Twins looking to add Veterans to Bullpen

[Blake]

I thought the idea behind signing LaTroy Hawkins was to get a veteran presence so the Twins wouldn't need to use up valuable roster spots for aging veterans. 

 

Or am I comparing apples to rutabagas?

[Brandon Warne]

Relievers I think they should be interested in:

 

Aaron Barrett

Joba Chamberlain

Santiago Casilla

Louis Coleman

Neftali Feliz

Jim Henderson

Luke Hochevar

Sergio Romo

Shawn Tolleson

Fernando Salas

Drew Storen

Junichi Tazawa 

Travis Wood

 

 

[Brandon Warne]

 

So this comes back to thinking Hunter's presence was worth like 10-15 wins?

 

No. I just don't think it's as cut and dry and WAR makes it seem. As in, obviously no player is worth 10-15 wins -- other than Mike Trout -- but I think having vets can keep things from snowballing. 

[Thrylos]

They just signed Drew Rucinski and invited him to ST, for his veteran presence

[Mr. Brooks]

Look at how this past year's team played. Basically the same roster from 2015. I think there's some truth to having veterans who can stop things from snowballing.

There were no veterans on the 2016 team?

[Mr. Brooks]

Or invest the money more productively.

Sure, but that isn't what I responded to. I responded to the thought that overpaying in salary would bring back a lesser return in a trade.

[DocBauer]

Why bother.  This is not to build for 2017.  Even in our most optimistic winter forgetfulness we know that the Twins are not going to win next season.  Use the young arms and let them become veterans.  Somehow I cannot see a veteran arm in the bullpen giving us 20 more wins.

No closer would give us that many wins, obviously. But there is such a thing as learning to win, IMO. And a stronger bullpen can help out a poor to mediocre rotation, just as a poor pen can lose games and overshadow a quality rotation.

 

I'm not saying don't pitch the prospects, I'm saying hold on to leads and potential wins for this young team that is rebuilding. Let guys like Chargois and Pressly set up and slide in to the role. Make the bullpen as strong as you can, maybe flip said closer. If it's someone still relatively young ands Neftali is, perhaps you even consider re-signing him. 20 wins won't happen by a veteran, quality closer, but it's a cumulative affect that can lead to more wins.

[PseudoSABR]

Veteran is a 'euphemism' for known-quantity, or at least better known.  I think they just want to eliminate positions of need as they go into the season, to give them less worry about, god knows.

[mikelink45]

 

No closer would give us that many wins, obviously. But there is such a thing as learning to win, IMO. And a stronger bullpen can help out a poor to mediocre rotation, just as a poor pen can lose games and overshadow a quality rotation.

I'm not saying don't pitch the prospects, I'm saying hold on to leads and potential wins for this young team that is rebuilding. Let guys like Chargois and Pressly set up and slide in to the role. Make the bullpen as strong as you can, maybe flip said closer. If it's someone still relatively young ands Neftali is, perhaps you even consider re-signing him. 20 wins won't happen by a veteran, quality closer, but it's a cumulative affect that can lead to more wins.

I understand what you and Vanimal are saying and there is logic, but I just can't see what is left on the market that will make the difference.  We should have vets in Perkins and Hughes - at this point Gibson should be a vet.  The average relief pitcher is too up and down with their successful years to invest in them. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

There were no veterans on the 2016 team?

 

I'm not sure why the contrary to what I said would be "no veterans" but I'll indulge you anyway.

 

I think having more veterans would help. I think Torii's role on the 2015 team was keeping certain guys in line. That's something I think a Mike Napoli could help out with. 

 

To me, the identity of the 2016 team was that when things went bad, they snowballed -- and quickly. That's a hallmark of having young players in prominent roles all together. 

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not sure why the contrary to what I said would be "no veterans" but I'll indulge you anyway.

 

I think having more veterans would help. I think Torii's role on the 2015 team was keeping certain guys in line. That's something I think a Mike Napoli could help out with.

 

To me, the identity of the 2016 team was that when things went bad, they snowballed -- and quickly. That's a hallmark of having young players in prominent roles all together.

If the veterans we have now are not enough to keep things from snowballing, are we sure adding one more will?

And, if the veterans we already have aren't equipped to be that guy, do we know for sure that Napoli is the guy who is?

 

I don't disagree that leadership is important, but I'm not buying that losing one veteran had anything to do with the difference between '15 and '16.

[nicksaviking]

MLBTR's Charlie Wilmoth has a write up on Neftali Feliz, perhaps the next best available relief pitcher on the market.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/free-agent-profile-neftali-feliz.html

 

The last line of the write up is:

 

"MLBTR predicts Feliz’s status as one of the better setup men available this winter will help the BTI Sports client land a three-year, $18MM deal."

 

I'm interested in Feliz, most of us probably are. I'm having a hard time deciding though if his last line makes me skeptical of the writer's analysi or if I should be more interested in Feliz than I am. Sure many teams would look at Feliz as one of the better setup men, but plenty have to see Feliz as a suitable choice for closer don't they? I mean hands down he'd be the Twins closer. I'd have to think if he and his agent see him as a closer, not a setup man, three years at $18M is light considering what the top tier guys went for. Perhaps not though; maybe he needs another year similar to last year for teams to trust him again? Anyway I'd take him at that price.

[drjim]

MLBTR's Charlie Wilmoth has a write up on Neftali Feliz, perhaps the next best available relief pitcher on the market.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/free-agent-profile-neftali-feliz.html

 

The last line of the write up is:

 

"MLBTR predicts Feliz’s status as one of the better setup men available this winter will help the BTI Sports client land a three-year, $18MM deal."

 

I'm interested in Feliz, most of us probably are. I'm having a hard time deciding though if his last line makes me skeptical of the writer's analysi or if I should be more interested in Feliz than I am. Sure many teams would look at Feliz as one of the better setup men, but plenty have to see Feliz as a suitable choice for closer don't they? I mean hands down he'd be the Twins closer. I'd have to think if he and his agent see him as a closer, not a setup man, three years at $18M is light considering what the top tier guys went for. Perhaps not though; maybe he needs another year similar to last year for teams to trust him again? Anyway I'd take him at that price.

I wouldn't go 3 years on a reliever at this point. They can be patient and get a representative guy for 1-2 years, maybe even Feliz if they promise the closer job.

[Linus]

Adding veterans to the bullpen seems like a Terry Ryan move.

[nicksaviking]

I'm in the camp of giving the kids the jobs, but if that isn't how this is going to work, I guess my second choice is to get some guys who might hit it big and you could flip. Obviously Holland has the upside to fetch a nice return if everything plays out right, I'd think Feliz could also be very attractive if he repeats last year and is only earning $6M/year.

 

Ryan did well with his low-budget and minor-league deal bullpen guys, but they all had such low, low ceilings. Is Brandon Kintzler at his peak value even tradable?

[bird]

It's not about adding veterans. Veterans can be crappy leaders and younger players can step into the breach and provide leadership. Your chances of being a useful role model improve rather dramatically when you can supplement your natural leadership instincts with a credible record of achievement. I would guess that if Chargois or someone had stepped into the high-stress role with consistent success they wouldn't be trying to fill a leadership void so urgently.

[old nurse]

 

There were no veterans on the 2016 team?

Dozier, Mauer, Escobar, Nunez was traded, Plouffe was hurt as much as healthy. Perhaps not much for veterans would have been more accurate. Vetran starters who have it figured out would be Sanatana. There really wasn't an established reliever healthy and performing. Through the season I guess you could say Kinzler figured it out.

 

[jorgenswest]

On Feliz...

 

He is projected for a 3 year deal at 6 million per year. It is hard to imagine his age 29-31 seasons will be better than his age 26-28 seasons. As a whole the last three years were mediocre for a late inning reliever. They varied geatly individually as often happens in the always small seasonal sample of a relief pitcher. I would be very hesitant to give him a three year deal. A one year deal at 8 million would be preferable to 3/18. With the appearance of a good half season, they can trade him at the deadline and replace him with a similar guy next winter. If Feliz declines or is injured again, they only are committed for a year.

[nicksaviking]

I guess in terms of Feliz, I'd be interested in a multi year deal if the team was reasonably confident in the return of his velocity. It jumped back to what it was when he was looking like a stud for the Rangers.

[USAFChief]

Feliz was pretty good last year. Seems like a reasonable FA target to me.

[David HK]

If they've gotta go with vets, I want some that are mean and nasty, and not shy about dusting off opposing batters once in a while.  Let's see...  what are Goose Gossage or Al Hrabosky doing these days?

[DocBauer]

I've been an advocate for Feliz for some time now, especially with Levine familiar with him. I think he could step in as the closer and allow Chargois and others to define themselves initially without having to step in as "the guy" in the 9th right away. Further, a strong bullpen helps mitigate a questionable rotation somewhat, and allows the rebuilding Twins to actually win a few games they might otherwise lose. Winnjng is still the name of the game, and learning to win, IMO, is a real thing.

 

Feliz could be an excellent flip candidate, but is also young enough to re-sign and keep. But I'm not sure I'd be in on him for 3 years at this point. I was thinking more about a year deal with a chance to close as more of a bounce back candidate. I might even consider a 2 year deal. Just not as excited about 3 years when I think there are enough questions about him being what he was previously at this point.

[beckmt]

Would rather have Greg Holland on a 2 year deal, but Feliz would be a second option.  Twins need some veterans in the bullpen who can hold leads and close games.  As stated above, It is probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 wins just to close games we were leading into the 7th inning last year.

 

[darin617]

 

Feliz was pretty good last year. Seems like a reasonable FA target to me.

 

I see many other contending teams that he would sign for before settling on Minnesota. Most likely the only reason why he is not signed is that his agent trying to get 3 year deal.

[darin617]

Twins should go bottom fishing for someone like Sergio Romo. He could be had on the cheap to close and could try to flip him for a prospect as well at deadline.