rosario was huge but that's baseball. It goes that way sometimes. I still believe Rosario is a nice defensive OF. 

 

Regardless... with Vargas down... Grossman is the primary DH. Rosario in LF, Buxton in CF and Kepler in RF and Adrianaza is the only backup and Molitor isn't comfortable with him out there if his first choice CF backup option remains in RF when Buxton gets hurt. 

 

We may have to drop Adrianaza and pick up an OF he trusts to play all 3 positions immediately. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Looking at this game in isolation, yes, it's an over reaction. However, the Twins have to play every single day for the next few weeks. Molitor should have gone with the fresh arms, whatever the outcome, because the bullpen needed a break due to the grueling schedule coming up.

 

The manager should manage not just from game to game, but also manage for games down the road. I think today was a significant failure on the part of Mr. Molitor when it comes to setting up the team for the next few weeks.

 

His post game comments say it all. Two fresh arms were called up before a series with one of the best offensive teams in the game and a 6 run lead wasn't enough. He certainly wasn't expecting an 8 or 9 run lead.... would that be enough?

 

So that means... Two guys were called up for the sole purpose of being used only if Santana was knocked out early and the team was down big or it's another extra inning game and every other experienced option was used. There is no other scenario that could have possibly happened that Paul would have went with the new guys against a team like the Astros. 

 

"When (you're facing) one of the best offensive teams in the game with a six-run lead, you're going to go with your experience and guys that you feel should get people out."

 

 

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/27334974/v1441948883/houmin-molitor-on-hard-loss-to-astros

 

 

He made excuses for the guys by saying they were taxed by yesterdays game. 

 

 

Nothing was done to untax the taxed bullpen. We got another game tomorrow it seems against the same offense. 

 

Was this Molitor or Levine who insisted on the cardboard cutouts being added to the 25 man roster? 

 

 

[drjim]

Wait, people are now complaining because he didn't use Robbie Grossman (!) as a defensive replacement?

[drjim]

I preface the following knowing Molitor is going nowhere because if you were not allowed to change managers last winter, you won't be allowed to whence in first place. That said, Molitor has always burned his bullpen guys. He sits there and begs for pitchers one day, and refuses to use the the replacements the next. I agree the pitchers brought up weren't exactly Cy Young caliber, but in this situation they should have been used. This is not an isolated incident nor is his use of pitch runners for a DH when down 4 runs, or incessant odd bunts. Today when up 6 late he could have lost the DH, put RG in LF and PH for the pitchers spot since they were likely all one inning appearances anyway. This may seems very silly to say about a guy who has been in baseball that long, but he just does not seem to have a feel for the game. He gives the appearance of sometimes making move solely to make moves. Sometimes a manger needs to simply sit on his hands, and sometimes he needs to use both of them. He doesn't seem to understand the difference.

I admire your ability to rip Molitor for both making too many moves and not enough moves in the same post.

 

But that is second in my mind to saying Molitor has no feel for the game.

[Platoon]

Wait, people are now complaining because he didn't use Robbie Grossman (!) as a defensive replacement?

Trust me, it hurt deeply to write that. But I kept an empty waste basket next to me and typed it anyway. Just think if you were RG, and a debate raged over your defensive acumen, over that of a reserve infielder who's only appearance in the OF was to run sprints!

[drjim]

This whole thread had been gold.

[Riverbrian]

 

This whole thread had been gold.

 

We got two cardboard cutouts on the 25 man. 

 

Do I ever love baseball!!!

[USAFChief]

Wait, people are now complaining because he didn't use Robbie Grossman (!) as a defensive replacement?

As opposed to Adrianza? Yeah, I think it's a fair question.

[Platoon]

I admire your ability to rip Molitor for both making too many moves and not enough moves in the same post.

But that is second in my mind to saying Molitor has no feel for the game.

Actuallly they are intertwined. One can make too many moves, or not enough. And it's the feel for the game that determines that. And I don't think he has one. You can set anyone in front of a spread sheet before a game, and he can read it, and set a lineup based on the numbers. But when injuries, extra innings, and emergency call ups rear their inconvenient head, that's where the seat of your pants comes in. Nor are there any handy stats that will tell you whether to PH or pinch run a singles hitter for you DH with extra AB's left in the game.

[twinsnorth49]

 

This whole thread had been gold.

And everyone has helped it reach that status.

[USAFChief]

This whole thread had been gold.

If so, Molitor was platinum today.

[Twodogs]

 

I'm not blaming the lack of talent of the bullpen on Molitor, I have been saying all off season and season that it was a big time fail to not address it in anything resembling a meaningful way.

I don't think molitor does himself a lot of favors with the Pen though. I do think he can tend to overthink it, and doesn't have a quick enough hook at times.

Probably should have hooked him right after the bean ball.

[Mike Sixel]

I think he has been good with what he has been given. There have been some meltdowns, but otherwise he has handled a very mediocre bullpen quite well.

The arms called up today were not brought here to pitch late innings with a lead. There were org filler guys here to eat innings if there was a short start.

Pressly didn't have it, but the alternatives were worse. I realize our opinions are not easily reconciled, but we interpret the options differently. I don't blame Molitor for the lack of talent he has to work with, I credit the fact he has guided this group to the success they've had so far.

If they can't pitch with a six run lead, then when could they, in your opinion?

[Twodogs]

 

We finally have a team that is winning games and is in first place. Rather than complain we should be happy about it. If the Twins derail there will be plenty of time to complain.

 

You just don't fire the manager of a first place team.

If the Twins lose a game its not a big deal, but when you take a 5 - 3 lead into the 9th the day before and then you take an 8 - 2 lead into the 8th and lose both games, those are bad losses.  every team will lose games this year, but the bad losses hurt a little more and they should have been wins which could make a huge difference at the end of the year.

[Craig Arko]

This whole thread had been gold.

Or at least Iron pyrite.

[DocBauer]

If that is the case... I can see his line of thinking but in my opinion. You need your option B in CF because CF is by far the most important position in the OF and his past actions suggest that he believes that option B is Kepler because that's the guy he puts in there.

 

I'm not worked up over this... Just curious. It bit us because that drop by Rosario was huge but that's baseball. It goes that way sometimes. I still believe Rosario is a nice defensive OF. 

 

Regardless... with Vargas down... Grossman is the primary DH. Rosario in LF, Buxton in CF and Kepler in RF and Adrianaza is the only backup and Molitor isn't comfortable with him out there if his first choice CF backup option remains in RF when Buxton gets hurt. 

 

We may have to drop Adrianaza and pick up an OF he trusts to play all 3 positions immediately.

 

Possibly. But I can't help but wonder I'd the weather and wet grass didn't have some effect as well. No excuses, just wondering.

[Platoon]

Or at least Iron pyrite.

My belief that this team is Iron pyrite is based on things like today. Poor pitching, and questionable managing. There are things to like, the defense is pretty good, and the hitting still has a lot of ceiling left. But the pitching woes will be magnified once they cannot start Santana every third game, and any reliever worth trotting out there will be burnt to a crisp in two weeks. It's not even June and we cannot identify 5 starters.

[DaveW]

I'm not sure why Molly (and co) feel the need to continue to run life long MI out to corner OF once or twice a week. I really don't understand it at all.

If we aren't going to play Buxton everyday, we need a legitimate 4th OF. Running out no hit, no field back up MI guys? That's NOT what winning ball clubs do.

Also, if you are going to send down Vargas for a guy bc your bullpen is depleted, why on earth do you refuse to use said guy in a game when you are UP by six runs? 

I'm not a molitor manager fan at all, but even I am saying you can't fire him at this point (team is in first place) but even if you are a Molly fan, how can you defend the way he has managed this game?

Also: the love affair with bunting HAS to stop. Buxton isn't going to get better when he is asked to bunt every other at bat.

[Riverbrian]

 

Possibly. But I can't help but wonder I'd the weather and wet grass didn't have some effect as well. No excuses, just wondering.

 

I watched the play about 10 times. He came along way to get there. It's possible Kepler doesn't get there... I really don't know. But... I believe that if Rosario keeps running... he catches it clean. He slid on his knees to catch the ball. He doesn't dive forward to gain ground. He slid on his knees upright. I think if he keeps running... he catches it and we got a different ball game. 

 

But again... I'm not upset about Rosario playing center. I'm not mad at Rosario for dropping the ball.

 

I'm just curious about why Rosario when he usually plays Kepler? and it's all tied into the why did we call up two pitchers that Paul wasn't going to throw unless there was a blow out of real large proportions. 1 Guy would have been necessary for that. 

 

I'm not judging Molitor for his decisions... I'm judging him on why is he making these decisions.

 

It seems like he has trust issues with the roster he has been given. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm not sure why Molly (and co) feel the need to continue to run life long MI out to corner OF once or twice a week. I really don't understand it at all.

If we aren't going to play Buxton everyday, we need a legitimate 4th OF. Running out no hit, no field back up MI guys? That's NOT what winning ball clubs do.

Also, if you are going to send down Vargas for a guy bc your bullpen is depleted, why on earth do you refuse to use said guy in a game when you are UP by six runs? 

I'm not a molitor manager fan at all, but even I am saying you can't fire him at this point (team is in first place) but even if you are a Molly fan, how can you defend the way he has managed this game?

Also: the love affair with bunting HAS to stop. Buxton isn't going to get better when he is asked to bunt every other at bat.

 

My defense of Molitor is that these are not his guys. By his actions... these are not his guys. That's all I got right now. 

 

How did the conversation go yesterday?

 

Levine: Paul... How is the bullpen looking for tomorrow and the next few days?

 

Molitor: I don't know Thad... They are burnt right now. I've used them all in the past few games. They are Taxed... no question they are taxed right now. 

 

Levine: Do you need some reinforcements?

 

Molitor: Yes

 

Levine: How Many?

 

Molitor: I could probably use... I don't know... two? 

 

Levine: OK... I'll have a couple guys here by morning (Walks out the door)

 

Molitor: Wait... WHAT TWO GUYS? THAD!!! HEY THAD!!! 

 

 

(After the Game)

 

Levine: I thought you needed two guys.

 

Molitor: I did... but I didn't say I'd use them. 

 

 

 

[rghrbek]

 

And everyone has helped it reach that status.

Then I guess I chime in.  

I am not a Molly fan as a manager.  He continues to baffle.  However, he has (probably been forced) to adjust and he has. ...some.  The team is exceeding expectations so far, so you just can't fire him at this time.

Dick defended Molly's bunting yesterday, in that they only had two sacs all year.  However as usual he does not point out how many failed sac attempts they have had, and also not to mention the constant attempts that literally everyone outside of Sano and Castro has attempted whether for hits or not.

 

The real problem has who they took north, with no apparent plan, if things went south.  Kinztler has been good but clearly lucky.  What has been their plan if he didn't pan out?

 

Todays plan, or play, or who they used just adds a microscope to how poorly this roster was, and continues to be constructed.

 

Two devastating losses that should have been wins.  Can't suffer many more of these without having a trickle down affect.

[yarnivek1972]

Firing a first place manager would be sort of... unprecedented and doubly so when you consider that this team was projected to be amongst the worst in baseball. I don't think Falvey and Levine could explain that firing in job interviews when they are looking for new jobs after being fired from this job.

 

I'm going to simply ask FalVine to get on the same page as the manager. If you are handing guys to Paul that he doesn't trust. What's the point... you might as well just add cardboard cutouts to the 25 man roster because they are just as useful.

 

Paul just told the front office with his actions that I don't trust these guys you just sent me and with a 6 run lead he still didn't trust them.

 

That is a statement that Paul just made by his actions and everyone should be able to hear it loud and clear.

 

I was supportive of Vargas going down yesterday. After today... I am not because he was useful and sent down for someone that was not useful because they were not going to be used unless the team was down by 10 runs.

 

Get on the same page

 

I'm not upset about the loss... I've seen those type of losses before.

 

I'm upset about the absolute pointlessness of the moves made. I lose faith in those in charge when that happens.

And if I'm Falvey, that is reason enough to fire Molitor. That is tantamount to insubordination.

[twinsnorth49]

Would love to know what Mollie's thought process was in considering what he was going to do if Pressly and Breslow failed to hold the lead. So the back up plan was to possibly throw the new guys into a high leverage situation even though he couldn't trust them in a low leverage one?

[Blake]

 

Firing a first place manager would be sort of... unprecedented and doubly so when you consider that this team was projected to be amongst the worst in baseball. I don't think Falvey and Levine could explain that firing in job interviews when they are looking for new jobs after being fired from this job. 

 

I'm going to simply ask FalVine to get on the same page as the manager. If you are handing guys to Paul that he doesn't trust. What's the point... you might as well just add cardboard cutouts to the 25 man roster because they are just as useful. 

 

Paul just told the front office with his actions that I don't trust these guys you just sent me and with a 6 run lead he still didn't trust them. 

 

That is a statement that Paul just made by his actions and everyone should be able to hear it loud and clear. 

 

I was supportive of Vargas going down yesterday. After today... I am not because he was useful and sent down for someone that was not useful because they were not going to be used unless the team was down by 10 runs. 

 

Get on the same page 

 

I'm not upset about the loss... I've seen those type of losses before.

 

 I'm upset about the absolute pointlessness of the moves made. I lose faith in those in charge when that happens. 

Yeah, I get you. Losses happen. But when they are coupled by baffling moves by the manager it raises serious questions.