Pie In The Sky Trade Idea

[BK432]

It's an interesting idea. Not to over-WAR the topic, but Urias actually had a higher fWAR and bWAR than Sano in 2016 in just 77 IP. Barring injury, he's going to be awesome.

 

But that's the tricky part, and Sixel is right....the Twins would be very reluctant to do that trade without getting a bit more due to the risk they're buying. The Dodgers, as Jimmer said, would probably be reluctant too as he hasn't shown he can be anything other than a DH at the MLB level.

 

I don't think the value is far off on either side, but at the end of the day, this just probably isn't a fit.

[Winston Smith]

Dozier, E Santana and Rosario for Urias, DeLeon and Puig.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Dozier, E Santana and Rosario for Urias, DeLeon and Puig.

 

i would do that so fast it must not be fair.

[Shane Wahl]

I wouldn't make any trades like this at all. I am not even in favor of trading Dozier for pitching. SIGN one top notch FA pitcher, hit the international market, and draft better.

[Vanimal46]

I wouldn't make any trades like this at all. I am not even in favor of trading Dozier for pitching. SIGN one top notch FA pitcher, hit the international market, and draft better.

In theory I agree. Problem is there is no top notch FA pitcher to sign. The Twins can't afford to stand pat with their current staff, so trades are the only alternative left.

[Thrylos]

If the Dodgers came asking for Sano, I'd ask for Urias, Seger, Edwin Rios, and another prospect...

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

Dozier, E Santana and Rosario for Urias, DeLeon and Puig.

Why exactly would the Twins need Puig?

 

[biggentleben]

 

They've got a ton of young pitching... Urias, De Leon, Alvarez, Buehler, Sheffield...

 

The Twins would love to have their depth of top-of-the-line-potential in their system.

 

Nevermind the hitting they have in the system as well. How one doesn't see prospects of desire in that system is beyond me.

[Rosterman]

at this point, no team would be looking at Sano as longterm at third. The Twins will give Sano two more seasons and then have to deal with signing him longterm or hoping he is a true trade chip, depending on is position.

 

Pitching is such a tough decision. Even throwing free agent money could be frowned upon.

 

[jimmer]

 

maybe throw in Duffey or Gibson

Dodgers have no need for bottom rotation/AAA starter material.  They have a very good staff now and lots of quality arms in the system.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If Sano was blocking an equally tantalizing prospect that might be a bit more flexible than 3B/1B/DH as an outcome, then yes, I'd think about shopping him. 

 

The problem is that he's not. 3B in this system is barren, and Plouffe is not only going to be overpaid (due to arb), he's also a free agent shortly and there's no one to replace him with if he leaves.  I don't trade Sano. 

 

Trades like this are from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. 3B is not a position of long-term strength right now in the org.  That may change at some point, and if it does, then you can talk about trading Sano... but it's not now.  The kid had a difficult Sophomore season and was still decent.  Yeah, he needs to work on his defense, and yes, the Twins did him no favors there. But personally, I put his name in ink at 3B for the next season and punt this decision as it really doesn't need to be made.

 

I also make it clear that he needs to spend lots of time working on his defensive mechanics this offseason.

[mazeville]

 

There's no way the Dodgers would give up Urias for Dozier in a 1-for-1 trade. I think Dozier's got more value to the Twins than what they could get in a trade. 

 

You know that the Twins lost over 100 games despite Dozier's career year, right? And that the Twins have someone who could step in and play second base?

 

So I don't buy the idea that Dozier has more value to the Twins than they could get in a trade. 

[adorduan]

 

If Sano was blocking an equally tantalizing prospect that might be a bit more flexible than 3B/1B/DH as an outcome, then yes, I'd think about shopping him. 

 

The problem is that he's not. 3B in this system is barren, and Plouffe is not only going to be overpaid (due to arb), he's also a free agent shortly and there's no one to replace him with if he leaves.  I don't trade Sano. 

 

Trades like this are from a position of strength to address a position of weakness. 3B is not a position of long-term strength right now in the org.  That may change at some point, and if it does, then you can talk about trading Sano... but it's not now.  The kid had a difficult Sophomore season and was still decent.  Yeah, he needs to work on his defense, and yes, the Twins did him no favors there. But personally, I put his name in ink at 3B for the next season and punt this decision as it really doesn't need to be made.

 

I also make it clear that he needs to spend lots of time working on his defensive mechanics this offseason.

Well, that kind of depends of it you really think Sano is a viable 3rd baseman.  Some of don't think he is.

[Loosey]

I think both Urias and Sano have MVP/Cy Young potential at their positions.  Both have question marks moving forward.  Sano needs to prove he can be a viable defensive player and Urias is young, and like any pitcher is one pitch away from major surgery.  

 

I threw this idea out there because I was torn on what I would feel if the deal was done, which usually means it isn't too one sided one way or the other.

 

I love having Sano on this team and I think with a full healthy season and true position for a full  year he could reach his potential in 2017.  But then I think what would it be like to possibly have #1 and #2 starters under the age of 23 (Urias and Berrios) years old with years of control and possibly be dominant for years.  Remember when Johan was here, I pretty much assumed as long as the Twins offense could muster 3 runs they were going to win.

 

Now imagine if you have two of those guys in your rotation. 

[mazeville]

Late on this topic, but I'll say this:

 

If I'm the Twins I don't do that trade without at least another significant piece. But maybe that's just me. Either way, I'm not all that sure either team makes the deal.

 

But, I WOULD like to see the Twins make a bold stroke. Most of us look at the roster and consider some combination of deals involving Brian Dozier and Ervin Santana. But teams that lose 100 games and at least 90 games in five of six years should not be too closed minded when it comes to making trades. 

[HitInAPinch]

I wouldn't even consider trading Sano until after his sophomore season.

[jimmer]

I wouldn't even consider trading Sano until after his sophomore season.

he was 3rd in RoY voting in 2015. Wasnt last year his sophomore year? :-)

[HitInAPinch]

 

he was 3rd in RoY voting in 2015. Wasnt last year his sophomore year? :-)

1st full year last this year.  2015 was 80 games.  I'm giving him a little slack here   

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I am not sure if any of you are aware, but it has come to my attention the Twins need help with finding pitching. What the Twins do have is a plethora of young hitters. Some proven, others not so much.

 

So to get young pitching the Twins will have to trade from this area in my opinion.

 

Then this trade idea popped into my head, it's probably outlandish, it's 1 day away from the off-season and I wish the Twins were one of the two teams playing in game 7 of the World Series.

 

If an Independent Trade Maker Upper, "ITMU" (made up job, but I would apply if real) drop this trade on each teams doorstep does either one say no instantly? Or do other pieces get added to make it happen?

 

Here it is: Miguel Sano for Julio Urias

 

The reason the ITMU came up with this trade is because the Dodgers currently have Chase Utley at 2nd base and is old. Justin Turner is a Free Agent but could move to 2nd if re-signed. That leaves 3rd base open. Miguel Sano (sort of) plays 3rd base. The Twins need pitching as I mentioned in the opening paragraph. They also have some repetitiveness in the infield that could be solved with this trade

 

My question is what pieces are needed to be added to make something this fake deal happen? Or is the Independent Trade Maker Upper out of his/her mind for thinking the Dodgers would even consider this?

i think the itmu is bat-poop crazy. However aggressive ideas such as this do need to be pitched in order to make real change in this organization.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You know that the Twins lost over 100 games despite Dozier's career year, right? And that the Twins have someone who could step in and play second base?

 

So I don't buy the idea that Dozier has more value to the Twins than they could get in a trade.

very true that Dozier has more trade value to the Twins, esp Falvey/Levine, than playing value. I don't think the Dodgers would do that deal 1:1 either. Dozier has probably peaked

[Brandon Warne]

What's the net gain here? Sure the pitching is better, but it's a huge gash out of the hitting. I'm not sure that's all that helpful. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

What's the net gain here? Sure the pitching is better, but it's a huge gash out of the hitting. I'm not sure that's all that helpful. 

 

How is our pitching going to get better without adding talent from outside the organization?

[Brandon Warne]

 

How is our pitching going to get better without adding talent from outside the organization?

 

That obviously has to happen, but if it's at the expense of the organization's best hitter.....that's not going to move the needle much. I'm not sure what was controversial about me saying that.

[TheLeviathan]

 

That obviously has to happen, but if it's at the expense of the organization's best hitter.....that's not going to move the needle much. I'm not sure what was controversial about me saying that.

 

It might move the needle significantly over the long term.  You seem to be saying our short term choices are: Kyle Gibson/Berrios/Hughes bounce back vs. trade for help.

 

I see both options as terrible in the short term and only one offering hope for the long term.  So, that makes my decision fairly easy.

[Mike Sixel]

That obviously has to happen, but if it's at the expense of the organization's best hitter.....that's not going to move the needle much. I'm not sure what was controversial about me saying that.

You seem to be acting like they can go from worst team to playoffs....they aren't making the playoffs next year. Should they just never trade for the future? If not now, when would you ever?

[ashbury]

What's the net gain here? Sure the pitching is better, but it's a huge gash out of the hitting. I'm not sure that's all that helpful. 

I think what's unstated here is an assumption that Dozier will perform again like 2016, and not revert to 2015 and before. If the latter happens, a similar "gash" in the offense occurs whether you trade him or not.

 

Polanco, through a different mix of skills, has the potential to approximately replicate 2015 Dozier right away, and also has some further upside.

 

Instead of just letting Dozier revert, which is the $64M question of course (it could be he's reached a new permanent plateau), a trade buffers that risk by acquiring some kind of significant talent at a different position such as starting pitcher.

 

And, I keep repeating, Polanco isn't a long term answer at SS.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think what's unstated here is an assumption that Dozier will perform again like 2016, and not revert to 2015 and before. If the latter happens, a similar "gash" in the offense occurs whether you trade him or not. Polanco, through a different mix of skills, has the potential to approximately replicate 2015 Dozier. Instead of just letting Dozier revert, which is the $64M question of course, a trade buffers that risk by acquiring some kind of talent at a different position such as starting pitcher.

I think you are talking about 2 different players.

This thread is about a proposed trade of Sano, not Dozier.

[ashbury]

I think you are talking about 2 different players.

This thread is about a proposed trade of Sano, not Dozier.

Aw crap.

 

Never, as the saying goes, mind.

[Mr. Brooks]

Aw crap.

 

Never, as the saying goes, mind.

Don't worry, I'm sure there is a similar stance in one of the Dozier trade threads.

Copy/paste, done.