When should the Twins consider sending Buxton to the Minors?

[NDTimIrish]

Mastrioianni is my favorite player. Can run, good glove, hit a little, see some pitches. He plays the game the right way. He's also a good clubhouse guy which sounds like what this team needs now that Hunter left. Nobody is dancing anymore. I say bring up Mastrioianni and give Buxton and maybe Sano some more seasoning in the minors. We have some games to make up. Can't let the lead get to big with teams like the Royals and White Sox.

[ashbury]

 

I don't think an adjustment to MLB breaking balls is surprising.  He is from a small town in GA where the competition was not very good.  Law, who was very high on Buxton did say pre-draft "Baseball in Appling was not the worst high school baseball I have ever seen, but it was not good at all". 

 

He has a total of 60 games in AA and 13 games in AAA.  He did also have a concussion less than two years ago. I am not sure why Span, Morneau, and Mauer get a two year pass but Buxton does not.

I have been thinking that Buxton's not right. I believe teams keep metrics on things like depth perception, which we're of course not going to be privy to. I'd give a nickel to see his.

 

He could still be a year away from his two eyes working together properly, at a high professional level I mean. If ever. At least, that remains my working hypothesis on how he can look so bad on breaking pitches down.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

And Mastroinanni is healthy this year.  Runs like a deer and steals bases. I'd like to see him up here, nothing to lose IMO.

...except interest. Gonna lose a lot of interest. 

[Halsey Hall]

 

...except interest. Gonna lose a lot of interest. 

Who's going to lose the interest?

 

If he comes up and helps contribute to some wins, there'll be no interest lost. Park needs AAA as does Kepler. There's room.

[jbissell]

 

I am guessing when Santana comes back, Buxton is going down if he does not improved.  Then maybe, send Kepler down and sign Darin Mastrioianni to the 40 man and call him up.  I do not want to see DM playing but we may be better off with Buxton and Kepler (especially) in the minors.

 

Buxton is not hitting worth a darn, but the rest of the team other than Mauer is equally horrendous! Since Buxton is not the reason the team is 0-8, and since he's still an asset defensively, I dont think its a good idea to send him to AAA. I agree with others here. Let him take his lumps against big league pitching.

[d-mac]

 

I'm pretty sure he means one guy is a 30 year old journyman 4th OFer who owns a career slash below replacement level, while the other is considered the #1-2 prospect in baseball and has all of 8 games played so far this season. If we're choosing which below replacement player to take, my vote is for the high upside prospect....

 

So being severely overmatched at the major league level is going to have no negative effects on his development? I find that incredibly naive. 

[Dantes929]

 

  

 

He has a total of 60 games in AA and 13 games in AAA.  He did also have a concussion less than two years ago. I am not sure why Span, Morneau, and Mauer get a two year pass but Buxton does not.

I think there is a cumulative effect to multiple concussions but this is a very good point.    

IMO, the only mishandling of Hicks was to let him try to be a switch hitter in the first place and batting him leadoff to start his career against the best rotation in baseball at the time.    I never wanted him sent down because he was still getting on base and doing good things.   Once he said I have no idea what I am doing from the left side that it was time to make a change.    When Crain said I have no idea where my fastball is going it was time to to make a change.

If the difference between major league and minor league stuff is so vast I don't know how facing minor league stuff is going to help him.   If he is still going up there with a plan and is seeing a lot of pitches this is a worthwhile thing.    If he is going up there without a plan or clue and feels lost then a change should be made.       

[Dantes929]

 

There are plenty of national writers who had doubts about Buxton's bat ever being all that good........

 

I would think he should be up through the end of the month. If he's not hitting, I'd send him down.

How in H is he the consensus #1 prospect in all of baseball for 10 years running ( or does it just seem like that long) with this kind of doubt by plenty of national writers?     5 tools are meaningless if the most important tool is doubtful.   He should be asked if he has lost faith in what he is doing and if so, be sent down.    Until or unless that happens I will assume he is learning on the job and seeing major league pitching for an extended amount of time will pay off.

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe "plenty" is the wrong word. Several.......

[longstrangetrip]

 

I agree the decision point is whatever is best for Buxton.  It seems like his at bats are improving.  Every game it seems like he has an at bat where he is seeing 7-9 pitches, fouling off a bunch of two strike pitches, etc.  If we feel like we are getting closer to MLB at bats, sooner or later it will translate to results.

 

From my non-professional eye, it seems like the biggest adjustment he needs to make is stop Mauering it (taking the fastball on the outside of the plate for strike one).  That seems to happen almost every at bat.  He should sit on that pitch and drive it somewhere.  If he does that he won't be behind in the count and eating a steady diet of sliders.   And it would force pitchers to adjust.

I like this take.  I don't know whether it's best for BB to spend some more time in the majors, but it seems like Santana's injury gives the Twins a chance to bide their time before making their decision.  If he  is still hopelessly overmatched by the time Santana returns, I would send him down.  While I agree with Tobi's observation that BB's at bats are improving and he is seeing more pitches, he is still perhaps the worst 2-strike hitter in all of baseball.  He has now struck out 13 of the 14 times he has faced a 2-strike count this season...that's unbelievable!  He clearly is not picking up the type of pitch and location quickly enough, and the Twins need to decide if he should develop this skill in the majors or in AAA.  There is a real danger, though, of permanently damaging his confidence if they continue to allow him to be totally overmatched against big league pitching.

[tobi0040]

I like this take. I don't know whether it's best for BB to spend some more time in the majors, but it seems like Santana's injury gives the Twins a chance to bide their time before making their decision. If he is still hopelessly overmatched by the time Santana returns, I would send him down. While I agree with Tobi's observation that BB's at bats are improving and he is seeing more pitches, he is still perhaps the worst 2-strike hitter in all of baseball. He has now struck out 13 of the 14 times he has faced a 2-strike count this season...that's unbelievable! He clearly is not picking up the type of pitch and location quickly enough, and the Twins need to decide if he should develop this skill in the majors or in AAA. There is a real danger, though, of permanently damaging his confidence if they continue to allow him to be totally overmatched against big league pitching.

I agree it is tough. Two sides here. One says you can't ruin his confidence and the other says he won't adjust to a Sale or Rodon slider in AAA.

 

I think wisdom lies in both. I say give him a month and his approach needs to be more aggressive early in counts to avoid 2 strikes and to improve at breaking ball recognition, especially when he has two strikes.

 

Another adjustment would be to lay off two strike pitches that he thinks are low fastballs. From what I can tell, they are almost exclusively sliders.

[Ultima Ratio]

Probably on a rehab assignment when coming of the DL for this wrist injury.

[KirbyDome89]

 

So being severely overmatched at the major league level is going to have no negative effects on his development? I find that incredibly naive. 

Whats naive is thinking that supplementing the roster with below replacement level AAAA or AAA players is going to bring about winning baseball. Have you already forgotten 2012-2014? The roster was full of those players and everybody (but you apparently) knows how those seasons turned out. If the struggles continue then he'll have to eventually go down but they've played 8 games! Its going to take much more time than that to truly tell if he needs to be back in the minors.

 

Hopefully this hand injury isn't serious....

[USAFChief]

I realize people have strong opinions on this, and that's fine.  

 

Please don't take it out on each other, however.  We can disagree without characterizing other posters.

 

 

[Dantes929]

Buxton has a better OPS than Sano and Rosario.  Just sayin..

[d-mac]

 

Whats naive is thinking that supplementing the roster with below replacement level AAAA or AAA players is going to bring about winning baseball. Have you already forgotten 2012-2014? The roster was full of those players and everybody (but you apparently) knows how those seasons turned out. If the struggles continue then he'll have to eventually go down but they've played 8 games! Its going to take much more time than that to truly tell if he needs to be back in the minors.

 

Hopefully this hand injury isn't serious....

 

You assume I expect this team to win. They aren't going to win no matter what. So let's not force young players to the majors before they are ready. Everybody loves to compare Buxton's upside to Andrew McCutchen. Do you know how many AAA plate appearances he had before he was called up? 881. The Pirates were horrible the years he was in AAA. And they had been for a long time. I guarantee that McCutchen would not be the player he is today if he had been called up to start the year in the majors in 2008 after just 72 plate appearances in AAA to that point. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I agree it is tough. Two sides here. One says you can't ruin his confidence and the other says he won't adjust to a Sale or Rodon slider in AAA.

I think wisdom lies in both. I say give him a month and his approach needs to be more aggressive early in counts to avoid 2 strikes and to improve at breaking ball recognition, especially when he has two strikes.

Another adjustment would be to lay off two strike pitches that he thinks are low fastballs. From what I can tell, they are almost exclusively sliders.

 

I think we need to realize that there are a lot of valuable lessons than can be learned in the minors.  Breaking pitches in AAA won't be as good as the ones in MLB, but they should in general be a bit more difficult than AA.  Sometimes there's something to be said with putting someone at an appropriate skill level and letting them adjust there.  Buxton is what, 22?  22 in AAA is hardly a bad thing.  It just means he's one step away from the majors. 

 

I can tell you what's bad for everyone though... letting him sit in MLB when there's still a clear talent gap expecting him to just figure it out.  It rarely works and even in the best case it means service time wasted with well below average performance.  I don't care where he is on the lists, he still needs to progress at a pace that he can learn.  I wouldn't send my 12 year old son off to a college calculus class and simply say that he should be there b/c he's going to have to learn it some day.  I wouldn't put Buxton in MLB at this point either. 

[jsteve96]

 

You may lead in some polls, but you still trail after considering superdelegates.

thank god i trail, no one likes a communist.. although no one should like the liars beating me in super delegates :/

[KirbyDome89]

 

You assume I expect this team to win. They aren't going to win no matter what. So let's not force young players to the majors before they are ready. Everybody loves to compare Buxton's upside to Andrew McCutchen. Do you know how many AAA plate appearances he had before he was called up? 881. The Pirates were horrible the years he was in AAA. And they had been for a long time. I guarantee that McCutchen would not be the player he is today if he had been called up to start the year in the majors in 2008 after just 72 plate appearances in AAA to that point. 

I disagree they're definitely capable of having a winning season and building on last year. The expectation is to continue moving forward and improving. Being awful and thinking everything will suddenly click and they'll be contenders for 5+ years isn't realistic. 

Buxton isn't McCutchen, or any other player. There is no set amount of time any player has to spend in the minors. Some never see AAA and have successful MLB careers. McCutchen may have needed all those games or none of them, there isn't an answer for that, and that is exactly my point. If Buxton needs more time in the minors then let him prove it, but 9 games isn't enough to say one way or the other. 

[DrNeau]

Call up Palka.

[Linus]

3 years ago Buxton was hitting crappy small town high school pitching. He needs to be judged by progress - if he is still flailing in a month send him to Rochester. But if you do that it has to be for a substantial time period. A 3 week hot streak means nothing.

[Boom Boom]

Can't believe anyone wants to see Mastroianni again. Remember the Alex Presley, Jordan Schafer, Erik Komatsu, Clete Thomas days?

 

Yeah, me neither... but that's what you're asking for by calling up D.Mast.

[alarp33]

In the Byron Buxton predictions page, most (myself included) figured he would struggle for a month or two.  Personally I don't believe he is going to improve at AAA, I think he just needs at bats at the Major League level.  Now if they determine he's completely losing his confidence, etc... then by all means it should be a consideration, but I don't see or hear that being a concern. 

 

If the team was 4-5 and Buxton's numbers through 7 games (basically all he's played) were the same, would we be having this discussion?  No? Then we shouldn't be having it now. His development (especially as the playoffs become more and more of a pipe dream) should be most important. 

 

I think we'll all look back on this come August and laugh.  

 

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

If Buxton heads to Rochester, he's going to light it up. He's going to make a joke out of AAA, and it's not going to really do much for his development. That's my prediction. I say keep him up, let him see as many pitches as he can. He's either going to figure it out or he won't. . He's already aced the prospect exam.