Molitor

[Blake]

 

His post game comments say it all. Two fresh arms were called up before a series with one of the best offensive teams in the game and a 6 run lead wasn't enough. He certainly wasn't expecting an 8 or 9 run lead.... would that be enough?

 

So that means... Two guys were called up for the sole purpose of being used only if Santana was knocked out early and the team was down big or it's another extra inning game and every other experienced option was used. There is no other scenario that could have possibly happened that Paul would have went with the new guys against a team like the Astros. 

 

"When (you're facing) one of the best offensive teams in the game with a six-run lead, you're going to go with your experience and guys that you feel should get people out."

 

 

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/27334974/v1441948883/houmin-molitor-on-hard-loss-to-astros

 

 

He made excuses for the guys by saying they were taxed by yesterdays game. 

 

 

Nothing was done to untax the taxed bullpen. We got another game tomorrow it seems against the same offense. 

 

Was this Molitor or Levine who insisted on the cardboard cutouts being added to the 25 man roster? 

Do you think there is any chance Molitor was so locked into using the fresh bullpen arms only if Santana had a short start he was unable to think beyond that possibility?

 

As for the line "guys you feel should get guys out" if I'm one of the pitchers just called up, I'm looking for another team ASAP because Molitor just came out and said he doesn't think you can do the job. (Whether or not they can is not the issue. If it were me, that line wouldn't necessarily endear me to the manager)

 

I would imagine the PR people aren't happy right now. You've got a manager that just made some questionable in game decisions and, after a terrible loss, insulted some players. And how is that remark going to play with agents of FA pitching? That is not the sign of a manager who protects his players. 

[howeda7]

 

Agreed, but he is not alone.  Paul Allen's role is when Molitor wants to bring in Pressly, Breslow, and Belisle who are spent, to try to pursuade him to bring in a fresh arm with 6 runs up and 2 innings left.  If Allen cannot do that, he has to go.

He has a hard enough time announcing Vikings games, I really don't want Paul Allen managing our bullpen. 

[howeda7]

 

Question: The Twins were up by six runs left.  2 innings to finish.

 

Do you use:

 

a. the guy you called up today, is a starter, has a fresh arm and was slated to start today for Rochester

b. the guy who pitched 1-1/3 innings the day before, threw 25 pitches and has a 6.11 ERA

He should have used one of the two fresh arms, and if he was going to run Pressly out there, he should have had one of them warming up and had a very quick hook. He obviously had nothing. 

[drjim]

If they can't pitch with a six run lead, then when could they, in your opinion?

In a long situation, if trailing, or if in extra innings.

[drjim]

And if I'm Falvey, that is reason enough to fire Molitor. That is tantamount to insubordination.

No, it's not. Falvey knew who he was sending to Molitor. Falvey thought so highly of them he turned around and sent one out right after the game.

[drjim]

It seems like the thought was no Kintzler, Rogers or Duffey under any circumstances.

 

Pressly, Belisle and Breslow could go up to an inning if needed.

 

Rucinski was there if they were trailing.

 

Wheeler was there for long relief or extras.

 

In this situation, I'd argue he managed the bullpen exactly as he should have.

 

If people want to disagree with that bullpen usage, that's a good argument. But to say he should be fired, insubordination, etc. is hilarious. Gold, even.

[yarnivek1972]

I work in a restaurant. Let's say my manager tells me he has hired two new cooks. They are a little green, he says, but they can help out if it gets busy. It gets moderately busy. Instead of letting them help, I call in a guy who would get OT. The new guys basically stand there and watch. After the rush, I let them sweep and mop the floor.

 

Think my boss will be happy with me?

[DaveW]

I work in a restaurant. Let's say my manager tells me he has hired two new cooks. They are a little green, he says, but they can help out if it gets busy. It gets moderately busy. Instead of letting them help, I call in a guy who would get OT. The new guys basically stand there and watch. After the rush, I let them sweep and mop the floor.

 

Think my boss will be happy with me?

Depends on where the two new guys were called up from? We talking Waffle House? Or AA (Burger king)?

[yarnivek1972]

You're missing the point. My manager said they could help and I didn't let them even try until after the rush was over. So, we paid them to do nothing and had to pay OT to someone else.

[DaveW]

The Twins had to pay OT to one of their players? Did someone hit an innings bonus?

 

I don't get this comparison at all to be honest.

[yarnivek1972]

In the case of the Twins, the "paying OT" refers to the inevitable problems associated with overusing relievers. Like putting them on the DL. Or paying a MLB salary to a guy in AAA.

[Twodogs]

I know that the game is played differently these days, I know no one will ever throw 235 pitches and go 13 innings like Nolan Ryan did in the 70's, I understand that with all of the video and such that often times hitters the 3rd and 4th time through the lineup will hit the starting pitcher more as their secondary pitches don't fool them anymore the 4th Tim through. But this game was a classic game where Santana probably could have come out to pitch the 8th inning. I know he had 114 pitches, but Molly basically had a bullpen he couldn't use either and from what I saw in the 7th is that Santana had the momentum going for him, he had the feel for getting the guys out. I know there isn't an analytical stat that shows feel for the game, but you have to admit Pressly sure as hell didn't have it. Also everyone knew the bullpen was spent. So I just don't understand why you don't send Santana back out there? As soon as he gets in trouble, then bring in someone, I get it, we are all talking in hindsight, and this would be a totally different conversation if there were a few arms in the bullpen that hadnt been burnt up already. I'm sure Santana could have thrown 130 - 135 pitches and still been just as tired the next day? Especially in the situation that they were in at that moment. Again, bringing in a fresh Pressly or Duffy is the right call 90% of the time, but in that situation, I think Santana could have come back out?

[Mike Sixel]

 

I know that the game is played differently these days, I know no one will ever throw 235 pitches and go 13 innings like Nolan Ryan did in the 70's, I understand that with all of the video and such that often times hitters the 3rd and 4th time through the lineup will hit the starting pitcher more as their secondary pitches don't fool them anymore the 4th Tim through. But this game was a classic game where Santana probably could have come out to pitch the 8th inning. I know he had 114 pitches, but Molly basically had a bullpen he couldn't use either and from what I saw in the 7th is that Santana had the momentum going for him, he had the feel for getting the guys out. I know there isn't an analytical stat that shows feel for the game, but you have to admit Pressly sure as hell didn't have it. Also everyone knew the bullpen was spent. So I just don't understand why you don't send Santana back out there? As soon as he gets in trouble, then bring in someone, I get it, we are all talking in hindsight, and this would be a totally different conversation if there were a few arms in the bullpen that hadnt been burnt up already. I'm sure Santana could have thrown 130 - 135 pitches and still been just as tired the next day? Especially in the situation that they were in at that moment. Again, bringing in a fresh Pressly or Duffy is the right call 90% of the time, but in that situation, I think Santana could have come back out?

 

I don't agree. They were up 6 runs. Call on your "worst" bullpen arm to see what he can do. Of course, he didn't do that either.....

[ashbury]

So I just don't understand why you don't send Santana back out there?

A while ago a question was raised as to why Santana is performing better than early in his career. To my eye, it's because his workload was decreased by about 10% a few seasons ago. He's not exactly built like your typical rotation workhorse, after all.

 

Suppose the manager and the pitching coach have located approximately the sweet spot in his usage, over the years. Do you send him out for the 8th inning of an 8-2 game, past 100 pitches, with some unmeasurable risk that you reduce his effectiveness for the next game, or even the next several? I don't know how you quantify this, but the manager has to make an educated guess, and I can't see it as remotely possible to make that choice. You want to win the game, but it's not the 7th game of the World Serious - you do have to think about the upcoming schedule too.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't think you can fault Molitor for not sending Santana back for the 8th on Monday. You have to take a longer term view of the season. You CAN fault Molitor for who he called upon from the bullpen and how he handled the melt down resulting form who he called upon, but not for not using Santana.

 

On a less positive note, the team is now starting to fall apart after Sunday and Monday's debacles. Here's the true test of a manager. The team has had some bad things happen and can spin out of control and with it the season can go south. This is where a manager earns his money by keeping the team loose and performing at its best. There's no shame in losing to the Astros, but being swept at home and showing no pulse or life at all after Monday is pretty damning of the manager and of the players. The upcoming road trip has 4 games against a Mike Trout less Angel squad thate was a mediocre team with him, 3 games against a Mariner team wracked by injuries , and  3 games against the Giants who are 10 games under .500.   A .500 road trip is the lowest acceptable result and the Twins should go 6-4 or 7-3. Any worse and you have to blame the manager, particularly after the way things got out of control last year. 

 

I don't see any evidence they are falling apart. Houston is maybe the best team in the majors....

[70charger]

 

And if I'm Falvey, that is reason enough to fire Molitor. That is tantamount to insubordination.

 

Come on. It's literally the manager's job to decide who plays and when. If you're expecting that the GM will send a player to the 25-man along with instructions on exactly how and when to use him, then why the hell would you even employ a manager in the first place?

 

Disagree all you want with the manager's moves (and it seems we have), but this line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.

[yarnivek1972]

Come on. It's literally the manager's job to decide who plays and when. If you're expecting that the GM will send a player to the 25-man along with instructions on exactly how and when to use him, then why the hell would you even employ a manager in the first place?

 

Disagree all you want with the manager's moves (and it seems we have), but this line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.

Keep in mind that Molitor is not the manager Falvey chose to employ.

[70charger]

Keep in mind that Molitor is not the manager Falvey chose to employ.

So he should look for a specious pretext to fire him? Yeah, that'll go over well. Managers will be lining up to work for the Twins.

[yarnivek1972]

So he should look for a specious pretext to fire him? Yeah, that'll go over well. Managers will be lining up to work for the Twins.

I'd be willing to bet Falvey has a guy or two on his short list and that they probably know who they are.