Berrios Love Thread/Time for the Twins to push their chips in?

[ashbury]

I have to think there's one reliever that can be removed from the 25 to allow for a rotating carousel of prospects out of AAA.  There's plenty of guys who deserve a shot and if they fail you can recycle them for someone else

The 40-man is the gating issue as much as the 25-man for that strategy. A complete rejiggering of the relief portion of the 40-man to accommodate more prospects isn't impossible by any stretch, but is more of a gamble (in terms of the subject of this thread) than at first sight. Acquiring better relievers by trade would be less disruptive, although at greater cost. Tough dilemma, compounded by the uncertainty of whether the window has actually opened yet. I think the trade avenue has to be explored first, and if the cost is too high (which I expect) then start dispensing with the Rucinskis and Bosherses. It's too bad Melotakis is on a bad 3-game stretch, because he's on the 40-man already and would be the obvious first guy on the carousel. The risk comes, if the team is otherwise contending, when the carousel guys all have results like Chargois last year and you wish you had Boshers back for mediocre competence.

[Willihammer]

I'm half expecting that curveball to Arenado in the 4th show up on the "best pitching gifs of the week" site. Sick!

[drjim]

Agree on the bullpen but we need a DH. Vargas isn't the guy. Anyone know if Justin Mrneau is still available? I say that in jest but it would be fun.

They should have tried harder to sign someone like Napoli in the offseason.

[Halsey Hall]

I noticed the difference in balls several years ago and pointed it out to some friends. Then I mentioned it to Rick Anderson and asked why. He had no idea they were different and wondered why to. Later I found out it was cost, and told him. Seems strange some pitcher along the line wouldn't have mentioned it.

[drew_7726]

Twins should trade Stewart, Santiago, and Grossman to the Rangers for Darvish

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The 40-man is the gating issue as much as the 25-man for that strategy. A complete rejiggering of the relief portion of the 40-man to accommodate more prospects isn't impossible by any stretch, but is more of a gamble (in terms of the subject of this thread) than at first sight. Acquiring better relievers by trade would be less disruptive, although at greater cost. Tough dilemma, compounded by the uncertainty of whether the window has actually opened yet. I think the trade avenue has to be explored first, and if the cost is too high (which I expect) then start dispensing with the Rucinskis and Bosherses. It's too bad Melotakis is on a bad 3-game stretch, because he's on the 40-man already and would be the obvious first guy on the carousel. The risk comes, if the team is otherwise contending, when the carousel guys all have results like Chargois last year and you wish you had Boshers back for mediocre competence.

The 40-man shouldn't be a limiting factor.  In the last month, we've added Tepesch, Rucinski, and Wilk.  Plus Boshers has been passed over for all of those guys.  And if you're promoting guys from AA too, there will be plenty of options to take their places at AAA if they are claimed.  (Turley and Wimmers both got bumped to AA right now because there are too many pitchers in Rochester!)

 

And if things go bad and you need mediocre competence, we've got Tonkin and Chapman parked at AAA, a RHP and a LHP both with fairly extensive MLB experience.

 

I think you could safely drop Wilk right now and start the carousel with Hildenberger or Burdi -- those guys are on track to need 40-man spots this winter anyway.  Move some guys up to AAA (from among Turley, Bard, Curtiss, Van Steensel) and down to AA (Wheeler, Boshers) too, so you get a little more data about who could be next in line, when you are ready to cut Tepesch, Rucinski, or Boshers.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Also very convenient for people who want to complain is the fact that in this day and age every move can instantly be scrutinized in a vacuum and torn to shreds. It's a good time to be a hater/malcontent/grouch!

What part of the criticism is in a vacuum? They offered up a lame excuse to ensure he started the year in AAA, they went with a 4 man rotation after Mejia went down, and they added Tepescch to the 40 man and passed Berrios up after Gibson was mercifully demoted. Berrios is a better option than everybody (Mejia included) that started games in that 5 spot and the Twins seemingly were doing everything they could to avoid bringing him back up. I'm glad their hand was finally forced.... 

 

If the fact that I don't default to the "In Falvey we trust," mantra every time a decision is made makes me a hater/malcontent then I'm happy to wear the label.....

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

The 40-man is the gating issue as much as the 25-man for that strategy. A complete rejiggering of the relief portion of the 40-man to accommodate more prospects isn't impossible by any stretch, but is more of a gamble (in terms of the subject of this thread) than at first sight. Acquiring better relievers by trade would be less disruptive, although at greater cost. Tough dilemma, compounded by the uncertainty of whether the window has actually opened yet. I think the trade avenue has to be explored first, and if the cost is too high (which I expect) then start dispensing with the Rucinskis and Bosherses. It's too bad Melotakis is on a bad 3-game stretch, because he's on the 40-man already and would be the obvious first guy on the carousel. The risk comes, if the team is otherwise contending, when the carousel guys all have results like Chargois last year and you wish you had Boshers back for mediocre competence.

 

I won't argue this, but at some point the upside of guys who are pretty much ready now (Bard, Hildenberger, Burdi, etc.)  should be better than guys like Rucinski, Wilk, etc.  I'd probably start with Melotakis or bring in Chargois once he's back, and I certainly wouldn't jettison the entire pen right now, but I think you need to do something other than waiting till 2018 to add some of these guys to the 40 man.

If they bring in Hildenberger and he's lights out, then you can consider another spot, but if he's not, burn the option. He's in AAA now and doing well, if they need all 3 options for a guy like that, then he's probably not going to be a major leaguer.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

MODERATOR NOTE:

 

I'm going to step in  and kindly ask that we end the tangent of too soon/too late right now.  We are arguing about slightly more than one month of minor league time in regards to a player that clearly wasn't ready last year and spent less with coaches this spring due to the WBC.  There is absolutely nothing good to be gained from this, and no one can say with any certainty if Berrios would be doing what he did the last two starts had come up earlier.  It will invite nothing but bickering.

 

Let's just enjoy the fact that our prized prospect is actually looking like a prized prospect who could potentially be filling a big hole in the rotation.

[Otto von Ballpark]

No need to start with Melo just because he's on the 40-man.  Wilk likely has to go anyway to make room on the 25-man, which also clears an easy 40-man spot.

 

And please let's not wait for Chargois!  He's not even back to pitching in game action yet, and will need some time to get straightened out (or even just stretched out after a couple months of inactivity).

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

No need to start with Melo just because he's on the 40-man.  Wilk likely has to go anyway to make room on the 25-man, which also clears an easy 40-man spot.

 

And please let's not wait for Chargois!  He's not even back to pitching in game action yet, and will need some time to get straightened out (or even just stretched out after a couple months of inactivity).

 

Definitely a good point.  The problem with the non-40 man guys is more options management and the need to DFA someone to bring them on.  It makes sense to start with 40 man guys to minimize risk in that area, but yes, I agree that if a guy like Bard or Hildenberger is the most ready and will be added this winter, then dumping a guy like Wilk to make room for them should be done.

[drjim]

Other than Burdi and Chargois, these options are just re-arranging chairs.

 

I'm not opposed to giving a guy a look, but I'd probably just keep the 40 man inventory other than adding Burdi (hopefully sooner rather than later).

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I'd like to see Burdi moved to AAA.  He hasn't been good in AA up until this year (though injury played a part there)... he's a good candidate to toss out at a higher level and see if he continues to dominate.

[drjim]

Personally, I'd like to see Burdi moved to AAA. He hasn't been good in AA up until this year (though injury played a part there)... he's a good candidate to toss out at a higher level and see if he continues to dominate.

I would skip AAA, bring him right up.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would skip AAA, bring him right up.

 

this, and now.

[laloesch]

 

Let's get Mejia up and pitching well as the 5th starter If he pitches well, then maybe Hughes is the 5th starter.
Berrios is awesome!

 

Meija would be a great addition as a lefty. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I wonder who it was in the organization who thought Berrios should still be in the minors for a while. Glad Berrios is finally here. All in!

[spanman2]

 

Just think how much better he would be if he spent a few more weeks in AAA....

IALTO

[Mike Sixel]

BTW, super excited that Berrios is pitching like (well, much better) than many of us felt he would last year, let alone this year.

[nokomismod]

 

Can't seem to edit my post. Berrios started using a MLB ball in Rochester that he has indicated has helped.

Life is great because I learn interesting new things everyday. So the MLB baseball is different than the AAA baseball?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Life is great because I learn interesting new things everyday. So the MLB baseball is different than the AAA baseball?

 

There was another thread on that somewhere, but yes.  They outsource minor league baseballs to lower cost overseas factories if I remember right.

[John Kelsey]

He reminds me more of Pedro Martinez from a stature/stuff standpoint than Jose Fernandez. 

I suppose I'd take either one though. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Can't seem to edit my post. Berrios started using a MLB ball in Rochester that he has indicated has helped.

 

It amazes me to no end that this is even the case.  Why the hell are we using different balls?  I'm genuinely curious - what possible good comes of that?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It amazes me to no end that this is even the case.  Why the hell are we using different balls?  I'm genuinely curious - what possible good comes of that?

 

Apparently, it saves MLB some money.  I'd love to know how much, because that really strikes me as something that would not be worth it. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Apparently, it saves MLB some money.  I'd love to know how much, because that really strikes me as something that would not be worth it. 

 

That is insultingly absurd if true.

[gheggs42]

Question: is xFIP a good stat to use for a pitcher? Not very familiar with it but I noticed Berrios has an xFIP of 4.16 while an ERA of 0.59 and only 4 hits allowed. Does it have to do with the amount of fly balls he's allowed? 

[drjim]

Question: is xFIP a good stat to use for a pitcher? Not very familiar with it but I noticed Berrios has an xFIP of 4.16 while an ERA of 0.59 and only 4 hits allowed. Does it have to do with the amount of fly balls he's allowed?

I personally think very little of xfip and what I've read is that it is losing favor overall.

 

The "x" in xfip is not as meaningful as originally promised.

 

But yes, Berrios has a high xfip because of fly balls.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That is insultingly absurd if true.

I don't think it's an MLB thing, I think it's a MiLB thing. The teams probably pay for their own balls.

 

It doesn't make it less stupid, only more acceptably stupid. MLB should pay for MiLB balls because it's in their interest to do so.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Apparently, it saves MLB some money.  I'd love to know how much, because that really strikes me as something that would not be worth it. 

 

It's supposedly about a 40% higher cost for the MLB balls. Something like $180 for a box of balls as opposed to $120, or thereabouts. MLB seams are tighter and lower, so the ball is slicker and spins faster.

 

But yeah, that's just penny-wise pound-foolish behavior. Especially at the top levels. You'd think AAA and even AA would use the same ball.

[Otto von Ballpark]

We could be over-rating the difference between the MLB and MiLB balls too. Just because some players think they are meaningfully different doesn't mean it's actually true.  A lot of recent MLB players were wearing necklaces that they believed impacted their performance too...