Twins option Mejia to AAA, put Haley on DL

[Otto von Ballpark]

Nobody else can sign Santiago away from our rotation until November, so there is plenty of time to plan without immediately signing him to an extension.

 

If Santiago winds up duplicating last year's 94 ERA+ in 2017, does having him under contract beyond this season really stabilize the rotation that much anyway? It seems like a lot of our rotation trouble has stemmed from locking up pitchers in that range of effectiveness.

[KirbyDome89]

 

If they're in contention, keeping Santiago for 2017 does nothing to prevent them from signing two FAs next winter. And in that scenario Santiago is likely worth more to them for the second half of this year than whatever they might get in the future from the return.

If they're out of it, fine, trade him.

It doesn't prevent them from signing any FAs, and if they can't get anything meaningful for him at the deadline then I'm fine with that route. Meh, if he has a good first half they might be able to pry a decent pitching prospect away from some team. If there is one thing contending teams will overpay for it's pitching. Obviously he won't bring back any sort of top talent, but I would  be fine with the Twins taking a gamble on a prospect in return for Santiago. I would hold off on an extension for sure as well. 

 

I wish I could say my feelings regarding deadline deals were more mixed if the team is around .500 but if they have an opportunity to move guys and bring in legitimate help for 18' and beyond then I'm likely to favor that. 

 

Also for the record I have zero faith in this teaming signing 2 significant FA pitchers this offseason. Even hoping for one might be a pipe dream...

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am not terribly excited about locking him into an extension (2/20ish) right now so that furthers my point.

 

But I will give you some reasons why he is valuable enough to lock into a contract right now though

 

THE TWINS ROTATION AND PROSPECTS ARE TERRIBLE (Some prospects are decent but far from certain)

 

Without Santiago

A - #3 starter Phil Hughes

B - #4 starter Aderlin Mejia

C - #5 starter Kyle Gibson

 

I have reserved the top 2 spots for Ervin and Berrios but even that is not a slam dunk since Ervin is 34 and Berrios hasn't figured out anything yet. Maybe the price tag doesn't increase much but he is locked in and the Twins can make a plan going forward. Instead of HOLY @#$%#$^#$ we need an entire rotation!

If that is really the concern, a far better way to address it now would be to give Duffey another chance at starting. Unlike signing Santiago or a similar free agent, figuring out Duffy is something that can't be accomplished later.

[kab21]

 

If that is really the concern, a far better way to address it now would be to give Duffey another chance at starting. Unlike signing Santiago or a similar free agent, figuring out Duffy is something that can't be accomplished later.

Santiago vs Duffey don't concern each other. Both can happen or neither.

 

Duffey is old enough that the Twins need to make a decision that ensures they get something out of him. Yo-yoing him back and forth doesn't allow that and if he doesn't have the pitches to be a starter then make sure that he becomes a good RP'er.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Santiago vs Duffey don't concern each other. Both can happen or neither.

 

Duffey is old enough that the Twins need to make a decision that ensures they get something out of him. Yo-yoing him back and forth doesn't allow that and if he doesn't have the pitches to be a starter then make sure that he becomes a good RP'er.

Point is, you were justifying a Santiago extension as something we could do about our terrible rotation depth NOW. But, it doesn't actually do anything to improve the rotation now (Santiago is already in our rotation), and the 2018+ commitment is something you can arrange later if you are willing to dedicate some modest resources.

 

Starting Duffey was just an example of something you could actually do now to potentially improve your rotation depth immediately, and it is an example of something that would be extremely difficult to accomplish later. I will leave the actual debate about Duffey to another thread.

 

In any case, I don't see a compelling reason to extend Santiago at this moment. If I was ownership, I would be thoroughly unimpressed with a front office that tried to get me to sign off on a Santiago extension to help our future rotation health while at the same time limiting Duffey to 2-3 innings a week.

[Otto von Ballpark]

By the way, Duffey is only 26, won't even be arbitration eligible until after the 2018 season, and he still has 2 option years left. There should be no great urgency to commit him full-time to the bullpen today. (Sorry, I promised to leave the Duffey debate for another thread )

[kab21]

I wasn't talking about now. I was talking about 2018.

What you do with Duffey doesn't matter in that equation. I still am not going to feel excited about the rotation if Duffey moves to the rotation and does alright in 15 GS.

 

You keep saying that the Twins can add a decent starter at a later time like it is a trivial item. If it were easy then the Twins wouldn't be in this situation. I am not sure where you think I am saying that Santiago is the answer to our problems and I am okay with waiting or not extending him but I can certainly see a reason that an extension (on July 1st) would be a good move.

 

Even if the absolute best circumstances happened there isn't a scenario where the Twins have TOO MUCH good pitching next year.

#1 Cueto or big FA - this is the best possible path (not the likely)

#2 Ervin

#3 Berrios looks awesome this year

#4 Santiago

#5 Hughes - somehow survives and is decent

 

Even in this scenario you still only have Mejia and Duffey (if you move him) and possibly some current A+/AA pitchers coming up.

And I think just about everyone doesn't think everything is going to break the Twins way like the example above shows.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Santiago can quite easily be signed after July 1st. I really do not understand the concern that if we don't act fast, we will lose him. He is not a free agent until November, and even then, he will not be in a price range unaffordable to the Twins, nor will there be a lack of alternatives available on the market. The Twins have signed multiple Santiago-esque veteran starters in recent offseasons. I say, let it play out -- there might be a different starter or combination of starters you prefer in that class by November.

 

And Duffey contributing 15 "alright" starts in 2017 would have far more bearing on our 2018 rotation depth than signing Santiago's 2018 contract a few months early.

[Rosterman]

Did Tepesch miss his plane or something? Is he available to pitch?

[mlhouse]

We have a 26 year old catching prospect with a .935 OPS in AAA, and the Twins keep a 34 year old career backup backup on the roster to hit .167.  

[amjgt]

I am not terribly excited about locking him into an extension (2/20ish) right now so that furthers my point.

 

But I will give you some reasons why he is valuable enough to lock into a contract right now though

 

THE TWINS ROTATION AND PROSPECTS ARE TERRIBLE (Some prospects are decent but far from certain)

 

Without Santiago

A - #3 starter Phil Hughes

B - #4 starter Aderlin Mejia

C - #5 starter Kyle Gibson

 

I have reserved the top 2 spots for Ervin and Berrios but even that is not a slam dunk since Ervin is 34 and Berrios hasn't figured out anything yet. Maybe the price tag doesn't increase much but he is locked in and the Twins can make a plan going forward. Instead of HOLY @#$%#$^#$ we need an entire rotation!

That Trevor May guy was pretty good

[DocBauer]

We have a 26 year old catching prospect with a .935 OPS in AAA, and the Twins keep a 34 year old career backup backup on the roster to hit .167.

 

Because, right now, we are talking about a backup catcher. A veteran who is solid behind the plate, and who has been at least decent against LHSP, whom the FO is familiar with, who is a quality clubhouse guy, and a guy who is probably only a place-setter until Garver is brought up. I'm a huge believer in Garver, and have been for a while. But his AAA is very limited, and I think Giminez's time remains limited. In fact, wouldn't surprise me if he is flipped for an A prospect as soon as someone has an injury at the catcher spot.

[DocBauer]

Personally, I absolutely love the Twins handling of Santana right now. They have a chance, even if the season is early, to say "We can give you a day of extra rest to make sure you are full bore and ready to be our guy the rest of the season". He's been good to borderline excellent since the Twins signed him. Why mess with a good thing?

 

Santiago. I just don't know for sure. But the guy has been to an all star game. When the Twins acquired him, he was pitching lights out. He stunk after he came to us. For whatever reason(s) he pitched very well his last 5 or so starts last season. He looked good in ST. He's been solid to very good in April. Where would we be without him? Extend him? Not now...not yet. But if he keeps it up, I could see it. He won't break the bank, and the market for SP has gotten downright crazy.

 

Hughes. I honestly thought he'd be in EST to begin the season, then rehab before hopefully joining the rotation. He's been way short of great. But he has surprised the he'll out of me at this point as he is re-inventing himself. He may stink as he sees teams the second time around, or, he may continue to develop himself as a pitcher and remain solid, if not better. Wild card.

 

There is absolutely room here for Berrios and Mejia to make their mark this season. And I hope they do. We are ONE MONTH in!

 

Expiring contracts, potential contracts traded or not retained, under last season's payroll, and below the MLB average payroll, this team ABSOLUTELY has the room for one major, quality FA SP addition next season. Forgetting May, Gonsalves, Jorge and others, we could be looking at FA, Santana, Hughes, Berrios and Mejia if things play out right. Santiago? I am not saying no. Depth is great and something we haven't had or enjoyed much lately.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Meaningless. He is still awful.

agree he pitched poorly for the Twins, but value is relative. The opening day starter does indicate some level of value to the Angels.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Did Tepesch miss his plane or something? Is he available to pitch?

He keeps volunteering to get bumped from his flights, in exchange for airline vouchers.

[drjim]

Sonewhat related to the Tepesch question, I'm still amazed Molitor let Hughes start the 6th on Sunday. A fully rested 8 man pen with a day off the next day and a tenuous starter. 5 and fly. Could have easily cost the game.

[USAFChief]

 

Sonewhat related to the Tepesch question, I'm still amazed Molitor let Hughes start the 6th on Sunday. A fully rested 8 man pen with a day off the next day and a tenuous starter. 5 and fly. Could have easily cost the game.

At the very least, letting Hughes stay in to face Moss (and then Escobar, too) was managerial malpractice.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He keeps volunteering to get bumped from his flights, in exchange for airline vouchers.

 

Too bad, like my company, the TWins keep the vouchers. If only he knew....

[Otto von Ballpark]

Since this seems like the rotation / roster move thread at the moment, this next roster move should be coming up soon.

 

Tepesch is out of options, and I'm guessing they didn't add him last week just to DFA him this week, so it seems like he will stick around.  The path of least resistance would be to start Tepesch on Saturday (I hope they don't do that!) and leave everything else the same. If they want to add Berrios, seem like they would have to DFA Tonkin.

 

They won't be forced to make a roster move until May 11th, when Adrianza will have hit the max 20 day rehab assignment.  Of course, he's been playing every day at AAA for a week already, so perhaps they won't use the max 20 days. Seems likely they would DFA Danny Santana for Adrianza soon, although never underestimate the staying power of DanSan!

 

Obviously someone could go on the DL in the meantime too, which could enable roster additions without DFAs.

[gheggs42]

 

I wasn't talking about now. I was talking about 2018.

What you do with Duffey doesn't matter in that equation. I still am not going to feel excited about the rotation if Duffey moves to the rotation and does alright in 15 GS.

 

You keep saying that the Twins can add a decent starter at a later time like it is a trivial item. If it were easy then the Twins wouldn't be in this situation. I am not sure where you think I am saying that Santiago is the answer to our problems and I am okay with waiting or not extending him but I can certainly see a reason that an extension (on July 1st) would be a good move.

 

Even if the absolute best circumstances happened there isn't a scenario where the Twins have TOO MUCH good pitching next year.

#1 Cueto or big FA - this is the best possible path (not the likely)

#2 Ervin

#3 Berrios looks awesome this year

#4 Santiago

#5 Hughes - somehow survives and is decent

 

Even in this scenario you still only have Mejia and Duffey (if you move him) and possibly some current A+/AA pitchers coming up.

And I think just about everyone doesn't think everything is going to break the Twins way like the example above shows.

I think our 1/1 draft pick this year will be in the mix late next season. I'm thinking McKay 

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

I think our 1/1 draft pick this year will be in the mix late next season. I'm thinking McKay 

That would be pretty fast, but maybe...

[Mike Sixel]

 

That would be pretty fast, but maybe...

 

I've read several say that McKay is ready to pitch in the majors right now.....so, next year would be great, and potentially not unrealistic.

[USAFChief]

 

I think our 1/1 draft pick this year will be in the mix late next season. I'm thinking McKay 

You spelled Greene wrong.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

That would be pretty fast, but maybe...

 

McKay has been mentioned as a guy who is very close to ready now... both with the bat and on the mound.  Now if they draft Greene, you're going to be waiting a few years.  McKay, baring injury, could possibly be fighting for a spot out of spring training.

[FlauerPauer]

 

That would be pretty fast, but maybe...

 

I mean other teams do it...  God forbid the Twins do something unconventional.

[mlhouse]

 

Because, right now, we are talking about a backup catcher. A veteran who is solid behind the plate, and who has been at least decent against LHSP, whom the FO is familiar with, who is a quality clubhouse guy, and a guy who is probably only a place-setter until Garver is brought up. I'm a huge believer in Garver, and have been for a while. But his AAA is very limited, and I think Giminez's time remains limited. In fact, wouldn't surprise me if he is flipped for an A prospect as soon as someone has an injury at the catcher spot.

 

 

But Garver can get ABs in a lot of different scenarios and in a rebuilding franchise he needs to be just given more PAs than what perhaps he has "earned".  It would be different if I was arguing about bringing up a 23 year old from AA like the Twins did with Laudner (albeit Launder has 42 HRs that season) instead of a guy who is already 26 years old.  When, if ever are they going to give the guy a chance to sink or swim?  

 

I get that this team is going to prefer retreads liek Nick Tepesch and Giminiz to giving their prospects a chance.  But, then, that is why this team really sucks and have been over an extended period.  

 

I get everyone is excited with a 12-11 start and there was the fluke 500 season in 2015, but this team has lost 99, 96, 96, 92, and 103 games in 5/7 seasons and pretending we are contenders versus getting our prospects MLB development is idiotic.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But Garver can get ABs in a lot of different scenarios and in a rebuilding franchise he needs to be just given more PAs than what perhaps he has "earned".  It would be different if I was arguing about bringing up a 23 year old from AA like the Twins did with Laudner (albeit Launder has 42 HRs that season) instead of a guy who is already 26 years old.  When, if ever are they going to give the guy a chance to sink or swim?  

 

I get that this team is going to prefer retreads liek Nick Tepesch and Giminiz to giving their prospects a chance.  But, then, that is why this team really sucks and have been over an extended period.  

 

I get everyone is excited with a 12-11 start and there was the fluke 500 season in 2015, but this team has lost 99, 96, 96, 92, and 103 games in 5/7 seasons and pretending we are contenders versus getting our prospects MLB development is idiotic.  

Except catchers, unlike position players, don't play in isolation. Can we really complain about the backstop corps considering how much this pitching staff has overperformed?

 

There's something this front office likes about Gimenez and thus far, it appears to have worked in some capacity. Given the lack of information I have on what Gimenez does and what Garver does/doesn't do, I'm not going to make claims about who should be catching every third or fourth game.

 

I want to see Garver join the team at some point but if the front office doesn't feel he's ready, then I can't really disagree because I simply don't know anything beyond a stat line.

 

And a stat line does not a catcher make.

 

Nothing about this situation is "idiotic" unless you're comfortable sitting at the far left edge of the Dunning-Kruger scale and making grandiose claims.

[SweetOne69]

LEN3 intimates that Tepesch is starting on Saturday.

[Mike Sixel]

 

LEN3 intimates that Tepesch is starting on Saturday.

 

That would be disappointing to me. 

[drjim]

LEN3 intimates that Tepesch is starting on Saturday.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH